Cooke cuts Karlsson

[mike_o 3]

For those that didn't see the outer sock get cut, there is one replay that does show it. I believe I saw it on TSN's website where the panelists weighted in. They showed the replay in slow-mo and you can clearly see the skate slice through the outer sock. I've been wanting to try out kevlar socks for some time and now it's just a matter of finding the right pair. I don't mind thicker socks from the ankle up, but I do prefer thinner socks in the boot. While I can imagine the blunt force of a skate causing some trauma, I'd rather get a bad contusion versus a laceration.

I was just reading that Teemu Sellane had 85% of his achilles severed in his second year in the NHL. He said it took a solid six months to fully recover but obviously he's had a long and great career. I think the biggest fear is a full laceration as that can be a career ender...

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Ha!

Both. Emergency medicine/medical toxicology. And, of course, I believe in "one nation under a groove!"

I guess I'll be seeing you when the Mothership lands then.

For those that didn't see the outer sock get cut, there is one replay that does show it. I believe I saw it on TSN's website where the panelists weighted in. They showed the replay in slow-mo and you can clearly see the skate slice through the outer sock. I've been wanting to try out kevlar socks for some time and now it's just a matter of finding the right pair. I don't mind thicker socks from the ankle up, but I do prefer thinner socks in the boot. While I can imagine the blunt force of a skate causing some trauma, I'd rather get a bad contusion versus a laceration.

I was just reading that Teemu Sellane had 85% of his achilles severed in his second year in the NHL. He said it took a solid six months to fully recover but obviously he's had a long and great career. I think the biggest fear is a full laceration as that can be a career ender...

If you can get that clip, that'd be great.

I have a pair of the Tuff-N-Lite socks. They ended up being a little too thick for me in the foot to my liking.

I don't like compression socks for the most part, either. The only one I liked was OxySox, because it had the loose toe and heel. I have a pair of Bauer Vapor socks and couldn't stand them - the foot is only about 4" in its normal state. I skate with Wigwam thin socks.

[Dr. Funk 6]

Chadd, was that a ruptured/completely lacerated Achilles? It's a (potentially) incredibly debilitating injury, particularly in the past. Just crushes your explosiveness if you're a high-end athlete; if you're not, many struggle to regain reasonable function of the affected limb. Relatively modern advances in surgical therapy have revolutionized management, but it's still a long road back, particularly for someone who's not a world-class athlete/has access to the best orthopaedists in the world.

So many professionals have suffered Achilles injuries and have never been the same. Vinny Testaverde, Terrell Suggs, Takeo Spikes, Elton Brand, Ryan Howard, and David Beckham, right off the top of my head. Not to mention Achilles himself, I guess. Now, many of those guys have been hurt later in their careers (and have other reasons for their decline), but it certainly doesn't help matters. Teemu - who suffered an 80% laceration his in his second year, if I recall correctly - is still the exception rather than the rule. All the best to Karlsson.

[jimmy 194]

Cooke should have been permanently suspended after the Savard head hit. Sorry, I don't think he is "reformed" or feel sorry for him one bit.

[Chadd 916]

Chadd, was that a ruptured/completely lacerated Achilles? It's a (potentially) incredibly debilitating injury, particularly in the past. Just crushes your explosiveness if you're a high-end athlete; if you're not, many struggle to regain reasonable function of the affected limb. Relatively modern advances in surgical therapy have revolutionized management, but it's still a long road back, particularly for someone who's not a world-class athlete/has access to the best orthopaedists in the world.

So many professionals have suffered Achilles injuries and have never been the same. Vinny Testaverde, Terrell Suggs, Takeo Spikes, Elton Brand, Ryan Howard, and David Beckham, right off the top of my head. Not to mention Achilles himself, I guess. Now, many of those guys have been hurt later in their careers (and have other reasons for their decline), but it certainly doesn't help matters. Teemu - who suffered an 80% laceration his in his second year, if I recall correctly - is still the exception rather than the rule. All the best to Karlsson.

To be honest, I don't recall the exact diagnosis. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it had been completely severed.

[shooter27 116]

Cooke should have been permanently suspended after the Savard head hit. Sorry, I don't think he is "reformed" or feel sorry for him one bit.

You know, I've watched the replay a dozen times and I keep changing my opinion on the hit. Do I think Cooke tried to slice or stomp on Karlsson's Achilles? No. Do I think he tried to to slew foot Karlsson, lost his balance, and this ended up being the consequence? I'm leaning that way, especially given Cooke's history.

[dsjunior1388 81]

You know, I've watched the replay a dozen times and I keep changing my opinion on the hit. Do I think Cooke tried to slice or stomp on Karlsson's Achilles? No. Do I think he tried to to slew foot Karlsson, lost his balance, and this ended up being the consequence? I'm leaning that way, especially given Cooke's history.

So if a guy is stealing a woman's purse and she falls down the stairs and dies, does he get charged for murder? The amount of effort people are putting in to placing the blame on Cooke is astounding.

[icewalker_bg 126]

Nike Swift socks were revised to add ripstop material in the back after Team Canada used them for the first time. Gretzky made the suggestion, and they did, at least for them.

Reebok won't do that; that would be an admission of failure as they have been selling it as a complete uniform. They should simply revise the socks, just like what they did for the players who didn't like the original EDGE jerseys.

I know personally I wouldn't go back to knit socks.

I meant the first layer you put on your feet, not the ones you put on your shins. Do you know if those are as good as they claim on the package and would have prevented this?

[shooter27 116]

So if a guy is stealing a woman's purse and she falls down the stairs and dies, does he get charged for murder? The amount of effort people are putting in to placing the blame on Cooke is astounding.

Actually, yes in most states. If you commit a crime that results in a persons death you can be held responsible. It might be a manslaughter charge, but most likely the theif would be charged for the death.

That being said, I dont necessarily blame him for the injury, but I do believe the injury is a result of a dirty play (the slew foot).

[icewalker_bg 126]

So if a guy is stealing a woman's purse and she falls down the stairs and dies, does he get charged for murder? The amount of effort people are putting in to placing the blame on Cooke is astounding.

Of course. The initiator should be charged for a direct or undirect result.

[HockeySavants 5]

I actually believe that it was purely accidental. Something about no one being that malicious to where they would purposely cut the tendon is what I believe.

Wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time, what was more unfortunate is that Karlsson even tucks his tendon guard under this socks too.

Simple solution that will become complicated:

1. Reebok will not allow teams to wear different sucks, although understandable.

2. EQMs will want all players to wear kevlar socks, only to be met by opposition by players.

3. Reebok will ultimately decide whether they will change the sock design or look the other way.

Friend was sliced by a skate on his wrist before, so he wore Uline gloves modified by cutting off the fingers leaving only the thumb.

Overal freak injuries aren't common, but you definitely don't ever want to experience it.

Even if Karlsson had worn kevlar socks, he would have had a nasty bruise or rupture, but better than nothing.

[flip12 715]

So if a guy is stealing a woman's purse and she falls down the stairs and dies, does he get charged for murder? The amount of effort people are putting in to placing the blame on Cooke is astounding.

If this hypothetical defendant had a prior record of violent incidents, I doubt the jury would be in his favor.

Here's that video where you can see the cut (esp. at 0:24). In slow motion, you see how deep into Karlsson's skate Cooke's goes. I didn't notice it go in, get wedged like it does between Karlsson's tendon guard and achilles, on the low resolution videos I had seen before this one. It gets harder to look at each time.

[dsjunior1388 81]

Of course. The initiator should be charged for a direct or undirect result.

Right, like when the NHL threw the book at the guy who did the same thing to Robert Lang. Oh wait, that's not what happened, in fact it's so irrelevant I couldn't figure out who it was after 20 minutes of googling. Accidents happen, and just because Matt Cooke was at the point of contact does not mean that he was intending to cripple Karlsson for the next year or so.

[shooter27 116]

. Accidents happen, and just because Matt Cooke was at the point of contact does not mean that he was intending to cripple Karlsson for the next year or so.

I agree that it was an accident, and I agree that Cooke wasn't intending to cripple him. But I do think he was trying to slewfoot him, and as a result of losing his balance, this is the unintended consequence. I'm not saying he should be suspended or fined or anything of that nature, but I do think it was a dirty play, and his intention to slewfoot Karlsson had an unintended consequence.

[innotastic 12]

i dont think he was trying to slew foot him. honestly it was just a hit and pin gone wrong; he went in at a bad angle. you guys keep breaking things down in slow motion, but the play happened so fast, like 3/4s of a second, it was just a freak accident.

can you rupture a tendon without actually cutting it? yes. a friend of mine blew his out playing badminton. you put enough force on something it'll blow.

can a trauma without actually cutting it rupture a tendon? probably, although very not as likely.

why no blood? A) it's a tendon, there's very little blood flow. hell there's not much circulation in that part of your leg at all. B) when you get a deep cut it doesn't bleed out right away, oddly enough. i got cut in the thigh a few years back and it was dry for about 20 minutes until i started putting pressure on it and getting some circulation going, and this was a thigh cut, where there's quite a bit more circulation.

for reference sake, bieksa had a 90% laceration a couple years ago, he "recovered" in 3 months but wasn't 100% for a year. i woudln't expect karlsson to be effective until january/february 2014. good enough for sochi, right?

i really think the hockey sock should be modified. everyone has to wear 'em, it covers the whole damn leg, including the thigh.

[Jason 65]

Jason,

Excellent point. It's certainly possible to rupture the tendon that lies beneath without lacerating the overlying skin. It would be somewhat odd, however, to suffer a "70% tendon laceration" (which, if I recall correctly, is how the Senators described the injury) without an overlying skin wound. Typically, a tendon "rupture" is a 100% tear (sometimes called a "full-thickness" injury), and a "laceration" (which can be anything from a partial- to full-thickness injury) is associated with a penetrating wound. The penetrating wound can be either from the body's surface (think cut by a skate blade, gunshot wound, or some other penetrating trauma) or from an internal structure (the tendon is injured by an underlying fractured bone from blunt trauma). The Achilles is, unfortunately, particularly vulnerable to these types of injuries for a variety of reasons.

I'm not at all privy to the Senators' medical staff. They could be using "laceration" to describe another injury - a partial avulsion/rupture, for instance - or there could be some other misunderstanding. Most Achilles ruptures/lacerations will require surgical correction regardless.

Not to be a complete alarmist for the Senators fans out there, but this will likely be a long road back for a fabulous player. Really tough injury for any athlete, let alone someone who plays a sport with a lot of flexion-extension-type movements of the leg/ankle. Ugh.

Finally, a cut-resistant sock may very well help protect against a laceration to the skin and underlying structures; however, like you said, this probably won't help if you're struck with blunt force and your tendon simply ruptures. I have no interest in any company that manufactures these things, but I think that if it might help and I'm wearing socks anyway...

Thanks for the info. After watching the replay, the outer sock is definitely cut through. Now I'd like to see the inner sock. I think I am going to get a pair of cut resistant socks. Any recommendations from those that have tried some? I'm looking for something similar to a Bauer Vapor sock. I hate really thin slippery socks. I like something medium thickness that will grip a boot liner.

[wrangler 157]

So if a guy is stealing a woman's purse and she falls down the stairs and dies, does he get charged for murder? The amount of effort people are putting in to placing the blame on Cooke is astounding.

It could happen; it's called "felony murder". Bad analogy.

If this hypothetical defendant had a prior record of violent incidents, I doubt the jury would be in his favor.

A jury would probably not be told about prior acts, unless they are similar enough to be a "signature crime".

[camhockey16 5]

i thought this video did a pretty good job of explaining

http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=main/latest/6/0/864713/clip/337

[icewalker_bg 126]

Right, like when the NHL threw the book at the guy who did the same thing to Robert Lang. Oh wait, that's not what happened, in fact it's so irrelevant I couldn't figure out who it was after 20 minutes of googling. Accidents happen, and just because Matt Cooke was at the point of contact does not mean that he was intending to cripple Karlsson for the next year or so.

You asked a question about the purse, I answered, not sure what that has to do with Lang/Cooke/Karlsson and what youre trying to say exactly.

[zeeto 1]

I ruptured my left Achilles, playing basketball, about 5 years ago. I honestly had not even thought about a laceration when I started playing on ice again last year, and I've been playing with regular old compression socks and my hockey socks inside the tendon guard of my skate . I ordered 2 pairs of the bauer elite's after seeing the video and will start playing with my socks outside of the guards. PT and regaining confidence that I wasn't going to snap it again sucked, because of how tight the tendon was after the cast was removed.

The wierd part about the video is that he doesn't seem to be in a huge amount of pain until he pushed off. I know when I ruptured mine, it didn't even hurt - it just felt like my foot went through the floor and all of a sudden I couldn't push off my left leg. I actually drove 20 miles, shifting my truck with my heal. It almost seems like he had it partially lacerated and when he pushed off, then it fully snapped. My ortho said the partial's are the ones that really hurt.

[Chadd 916]

I meant the first layer you put on your feet, not the ones you put on your shins. Do you know if those are as good as they claim on the package and would have prevented this?

Kevlar weaves can be pierced by pointed blades, like a dagger, but they will stand up very well to the flat edge of a knife blade or a skate.

[doodman 0]

Like most of you I've seen the replay of this over and over and I just can't see how there wasn't some intent to injure.

What I see that is NOT routine is Cooke lifting his foot high and the stomping motion. Why is he doing that? That is not a normal hockey play near the boards or even a 'fluke'.

[donkers 31]

Like most of you I've seen the replay of this over and over and I just can't see how there wasn't some intent to injure.

What I see that is NOT routine is Cooke lifting his foot high and the stomping motion. Why is he doing that? That is not a normal hockey play near the boards or even a 'fluke'.

It was unfortunate that Karlsson's leg was where it was when Cooke brought his foot down. I don't see any intent to injure and obviously Shannahan agrees.

[mike_o 3]

People are really starting to stretch things with stating Cooke was trying to slew foot him or that he intentionally tried to injure him.

This has already been beaten to death, Cooke was going into the boards with the intent of pinning Karlsson by pushing his knee/leg in between Karlsson's legs. Aaron Ward did a great job of showing this, even providing examples from the Dallas/Calgary game the same night. This is normally a routine play and happens constantly throughout a game, something that most of us were taught from an early age. This isn't even close to a slew foot, if you think it is, you really need to watch the replay in real time and go watch what a real slew foot is. It would have been impossible for him to have slew footed him in this scenario (he didn't have the position to do a slew foot and at that speed going into the boards, it just doesn't make sense).

For the leg coming down, this was caused by the force of impact into the ports. The replay from the camera above the boards/behind the net shows this better than the others. His leg was up due to being off balance going into the boards, and when they ran into the boards his leg was forced down.

And for anyone still stating it's deliberate, look at what Cooke is looking at as they are going into the boards, he's looking off to the right and not looking to the left and down at legs/skates. I honestly think that if this was any other player this wouldn't even be a discussion at this point....I understand people justifiably hate him, but really put your bias aside when coming to a conclusion.

While I didn't like Cooke's hit on Savard, (not that this hasn't been beaten to death enough over the past few years), at the time it was perfectly legal so it would be nice to not bring this up....again. I don't see Mike Richards still being flamed for his hit on Booth, eh?

JR, here's the video I was referencing: http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=nhl-latest/latest/4/0/864712/clip/587 If you look at :39 and :52 you can see his outer sock cut, assuming it was by the skate blade but possibly the force of the skate caused Karlsson's tendon guard to cut it (I know my tendon guards over the years have destroyed some of my socks)...

[jsykes 35]

It looks like the leg was cut inside the boot behind the tendon guard, so its likely, the bleeding would have pooled down inside the boot rather than showing or dripping onto the ice.

At our rink we had a guy get cut on the ankle in an adult game, was actually his own skate that came up and cut him when he collided with another player. it was the inside of his ankle, just above the boot. He didnt bleed all over the place and didnt even realize he was cut. He finished a shift and until he felt like his foot was getting wet, didnt even realize since all the blood was pooling down in his skate, not all over the bench or ice.

At that point they realized he was cut pretty bad and the medics were called and he was taken out on a stretcher and required a bunch of stitches. Luckily, it was just a cut and didnt catch anything important.