Defenseman steps up - unclear about this phrase

[Rumblefish 1]

Hi everybody,

When you guys hear the phrase "defenseman needs to step up" or "one of you guys needs to step up on the forward" what does that mean to you? I play defense in rec league adult hockey.

I believe I'm leaving too much gap and backing up too far into my own end before making a play on the forward. But by "stepping up" does this mean to make the pivot on the forward sooner or does it actually mean to stop moving backwards and challenge him by moving forwards (or just stopping). Seems risky and you'd get beat a lot. It's rec league so stepping up can't mean putting a hit on him.

I've heard the phrase "step up" on him a lot but I'm actually unsure about what that means.

Please share your understanding of what the phrase means. Many thanks

[BenderHockey 127]

In a nutshell it means eliminate the gap, and force him to make a play. It could mean attempting a pokecheck, or forcing him to the outside. Basically, it means like you said, stop moving backwards and challenge him. If you get beat, you get beat. Learn from it, but don't be afraid to do it again.

[chippa13 1844]

If you do it, you have to be reasonably certain that you can get the man or the puck. Coaches will tell you to forget the puck and make sure to take the man because if you go for the puck and miss then the guy is gone. Also, be sure you've got support coming back from the forwards so that if the guy gets by you then he will not be in alone but will have a backchecker right on him.

[goblue9280 33]

As you guessed, more than likely if you're being told to step up while on defense, it generally means you need to challenge the attacking player(s) sooner. You're probably getting too deep, and thus turning into a screen for your goalie.

[hockeymass 11]

Like everyone else has said, it means to challenge the attacking player. If you have another defensive layer behind you, take the man. If you don't, try to pinch him outside.

[Chadd 916]

It depends on the situation, it could mean a variety of things.

If gap control is an issue, then having less distance between you and the attacking forward is probably what they want. My philosophy on that is to make sure you take away the middle of the ice and force them to the outside. Where possible, I line up my outside shoulder with his inside shoulder and give him the outside. At least you have a chance to recover if he goes wide. If he is in the middle of the ice, I try to force him to his backhand.

[AfftonDad 88]

Agreed, the fact that they are saying this to you probably means you are playing too conservatively, i.e. too much gap, backing in too much. On the other hand, there are some people (generally people who haven't played hockey very long) who think that it is pretty much ALWAYS the defensman's job to play the attacker at the blue line. This is not the case. There ARE however, certain circumstances when it is appropriate. A couple that come to mind is if the player is not very skilled or if the player is bobling/mishandling the puck. Another would be if the defenders outnumber the attackers. Another would be if you you can sense that making him make a move at the blue line will make one of his hard charging partner's go offsides. Another is if you are near him at the blue line and he is completely taking the outside route on you, in other words you have the boards there with you which are limiting his options and you have set up your angle such that you can back into (hip check) him into the boards. Stepping up doesn't necessarily mean slamming on the breaks and changing directions to attack him. This is frequently an overcommittment that the forward is waiting for and trying to bait you into. You can sometimes effectivly "step up" by just applying some breaks and thereby suddenly reducing the gap and taking away time and space from him. Having said all that, if I am defending an "normal" rush agaist skilled players, I will probably not end up "playing him" until the puck is across our blue line.

Other things you can do to help reduce the gap is carry your stick a little bit closer to you. This causes the foward to think he has more space than he actually has and will hopefully bring him in a little closer. Then at just the right moment you can extend for the poke/sweep (don't over commit though). Another thing that I tell the kids I coach is that fakes aren't just for forwards. Often times the foward is waiting for you to "step up" so that he can deke around you. As a defensemen skating backwards against such a guy it is often useful to fake stepping up with a little movement of your skate/leg or with a little fake poke check so that he thinks you are stepping up and makes his move. It's all about getting the other guy to commit first.

[AfftonDad 88]

I just re-read the original post... to answer the question that you asked about the pivot (we generally call this the "turn and burn" on my son's team), I don't think they are referring to that. You know your own skills probably better than the guys you are playing with so you probably have a better sense whether a "turn and burn" or a "step-up" is appropriate for your skillset relative to the skillset of the guy who is skating against you and the circumstances of that particular rush. However, you may need to push the envelope some. If you can take the puck from the attacker with a "step up" or stop him dead in his tracks or even force him to pass before he wants to that is probably better than a "turn and burn". But a correctly executed "turn and burn" in which you force him into the corner is WAAAAAY better than an over committed/failed "step up".

[chippa13 1844]

If you watch a pro game you will almost never see a defenseman "turn and burn". Getting turned is something you want to avoid as much as possible since it puts your back to the rest of the play. Also, a good forward will see a defenseman starting his pivot and can cut inside suddenly with a clear path to the net.

[AfftonDad 88]

"Getting turned" as i know it is when you let the forward get you turned around in open ice, generally turning the wrong way from the way you should have turned. I'm talking about when a forward is coming with speed, the defensemen is giving him the outside as he is supposed to, defensemen has the proper angle so that the foward can't cut back and turns with him because he doesn't want to just let him skate by and he isn't close enough to hit him. A lot of times immediately after the pivot you can angle him into the boards. Worse case you can generally stay with him into the corner. I just happened to be on the phone with a former minor leaguer as I was typing this, and he said absolutely, "turn and burn" is always better than a misplayed "step up". I'll have to watch more cafefully, but I'm pretty sure I see it happen in the pro's many times every game.

Getting turned is something you want to avoid as much as possible since it puts your back to the rest of the play

Actually... it puts you exactly where your always supposed to be on defense when covering the puck carrier, between the puck and the net,

[AfftonDad 88]

Admittedly, Russia DOES score!

[chippa13 1844]

If you don't have the play to step up then you continue to force the approaching wide while maintaining your backwards skating. Pivoting and/or crossing over are the moments when a forward can make a play to gain separation.

[AfftonDad 88]

If you don't pivot as the gap closes (assuming you aren't going to body him) he is going to blow past you. Even the best backwards skaters can't skate as fast backwards as they can forwards. And if you are still skating backwards "in front of" him(deeper than him) by the time he gets near the corner he is definately going to cut back on you because you won't be between him and the net. One of the reasons for the pivot is because he has gone deep and you want to be between him and the net. If he can cut back across your back to the inside as you are pivoting, you are pivoting too early. If he can cut back across your front after you have pivoted, you are pivoting too late. I agree that one of the best plays in hockey is when you continue to skate backwards with the guy going outside until the point that you can deliver a crushing hip check on the boards, but the times that it is set up perfect for that is not very frequent. THAT is something you don't see that often in the NHL anymore... crushing hip checks on the boards. The crowd goes wild when it happens though.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[adam14 182]

in regards to the canada clip, he got beat because he turned to face the man after he crossed away from him, creating more of a gap, had he turned when he was doing cross overs towards the russian he wouldn't have gotten beat.

[akravetz 29]

Okay, I am thrilled for this post. i am a newbie who is a converted D-man. Love the position but have only been playing for a month at the position and a year in a no-check league. Question. What does it mean to "pinch" a guy at the blue line. i wold imagine it means to block his route out of the zone and/or trap the puck before it goes off sides? Second, while I am not the slowest, I am NOT the fastest going backwards. I find that I'll challenge up near the offensive blue line, or at least at center ice but if my other D-man isn't behind me, I turn and make a dash back to my end. Thoughts?

[Chadd 916]

If you don't pivot as the gap closes (assuming you aren't going to body him) he is going to blow past you. Even the best backwards skaters can't skate as fast backwards as they can forwards. And if you are still skating backwards "in front of" him(deeper than him) by the time he gets near the corner he is definately going to cut back on you because you won't be between him and the net. One of the reasons for the pivot is because he has gone deep and you want to be between him and the net. If he can cut back across your back to the inside as you are pivoting, you are pivoting too early. If he can cut back across your front after you have pivoted, you are pivoting too late. I agree that one of the best plays in hockey is when you continue to skate backwards with the guy going outside until the point that you can deliver a crushing hip check on the boards, but the times that it is set up perfect for that is not very frequent. THAT is something you don't see that often in the NHL anymore... crushing hip checks on the boards. The crowd goes wild when it happens though.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

When the gap closes, you make body contact. The key is not giving the guy enough open space for him to be able to wind up to full speed. If you give up too much space early or don't control your closing rate well, you're screwed.

Okay, I am thrilled for this post. i am a newbie who is a converted D-man. Love the position but have only been playing for a month at the position and a year in a no-check league. Question. What does it mean to "pinch" a guy at the blue line. i wold imagine it means to block his route out of the zone and/or trap the puck before it goes off sides? Second, while I am not the slowest, I am NOT the fastest going backwards. I find that I'll challenge up near the offensive blue line, or at least at center ice but if my other D-man isn't behind me, I turn and make a dash back to my end. Thoughts?

I tend to pinch down when either I can get to the puck before the other guy or when he won't have full control over it when I get there. The two best places to challenge are your own blue line or just before the red line and you can only do that if you have support. The goal there is to either take the puck away or create an icing of off side play. That said, you're better off making a mistake at 100% than getting caught changing your mind. The one thing you never want to do as a defenseman is stand at the blue line when someone for the other team has the puck and has time to make the play without pressure.

[flyers10 57]

Admittedly, Russia DOES score!

What do the mean at the end of this video by "J stroke not C-cut"?

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

I'd argue if the forward forced you to pivot, he's probably beat you.

I tell my D they should probably have about a two-stick-length gap in the neutral zone and should close it around the blue line. You basically pace the forward and angle them to the boards and close in on their body. You always want to go from the inside (center ice) out (the boards). Watch their chest, not the puck and "step up" or "challenge them." The problem I see with a lot of younger players is that they get caught up watching the puck or they're afraid to commit. If the forward leaves the puck out there and you can poke check, great, some are better at it than others. They'll continue to back up towards the goalie and let the forward skate in and use them as a screen to take a shot.

As for beer league, where it's non-checking, you don't have to level the guy, you can usually let them skate in to you and hold your ground. You don't have to clean his clock, or knock him over, just don't let him blow by you. Kind of like gently slowing them down. If your forwards are backchecking or your defensive partner comes in and gets the puck, it's great. I've also found if you stay on top of the wings in the neutral zone, it's much easier to pick them off as they pivot to head forward than sitting back and letting them gain some momentum.

Pinching is stepping up in the offensive zone, essentially. The only time you do it is if you're positive you can beat the wing to the puck or if you can stop it. All or nothing. Pinching also means the weakside D should probably start to pull back and a high forward should support. If you have a lead in the game, I'd recommend playing conservatively and not pinching.

[AfftonDad 88]

What do the mean at the end of this video by "J stroke not C-cut"?

Here is the text that the creator of the video put with it...

Defense must practice defensive skating skills. When playing a rush they need to be able to establish good gap control both vertical and horizontal. This means using your stick and body position to steer the attacker to the outside. Lining up the defenders outside shoulder with the attackers inside shoulder is recommended although at higher levels many coaches suggest lining up the inside leg with the crotch of the attacker. Once the gap is established the defender must stride backwards rather than cross over. The cross over gives up time and space and does not establish gap control. While striding the defender may take the attacker out along the boards leading with the stick. This requires an efficient pivot accelerating towards the puck carrier to contain them or finish the check separating them from the puck while maintaining defensive side. The Mohawk pivot (heel to heel) is most efficient as the defender uses the power from their knee bend and their weight over their driving skate allowing them to accelerate as they pivot. Players who cross over and pivot while crossing over lose power and are unable to accelerate losing time and space. This is evident in this clip. Many Elite players have not mastered the skating skills to play defensive situations and even they require deliberate progressive practice. Professional teams often have a skating coach to work on this at their camps. Coaches may help their players by spending time with the D on the specific skating skills and tactics required for their position. There is a need to work this at all levels, from minor hockey to major Junior and the Pros.

He doesn't mention the J Stroke in the text and I have never heard that term (outside of canoeing). I sent him an email asking him what it is. If he replies to me (a complete stranger), I"ll let you know what he says a J Stroke is. If he doesn't answer I'll ask some Northern Edge instructors in about a month when my son goes to a camp with them.

The only time you do it is if you're positive you can beat the wing to the puck or if you can stop it. All or nothing.

When in doubt... get out.

I'd argue if the forward forced you to pivot, he's probably beat you.

I'd argue that if I have forced him to the outside or into the corner, I have beat him.

[AfftonDad 88]

I wanted to make sure I wasn't loosing my mind so I just re-watched the first two periods of last nights Blues/Predators game, counting the number of strong side defensmen pivoting towards the boards against a puck carrier going to the outside on offensive zone entries. I didn't count any pivots that were done to retrieve dump ins. There were 7 in the first period and 11 in the second period. I did notice that there weren't as many attempts to carry the puck in around the defensmen to the outside as I thought there would be. There is A LOT of dump and chase and a lot of passing as soon the blue line is gained (big difference from how pick-up and even men's leagues games are played around here).

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

I'd argue that if I have forced him to the outside or into the corner, I have beat him.

To an extent, definitely. But if they can turn you going outside, drop the shoulder and drive to the net, it's very tough to stop them. Can hope to drive them into or behind the net and not take a penalty.

[AfftonDad 88]

I'm not sure I understand it, but here is Coach Kozak's reply on what a j stroke is.

Cross square is an adjustment I made when working with an NHL D man added to the Olympic team in 1988. He could not Mohawk pivot and teaching him to cross over but square (skates parallel and up ice) he was in a natural mohak position. If he turned as he crossed over he would lose power, time and space like in this clip. Players need to learn these skill when they are 10 to 12 years old. It is difficult to teach an old dog new tricks (fundamentals). There are a number of links on this site that illustrate all of skills and tactics to help coaches and players.

J stroke is a new term used by power skating teachers. When a D is skating fw and has to transition into BW skating to play a rush his stoke is more of a J where he uses a snowplow to initiate into BW skating rather than a c cut. The j creates a braking force and a pushing force to transition into a BW stride. Now gap control is necessary to play the 1 on 1. Most d at any level can not stride BW efficiently to set and maintain a gap steering the puck carrier to the outside ie d outside shoulder to fws inside shoulder using the stick to steer him to the outside. Theoretically the defender would execute a Mohawk pivot ( heels together) to pivot and take the fw out along the wall. These fundamentals are not taught and as a result the d usually cross over when they pivot and get beat. Standing up the attacker along the boards will get the job done and at times it is the best thing to do. Teaching how to play a 1 on 1 requires teaching the tactical skating (transition, stride and Mohawk pivot) and mastering them so that they can play the rush effectively. The term c cut implies that the skater uses a stroke push like the letter c (toe of the blade) and J implies push with the whole blade in A 45 degree direction increasing the force to stride BW in order to set the gap and play the rush. Hope this makes sense. Your question is appreciated. The key point is for coaches to respect the importance of teaching Individual skating skills as wells individual tactical skills in order to execute in all game situations especially 1 on 1. A d should never get beat on a 1 on 1 if he has developed his defensive tactical skating and stick skills. Keep the attacker on the outside and force a turnover using the stick or body.

[chippa13 1844]

If you read your last post, the "writer" states essentially that most D don't skate backwards well enough to set and maintain a gap and seal off the puck carrier. That is the problem with most of what you're posting. When I was coaching I forced my defensemen to develop their backward skating in practice so that they didn't have to cheat and pivot to keep up with the puck carrier and make a play.

Proper gaps and positioning while skating backward will force a puck carrier to either dump the puck or into a low percentage play trying to beat the defenseman 1 on 1.

[AfftonDad 88]

He says... Most d at any level can not stride BW efficiently to set and maintain a gap steering the puck carrier to the outside

You probably are just better at motivating your players than he is.

http://www.phdhockey.ca/staff.html (He is the one named Wally Kozak)

[chippa13 1844]

Nope, just realize that everything in this game comes from skating, not ignoring it for shortcuts that put your player at a disadvantage by putting his back to the rest of the ice when trying to contain a forward rush down his side of the ice.

If I had a dollar for every "pro development" school run by a guy who thinks his resume makes him a genius in all facets of the game then I'd be a wealthy man.

Since this has now degenerated into an agree to disagree moment with nothing more to be accomplished, I'll bid adieu to this thread.