2013 Bauer Products

[althoma1 574]

The tweaks to the Cascade products sound great and the prices have stayed the same. That's great news. Will the IMS 11.0 be available as a combo with a RE-AKT cage or will you have to buy them each seperately if you want the helmet and cage?

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Yes, all available in combos. I think RE-AKT is the only cage in the catalogue for 2013.

[The MAD Line 2]

7.0 sounds really interesting, especially at that price point.

[AIREAYE 248]

The 9.0 and anti-fog products really stand out to me; I think they'll do well. Hopefully, they changed something with the M11 shells...the pliability of those things was too much imo.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

One might argue it was done that way to combat the stiffness of the Seven coils.

[AIREAYE 248]

Hopefully there will be a happy medium, the M11 products were launched to much hype (as was the case in other areas I fathom) around here and induced many first-time trials. The vast majority of feedback on them have been negative and they are not regarded well in my workplace, but I digress.

Very interested to see how the perforated Poron looks/feels.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Looks like Poron, feels the same, just has holes in it.

[Jason 65]

So is the shell of the 11.0 the same aesthetically as the M11 pro?

[theWB 2]

11.0 and 7.0 look exactly the same as their Cascade counterparts.

[jsykes 35]

Hopefully there will be a happy medium, the M11 products were launched to much hype (as was the case in other areas I fathom) around here and induced many first-time trials. The vast majority of feedback on them have been negative and they are not regarded well in my workplace, but I digress.

Thats interesting and something I know we've discussed here before with many people having issues with the Cascade products. However, in my area, we get a ton of return customers to Cascade. We sell a lot of these helmets and once we sell one, we usually get brothers, sisters, even dads coming in to buy one for themselves. Kids moving from one size to another, some have had a basic black one and made a different team and now are back to get a custom one, etc.

I'll tell you, my Bauer rep is probably thrilled he is now going to represent "Cascade" as well. I ran some numbers.

Since January 1, we've sold 131 basic stock Cascade helmets. This does not account for all the custom orders as they're rung into our system as a special order and I have no way to break that down to specific products. I'd say add another 30-40 custom helmets at least as we do a large number of those as well. So probably about 160-170 total Cascades since the first of the year.

We've sold 169 of all Bauer helmets combined.

So I'd venture to say we've sold as many Cascades this year as all Bauer helmets combined.

We've only sold about 30-40 helmets of all other manufacturers combined.

So my Bauer rep, getting Cascade, now has a total monopoly on my helmet sales. LOL

But the bottom line is we do very well with Cascades, we have a ton of happy customers with them and our sales continue to be excellent with them. I have no doubt that will continue under the Bauer name and possibly with the improvements, they'll get even better.

[AIREAYE 248]

I should have specified that it's only the feedback that I've heard, so definitely take that with a grain of salt. However, I still believe that it's an inferior product.

[donkers 31]

All this steel talk has gotten me paranoid about my steel. I've always used Tuuk Super Stainless or LS2. Should I go for the Step route or is there any coating I should try? I work in industrial manufacturing so I send stuff out for finishing all the time so I could easily toss my steel into a batch of parts and it wouldn't cost me a thing. I actually have items going out for DLC finishing tomorrow. Should I give it a shot?

[jsykes 35]

However, I still believe that it's an inferior product.

I'm curious to why you believe this. Obviously Bauer has found that its got some merit in order to keep it and try to improve it versus just getting rid of it.

I happen to think the theory behind it is very sound. Coming from an extensive automotive racing background, they've used tires to pad barriers for years because they absorb a ton of impact and then go back to their original state to take another impact. I'm not just drinking Messier kool-aid, I've seen the theory behind it do wonders in the racing world.

The Seven technology is very similar. While it may not be perfect and still need some fine tuning, I think the idea and basics behind it hold a ton of merit and is a far superior padding system to anything else out there for a helmet that needs to deal with repeated impacts. The real deal is getting it light enough and ventilated enough to be comfortable to wear. Hopefully Bauer will be able to do that fine tuning and give it the little bits to put it over the top and get a bit more respect.

But that is for another thread I guess.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Not the right thread for this, but just get Step. If the DLC coat is uneven it won't perform.

All this steel talk has gotten me paranoid about my steel. I've always used Tuuk Super Stainless or LS2. Should I go for the Step route or is there any coating I should try? I work in industrial manufacturing so I send stuff out for finishing all the time so I could easily toss my steel into a batch of parts and it wouldn't cost me a thing. I actually have items going out for DLC finishing tomorrow. Should I give it a shot?

[AIREAYE 248]

I think the product as a whole is inferior not because of the Seven technology or the padding for that matter but for the simple attribute that the shell is too soft. Too much impact force would transfer to the head if the helmet moves too much during impacts. On the flip side, I personally don't think the newer Easton top-end helmets have it right either in that regard. Too rigid so the helmet won't absorb/dissipate enough impact energy. I think these two helmets are on two extremes of that variable.

Another reasoning based solely on some observations is that it doesn't seem to fit a lot of kids as well as other helmets, I also do no like the ratchet adjustment system. That being said, my opinion isn't actually based on solid observations over a larger sample partly because we do not carry them in store. As a result, I don't think my opinion has enough merit to be compared to yours fairly. However, I will still stand by my point of the shell being too soft haha.

[raganblink 82]

Yes, all available in combos. I think RE-AKT is the only cage in the catalogue for 2013.

Correct, Re-Akt is the only stand-alone top-end cage. However, each helmet Bauer has will have its own cage to match up with. For instance the 9900 combo comes with the 9900 cage, which is no longer available for purchase.

The IMS 11,9,7 all have their own combo cage, all of which are not available aftermarket. If you want that cage, you gotta get it in the combo. The only Combo the Re-Akt cage comes with is the Re-Akt.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Interesting.

Thanks for the assist - I didn't ask that question, nor did we cover combos; I just knew they had combos.

[AIREAYE 248]

The lack of aftermarket cages from Bauer is going to be a bit of a problem...

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

The lack of aftermarket cages from Bauer is going to be a bit of a problem...

I'm not so sure about that. Usually if a cage is wrecked, the helmet is too and should be replaced.

[AIREAYE 248]

It will be difficult to fit helmets and cages separately for those needing a helmet size different than a cage size without spending a lot of money on a cage. While many shops routinely mix and match cages from different companies, some (mine) do not install for legal reasons and have to size cages w/o installation. Although it won't be MUCH more difficult, the lack of aftermarket cages being made will add extra inconvenience for some.

[raganblink 82]

They'll be fine with their lack of retailing every cage that is available. Don't forget that the CCM FM480/580 is still the most popular cage out there, that eats up a lot of the aftermarket cage sales (Atleast for us it does). The options that they offer in the cages also include more visor combinations and full face protection options.

JR's right, too. When its time for a new cage, most likely its time for a new helmet. And if its not, well, you can choose which pricepoint you'd like to be in. From $25 to $70 and everything in between. Flooding the marketplace with 10+ options for cages is not feasible nor beneficial to a retailer. TBH, if you can't find what you'd like in the options that are out there, you're just being too picky & if it matters that much, just buy a combo then sell the helmet.

While many shops routinely mix and match cages from different companies, some (mine) do not install for legal reasons and have to size cages w/o installation.

Just wondering, are you serious? You guys won't install cages from different companies? Why? They're both HECC certified, it doesn't void the certification for either item. Also sizing cages without installation isn't hard at all. We do it all the time... just plop the helmet on the kid, figure out his size and line them up with where they'd lie on the helmet, then make sure its secure on their chin. Then just throw the cage on, figure out where j-clips need to go, and adjust straps. Done.

[AIREAYE 248]

You're right raganblink. A slight inconvenience for some shops was my point, on my end for example. Bauer doesn't need that many cages out there, especially for the amount of market share they have in the helmet/helmet combo segment (that will soon grow I suspect).

For shop guys, you'd want to ensure a perfect fitting cage in addition to the helmet, and for those bound by the mentioned legal nuances, holding the cage up to the face should give a good idea of fit, but not optimal. Having some customers install their own cross-brand combos and returning a poorly fitting cage is another small inconvenience.

In response to your edit raganblink :

I've been told that it has to do with CSA certifications not carrying through, independent of HECC since we're in Canada. And you're right, it's not hard, but it's a nit of an inconvenience.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

I forgot you guys did that. I can understand your concern there.

Is that a Forzani-wide stance?

Oh, I forgot to add that RE-AKT will now be available in XS. Since it fits bigger than standard Bauer helmets, they felt the need to add a 4th size.

[AIREAYE 248]

Gotta watch what I say here, haha. Not sure if it's throughout, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were so I don't know for sure. If there wasn't this legal nuance, things would be easier for the fitter as we wouldn't be liable for swapping cross-brands. But there is and doing so would put us liable (me, managers, up the chain) so we don't do it.

[t6lock 24]

thanks for all the helmet updates! looks like im pickin up a 7500 soon..... now my next question..... wait for boxing day?