Bauer acquires Cascade

[ArrogantOwl 7]

They better not mess with my Pro7s.

[hunterphfr 12]

As it has been pointed out, that's not what happened with Mission ice hockey gear. Hell, they have even since come out with a third Bauer product line since they canned the mission ice hockey line.

I play in Florida, which means tremendous heat and humidity. I still miss the ventilation from my Intake. I'd buy an NME tomorrow if Bauer put one on the shelf. Bauer killed the Intake and NME helmets, Pitch3 holders and steel(best stock steel on the market and innovative customizable holder) and other truly innovative products from Mission. Like JR said all they kept were the products they had limited options and limted success with in their own line. They have a huge marketing blitz on the benefits of RE-AKT's protective properties and techknology and they've pushed the purchase point of a helmet to $200. They'll kill the M11.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

I'm compiling the list - any more questions?

[AIREAYE 248]

What role will Mark Messier play in this new relationship?

[talkintothemike 4]

I'm compiling the list - any more questions?

JR, I think you have all the basiscs. Most people are just interested in knowing if Bauer will continue to use the 7 technology in hockey and lacrosse helmets. In addition, will Bauer continue with research into improving on the 7 technology for hockey and lacrosse. I know that there are other questions concerning financial info, or helmet customization, but just knowing if they will continue using the 7 technology would be a good start.

Why does this whole announcement make me sick? As others have mentioned, look at what happened with Mission. How about the old "Hefter Helmet" that CCM bought, used the shell design, and then scrapped what was potentially the most important part? How is it possible with all the advances in technology, that in 2012, the vast majority of helmets have VN or EPP? (If these materials are so great, why haven't they been tried in football helmets?) How is it possible that we have advanced more in the last 20 years in gloves and shin pads, than we have in helmets? How is it possible that there isn't public info from a 3rd party testing lab that clearly shows which helmet, or which technology, does the best job of protecting a head from the forces of a blow to the head, from whichever direction/angle?

As citizens we all want clean air and water. The answer to that is continued pollution. As hockey players, or hockey parents, we want heads protected. So when some new type of helmet technology comes along (other than just a variation of VN or EPP), it gets bought up and shelved? Is that really the answer?

Here is a question for Bauer: Is everything really just about the money, or is it possible to actually do the right thing?

[Chadd 916]

How about the old "Hefter Helmet" that CCM bought, used the shell design, and then scrapped what was potentially the most important part?

The shell was the only thing usable from that design, it would never pass certification as it was shown. That was a textbook case of vaporware

[nicholus.h 0]

Couple quotes:

"The acquisition of Cascade increases our presence in North America's fastest-growing team sport (lacrosse), and allows us to expand our product offering in our core hockey business," Bauer Chief Executive Kevin Davis said in a statement.

Bauer plans to use Cascade's head-protection technologies and build on its partnership with Messier to improve player safety through product-development and awareness initiatives, the company said.

http://www.reuters.c...E8HDHB320120613

What do you guys think? Does this change anybody's opinion of what is going to happen? Did they say the same sorts of things with the Mission acquisition?

[althoma1 574]

The letter by Mary-Kay Messier in the News and Events section of the Cascade site is also interesting, but it may just be PR positioning: http://themessierpro.../newsandevents/

I will also continue to lead all efforts associated with the M11 and M11 PRO, including sales, marketing and promotion, in order to fully support the products at retail.

Moving forward, we plan to share relevant Cascade and Bauer technologies to develop the best comprehensive helmet line in the industry.

In addition to our current product line, Bauer expects to expand manufacturing at the facility to offer Bauer-branded helmets with the same quick turn around and custom color options.

[hunterphfr 12]

I'm fairly cynical by nature. A Bauer Re-Akt costs $199.99 on Hockeymonkey, I'm sure Bauer has dumped a slew of R&D and marketing into this new product and it's cutting edge style and version of impact protection. Now Bauer also owns the M11, a helmet that has been on the market for several years, incorporates a rival impact protection that the previous owners entire marketing campaign was based on how much better their impact protection was than anybody else's and I can have this helmet and it's superior protection for only $119.99 at Hockeymonkey.

Ethically, morally and the verbal commitments they've made say they'll keep the M11 alive. Call me skeptical but if it come's from a politician, a major corporation or my wife, I'm not necessarily going to take what they say with a grain of salt. From a business model, money driven decision and their previous actions, I still say they'll kill it.

Hockeymonkey is used for illustrative purposes only, I neither endorse, recommend, nor discourage their use.

[althoma1 574]

In the end, it'll come down to what Bauer thinks will be best for their bottom line. They're a business, not a charity, and they want to make a buck.

With that said, I hope that they'll do some lab testing and if the seven technology is proven to be more effective in some aspects than the technology used in the RE-AKT then they will somehow use that technology in future products.

Bauer already has 3 skate and protective lines. Perhaps they'll expand to two helmet lines and in a year or two come out with another helmet line based on the Cascade seven technology, redesign it and add a few new features - they can then set the price at whatever they feel the market will bear.

The best case scenario would be for them to do extensive testing and use the best protective features of both their existing technology and the technology they're aquiring from Cascade.

Now, based on what we've seen with Mission it does seem more likely that they'll just kill the Cascade hockey line, but one can hope things will be a little different this time.

[jsykes 35]

The biggest problem Bauer faces with keeping the M11 is that by doning so, they admit that Cascade has been doing something better than they have for a lot less money. That what Cascade has been preaching about seven being better than EPP is true and Bauer has been charging more for less protection.

Its a hard pill to swallow and has to be dealt with very gingerly if they plan to keep the M11 around.

By killing it, its a lot easier. They just say they feel their current technology is better and that they're going to use the manufacturing facilities, keep the lax line, and take advantage of the ability to turn custom helmets around really quickly. Its done, Bauer doesnt look like they've been the bad guys and they eliminate some competition.

We'll see what happens and how they deal with it, however, like many people, companies generally choose the easy way out, which doesnt bode well for the Cascade.

[chippa13 1844]

What Bauer could do, if they decide the M11 technology is better, is they could tinker with it slightly, give it some new name, and say that it is something that the synergy of the two companies came up with and not the technology that Bauer kept claiming to be better than.

[Chadd 916]

I just read an article that stated the cascade helmet has double the profit margin of the existing Bauer helmets. They could use this as their basis on new designs and keep only one or two legacy products.

Remember, this is a business.

[raganblink 82]

I just read an article that stated the cascade helmet has double the profit margin of the existing Bauer helmets. They could use this as their basis on new designs and keep only one or two legacy products.

Remember, this is a business.

Which makes sense, I've warrantied so many m11s and csx (Whatever the original cascade was called) its not even funny. Broke shells, stuff literally just falls out, screws permanetly stuck on arrival - they weren't/aren't the most well built things out there.

[hunterphfr 12]

My defensive partner had one that was around a year old, skates around once a week. Sitting on the bench inner workings of the helmet basically fell out while he was trying to nurse it through the game.

Of course my Bauer 9500 split from the top all the way to the base of the occipital area after being hit from behind pretty benignly (wasn't crazy harsh hit) into the boards head first.

[DarkStar50 679]

With that said, I hope that they'll do some lab testing and if the seven technology is proven to be more effective in some aspects than the technology used in the RE-AKT then they will somehow use that technology in future products.

The best case scenario would be for them to do extensive testing and use the best protective features of both their existing technology and the technology they're aquiring from Cascade.

I agree with your points and have to believe Bauer has already done their due diligence with testing on Cascade product. Remember Bauer went to the mat with Cascade regarding advertising claims of the M11 helmet. Everyone in this industry takes everyone else's gear apart to see how they built it. We do it in the shop just to see the guts of the gear.

[AIREAYE 248]

I agree with your points and have to believe Bauer has already done their due diligence with testing on Cascade product. Remember Bauer went to the mat with Cascade regarding advertising claims of the M11 helmet. Everyone in this industry takes everyone else's gear apart to see how they built it. We do it in the shop just to see the guts of the gear.

Absolutely true. If the M11 had anything groundbreaking, it's likely that everybody else already knew or eventually knew about it.

[hunterphfr 12]

Absolutely true. If the M11 had anything groundbreaking, it's likely that everybody else already knew or eventually knew about it.

If the M11 had anything truly revolutionary they'd be knocking it off and copying it already.

[althoma1 574]

If the M11 had anything truly revolutionary they'd be knocking it off and copying it already.

Not without infringing on patents. Now they own said patents of course so we'll have to see what happens in the next few years.

[hunterphfr 12]

Not without infringing on patents. Now they own said patents of course so we'll have to see what happens in the next few years.

Never really stops anybody anymore, look at Kor vs. Torspo, Kor vs. all the companies that tweaked highly moldable boot designs just enough to avoid litigation, Blackstone vs. the other flat bottom sharpeners, Jeep vs. Humvee, Apple vs. Samsung, etc.

A guy I work with has a side business, makes all kind of little fire/military/police items out of nylon webbing and leather. It's a fairly competitive and cut throat industry. Lots of small and big players all stealing each others ideas and products. He doesn't even patent his ideas anymore. It just isn't worth it. To costly, long and difficult to litigate.

A little bit of tweaking and modification and you can get around patents. In many cases they just flat out blatantly ignore the patents and copy the design out right. The only people that win in most lawsuits are the lawyers.

[Dolom1te 0]

A very interesting thing that no-one has commented on yet (i think) is that fact that in Cascade's top of the line lacrosse helmets (Pro7 and CPX-R) the seven tech is used and was the main point of the Pro7 when it came out. So realistically, i think bauer knew all along that the seven tech was legit, cause it would be hard for them to then say "were gonna get rid of the M11 cause the seven tech isn't up to our helmet safety standards, but we're gonna keep it in our lacrosse helmets."

My lacrosse team uses the Pro7's for lacrosse from cascade's custom program and they are very good, i also have the M11 for hockey which i have yet to have a concussion in (6 in bauer helmets). I'm not saying i truly believe the seven tech is concussion proof and better than what bauer has to offer, you could attribute my not getting a concussion in an M11 to the fact that i grew a lot and wasn't getting hit as hard as much, but it has been very good.

like i said before, it's tough for them to get rid of the M11 line saying the seven tech isn't good if they plan on keeping the Pro7 and the CPX-R which both use seven tech as well. It will be interesting to see what happens

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

You're missing the point.

Bauer is not in lacrosse. Nor is there a Maverik helmet - so there isn't a conflict between products.

However, in hockey, there is.

They like the Cascade product - it's a successful lacrosse helmet brand, and that's why they bought them. However, in hockey, they are a competitor.

A very interesting thing that no-one has commented on yet (i think) is that fact that in Cascade's top of the line lacrosse helmets (Pro7 and CPX-R) the seven tech is used and was the main point of the Pro7 when it came out. So realistically, i think bauer knew all along that the seven tech was legit, cause it would be hard for them to then say "were gonna get rid of the M11 cause the seven tech isn't up to our helmet safety standards, but we're gonna keep it in our lacrosse helmets."

My lacrosse team uses the Pro7's for lacrosse from cascade's custom program and they are very good, i also have the M11 for hockey which i have yet to have a concussion in (6 in bauer helmets). I'm not saying i truly believe the seven tech is concussion proof and better than what bauer has to offer, you could attribute my not getting a concussion in an M11 to the fact that i grew a lot and wasn't getting hit as hard as much, but it has been very good.

like i said before, it's tough for them to get rid of the M11 line saying the seven tech isn't good if they plan on keeping the Pro7 and the CPX-R which both use seven tech as well. It will be interesting to see what happens

[romdj 26]

You're missing the point.

Bauer is not in lacrosse. Nor is there a Maverik helmet - so there isn't a conflict between products.

However, in hockey, there is.

They like the Cascade product - it's a successful lacrosse helmet brand, and that's why they bought them. However, in hockey, they are a competitor.

You're missing the point.

Bauer is not in lacrosse. Nor is there a Maverik helmet - so there isn't a conflict between products.

However, in hockey, there is.

They like the Cascade product - it's a successful lacrosse helmet brand, and that's why they bought them. However, in hockey, they are a competitor.

Right but you can't keep the seven technology for lacrosse helmet and ditch the one for hockey, and I think that was Dolom1te's point, that they can't simply cut the m11 line and their technology, because m11 are good protective helmets, therefore shutting it down will not serve the consumer..

[cooperalls 4]

Right but you can't keep the seven technology for lacrosse helmet and ditch the one for hockey, and I think that was Dolom1te's point, that they can't simply cut the m11 line and their technology, because m11 are good protective helmets, therefore shutting it down will not serve the consumer..

They can do whatever they like, it's their company.

Hockey and Lacrosse are different sports, different helmet technologies may work better for one than the other.

Without any third-party (neither Cascade or Bauer) lab test data, and a peer edited study by physicians, it's pretty tough to determine which, if any helmet, is most protective for a given type of impact.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Right but you can't keep the seven technology for lacrosse helmet and ditch the one for hockey, and I think that was Dolom1te's point, that they can't simply cut the m11 line and their technology, because m11 are good protective helmets, therefore shutting it down will not serve the consumer..

Absolutely they can.

ONCE AGAIN -

Bauer Hockey, Maverik Lacrosse and Cascade Sports are all subsidiaries of Bauer Performance Sports.

Bauer is their hockey brand, Maverik is their lacrosse brand, and Cascade is the brand they just picked up, which has products in both sports. Maverik and Cascade don't compete, however Bauer and Cascade do.

The people at Bauer Hockey have absolutely NOTHING to do with Maverik Lacrosse, or Cascade Sports. If they don't want to add a Cascade Hockey helmet to a Bauer Hockey lineup, they don't have to. Why? They have their own. If they decide they don't want to offer any more Cascade Hockey products, that is their choice. One less competitor to worry about.

But seriously, it should be painfully obvious that this was a lacrosse-weighted move. BPS' current offerings with Maverik was everything except a helmet. Now they have one. The question is does it become Maverik or does it stay Cascade...

I'm not trying to come down too hard on you guys, but the truth is, they do not owe anyone anything here. Obviously Cascade liked what BPS had to offer and they decided on letting themselves be bought...

(I do have a theory, but it will never be revealed on here. Would not be the first time it's happened in this industry.)