OHL new rule on fighting

[strosedefence34 175]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19337/ohl-sets-quota-on-fighting-nhl-is-watching

[raganblink 82]

Don't see how it'll make much of a change.

Ten fights is a lot to get to.

So everything will be normal until the player gets his 9th fight, and then after that, wont fight anyone?

[chippa13 1844]

I think it will make the legit enforcers a little more selective. You will probably also see a lot more liberties being taken as the season wears on and guys are right on the line.

[Chadd 916]

Don't see how it'll make much of a change.

Ten fights is a lot to get to.

So everything will be normal until the player gets his 9th fight, and then after that, wont fight anyone?

Teams that believe in that type of game will have to roster an extra one or two of those guys or they will cut one and replace him with another.

I've always been a fan of team toughness. If something happens when you're on the ice, then you go and stand up for your teammate. Don't wait for someone else to come off the bench and try to catch up with someone that will just end up turning turtle or refusing to fight an enforcer anyway.

[chippa13 1844]

That was the other thought that crossed my mind, that teams will simply employ another enforcer, something along the lines of the 7th defenseman, so they can share the load.

[technophile 0]

The old WPHL (which eventually merged into the ECHL, IIRC) handled a similar situation by simply decreasing roster sizes. If you can only dress 18 players, you don't have room on the bench for "pure" enforcers. I think that would be a better solution.

Something similar seems to have happened in the NHL, where if you can't skate at least well enough to be on a checking line, you don't make the team (outside of unusual circumstances). I don't know why the NHL would be concerned; the amount of fighting doesn't seem out of hand (and I honestly don't really care for the fighting -- I understand why it happens, but it's by far one of my least favorite parts of games when it does).

Edit: I also don't understand how the rule is supposed to address something like this: "The Rangers-Devils game last season, where three staged fights broke at the drop of the puck, was a black eye for the league and certainly caused some in-house deliberation at the NHL office." Red herring much? If two teams really don't like each other, or there were shenanigans during a previous game that people are looking to get even for, there's pretty much nothing the NHL can do.

[Chadd 916]

The old WPHL (which eventually merged into the ECHL, IIRC) handled a similar situation by simply decreasing roster sizes. If you can only dress 18 players, you don't have room on the bench for "pure" enforcers. I think that would be a better solution.

Something similar seems to have happened in the NHL, where if you can't skate at least well enough to be on a checking line, you don't make the team (outside of unusual circumstances). I don't know why the NHL would be concerned; the amount of fighting doesn't seem out of hand (and I honestly don't really care for the fighting -- I understand why it happens, but it's by far one of my least favorite parts of games when it does).

Edit: I also don't understand how the rule is supposed to address something like this: "The Rangers-Devils game last season, where three staged fights broke at the drop of the puck, was a black eye for the league and certainly caused some in-house deliberation at the NHL office." Red herring much? If two teams really don't like each other, or there were shenanigans during a previous game that people are looking to get even for, there's pretty much nothing the NHL can do.

The NHL is "interested" because it makes them look like they are doing something about the guys that have experienced severs brain trauma as part of their role as enforcers without the NHL actually doing anything.

[wrangler 157]

Doesn't seem like much, but at least it's a start.

Taking Chadd's point to the NHL level, I could see guys being shuttled up and down as necessary, as the threshold was reached.

[ibeck 38]

TSN said that 90% of OHLers fight less than 10 times a season. It's pretty obvious they're really trying to eliminate that 1 dimensional player. It should be interesting to compare numbers at the end of the season in terms of fighting majors.

[IPv6Freely 2096]

Hate it.

[bigdmac 12]

Hate it.

Agreed. Really don't like this rule one bit

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

TSN said that 90% of OHLers fight less than 10 times a season. It's pretty obvious they're really trying to eliminate that 1 dimensional player. It should be interesting to compare numbers at the end of the season in terms of fighting majors.

http://www.google.ca...ved=0CB0QwAMoAg

I think its a good start and Mr Branch should be applauded!!!

[Shayzam 0]

Almost every league around here has implemented a third fight/ major two game suspension, forth major five game suspension and fifth league hearing possible expolusion. It killed off pretty much all planned fights/ enforcers within the league, and improved the hockey significantly. I can see it making a difference here not because people will actaully reach ten fights but rather because you would pick your ten fights more wisely as you never know when you will have to goon it up for your team or your pride.

[CommodoreColt 19]

... not because people will actaully reach ten fights but rather because you would pick your ten fights more wisely as you never know when you will have to goon it up for your team or your pride.

This sounds reasonable to me, provided players' and coaches' behavior actually follows that logic. I agree that toughness can be expressed with a team sharing the responsibility of that toughness, not just through the employ of one or two bouncers on the squad taking every slight to their team upon themselves to resolve.

That said, I live very far from Canada and have no real perspective on the up-close realities of OHL hockey. Anyone care to explain the dissenting point beyond "Nope, I don't like it, don't like it attall"?

I'm curious because I'm skeptical of the idea that specific, restrictive rules will 1) have any effect on a deeply set culture and behavior and 2) will not be easily skirted around. I agree that it's the responsibility of a developmental league is to test hockey skills, team play, toughness, and professionalism, but fighting is only a small subcategory of one or two of those criteria. I'm really curious what those closer than I to major junior hockey think think about it.

[ibeck 38]

http://www.google.ca...ved=0CB0QwAMoAg

I think its a good start and Mr Branch should be applauded!!!

Vid looks interesting, thanks

[skleiner 0]

Not a fan of this rule at all, a team can seriously benefit from that one guy who's willing to drop the mitts regularly.

[Cams 7]

Not a fan of the rule at all. There is a role for the kind of player in the NHL, then there is a role for that kind of player in the OHL (CHL). It's only the OHL instituting this, not the WHL or the QMJHL. Sure, have your 3 fights in a game and you're done. Have the second fight in same stoppage rule - it's fine.

I've followed the OHL for 30 years pretty much - had season tickets for a good portion of that time. There are very few games anymore where fighting gets out of hand. Back in the '80s it got a little silly - but we've moved on from that. By attempting to remove that player from the game - you are allowing more liberties to be taken with less of a check in place. If a team wants to employ that kind of player, by all means let them. Will he sit on the bench likely for most of the game - probably, but that is each teams choice.

Just as you have the NJ Devils / NY Ranges rivalry last season - so do you have rivalries in the OHL that get even more heated - take for example London / Kitchener, Windsor / Plymouth, and historically Windsor / London, Oshawa / Peterborough. Do things get all crazy all the time? Absolutely not, but to have that insurance policy should things get out of hand, is not a bad thing.

[chippa13 1844]

I've thought about this quite a bit and plenty of liberties get taken at the NHL level without this rule in place and guys free to fight as much as they like (except for the 3 per game rule). Being able to turtle or run from enforcers or not being on the ice when said enforcers are allows guys to do whatever they want. The only thing that slowed Matt Cooke down last year was his own GM and coach telling him, "Keep it up and you aren't welcome here anymore."

At first I did wonder if this kind of rule could lead to more liberties taken but the more I thought about it, the more I've come around to the realization that fighting is not the "liberties" deterrent that it once was. The only argument against this rule is that it takes the knuckle draggers out of the game and, let's be honest, no true fan of the game wants them in the game anyway.

[Cams 7]

I'm as big a fan of the game as there is, and I sure welcome a spot for my team to have a Colton Orr, Cam Janssen, Tie Domi, type of player available. It's pretty obvious most teams feel the same way (Philly, Boston, Buffalo, for starters). It's preference in a way, but I sure as heck prefer to hard physical N American (gotta say it - Canadian) style game, as opposed to the less physical European style game.

Guys like Branch have to remember - some people come for the entertainment, not just the hockey. Like people going to NASCAR to see the crashes.

[chippa13 1844]

If you're coming just for the fights then we don't want you. Buffalo is a horrible example. They don't even have a bonafide fighter (witness the Lucic/Miller fiasco) let alone a knuckledragger enforcer. Boston employs Shawn Thornton who is an integral part of the 4th line and not just a fighter for hire. The rest of their scrapping is done by committee by guys who play regular shifts up and down the lineup and can take care of themselves. Limiting the number of fights before a suspension won't impact the Bruins philosophy of play.

As for guys like Colton Orr or Cam Janssen, nobody will lament not being able to see them play their 4:30 of icetime. Trust me, no tickets will go unused because Colton Orr isn't in the lineup.

[Chadd 916]

Domi could skate, unlike those other two. In fact, he was the Leafs fastest skater a couple times when he was younger. I will say this, if the league is going to cut down on fighting, they have to be serious with suspensions for cheap shots.

[Cams 7]

If you're coming just for the fights then we don't want you. Buffalo is a horrible example. They don't even have a bonafide fighter (witness the Lucic/Miller fiasco) let alone a knuckledragger enforcer. Boston employs Shawn Thornton who is an integral part of the 4th line and not just a fighter for hire. The rest of their scrapping is done by committee by guys who play regular shifts up and down the lineup and can take care of themselves. Limiting the number of fights before a suspension won't impact the Bruins philosophy of play.

As for guys like Colton Orr or Cam Janssen, nobody will lament not being able to see them play their 4:30 of icetime. Trust me, no tickets will go unused because Colton Orr isn't in the lineup.

They didn't have a bonafide enforcer, hence they went and signed John Scott this off season. It surely wasn't for his goal scoring or defensive play.

I am certainly not coming just for the fights, but as a life long hockey fan, and also someone who has enjoyed playing for 30+ years (turning 40 too soon), I would certainly build my team so it wouldn't get pushed around. Take a look at the 2008-09 and even 09-10 Windsor Spitfires lineups - back to back champions - both teams featured the skill, but also had probably 4 of the top 6 best fighters in the league (08-09). Take Boston's Cup team - Lucic, Chara, (mind you those are bad examples - both can play elite skill hockey too - but still can fight), Thornton, McQuaid. Anaheim - Thornton, Parros, May, Moen, Fedoruk.

These guys had to learn their trade somehow right?

Chadd - You are 100% right re: being serious with suspensions.

[chippa13 1844]

Each of those Bruins you named played a regular shift. They weren't the Colton Orr's of the league. They were players who could also handle themselves. Those guys are not going to be impacted by implementing the fight limit rule. If those guys only had 9-10 fights a season in juniors then they would have learned their trade just fine. You don't need nightly fight-fests to learn how to handle yourself.

As for fighting in juniors to learn how to do it in the NHL, those 4 top fighters that the Spitfires had in 08-09 have only 5 NHL games between them and they are all Lane MacDermid's. Greenop has already retired due to concussion issues. Sounds like a lot of fighting really helped him out.

[troy 12]

TSN said that 90% of OHLers fight less than 10 times a season. It's pretty obvious they're really trying to eliminate that 1 dimensional player. It should be interesting to compare numbers at the end of the season in terms of fighting majors.

Hate it.

With that stat above, how can you say that? Ten-percent of 18 skaters, hold on while I grab my calculator, is 1.8 players, amounting roughly to the number of pure goons.

I've thought about this quite a bit and plenty of liberties get taken at the NHL level without this rule in place and guys free to fight as much as they like (except for the 3 per game rule). Being able to turtle or run from enforcers or not being on the ice when said enforcers are allows guys to do whatever they want. The only thing that slowed Matt Cooke down last year was his own GM and coach telling him, "Keep it up and you aren't welcome here anymore."

At first I did wonder if this kind of rule could lead to more liberties taken but the more I thought about it, the more I've come around to the realization that fighting is not the "liberties" deterrent that it once was. The only argument against this rule is that it takes the knuckle draggers out of the game and, let's be honest, no true fan of the game wants them in the game anyway.

Domi could skate, unlike those other two. In fact, he was the Leafs fastest skater a couple times when he was younger. I will say this, if the league is going to cut down on fighting, they have to be serious with suspensions for cheap shots.

I agree with these viewpoints, once the one-dimensional player is gone the league will have to mitigate the impact dirty little rats have.

[bigdmac 12]

I agree with these viewpoints, once the one-dimensional player is gone the league will have to mitigate the impact dirty little rats have.

I agree, if you take out the players who aren't afriad to drop the gloves when duty calls, the amount of Sean Avery's and Daniel Carcillo's are going to sky rocket