Is So-And-So A Hall Of Famer? The Water Cooler Thread

[chippa13 1844]

He was cursed to play in the Bourque/Lidstrom era so he didn't get a whole lot of recognition. Zubov was one of those smooth playing defensemen that many didn't notice because he didn't do anything flashy but it was always a pleasure to watch him play.

[flip12 714]

Indeed, it's a shame Zubie never got a Norris. I loved the way he would slither through the neutral zone with the puck, untouchable to forecheckers. I could see him getting in the Hall, but after a bit more of a wait.

[Chadd 916]

He was cursed to play in the Bourque/Lidstrom era so he didn't get a whole lot of recognition. Zubov was one of those smooth playing defensemen that many didn't notice because he didn't do anything flashy but it was always a pleasure to watch him play.

There were a ton of great blue liners during his tenure; Leetch, Chelios, Housley, MacInnis, etc...

[psh 25]

He was cursed to play in the Bourque/Lidstrom era so he didn't get a whole lot of recognition. Zubov was one of those smooth playing defensemen that many didn't notice because he didn't do anything flashy but it was always a pleasure to watch him play.

Smooth playing is right. His skating was so fluid and effortless, I would often find myself simply watching him and Modano without regard for who was carrying the puck. That pair might be the best pair of skaters I've ever seen on a roster at the same time.

[chippa13 1844]

There were a ton of great blue liners during his tenure; Leetch, Chelios, Housley, MacInnis, etc...

Well, sure, but I could only type so much with my thumbs on my phone.

[flip12 714]

Smooth playing is right. His skating was so fluid and effortless, I would often find myself simply watching him and Modano without regard for who was carrying the puck. That pair might be the best pair of skaters I've ever seen on a roster at the same time.

Other arguably as good skating combos: Bure and Mogilny, Fedorov and Coffey. Those two pairs belong in the consideration. Bure still made both defenders in the set look silly trying to cut him off laterally.

[chippa13 1844]

I'm not sold on Mogilny as a hall of famer. No hardware on his mantle but the one Lady Byng.

[Chadd 916]

I'm not sold on Mogilny as a hall of famer. No hardware on his mantle but the one Lady Byng.

76 goals as a rookie, that alone has to merit consideration

[flip12 714]

He wasn't quite a rookie, that was his fourth year in the NHL. It was Selanne who had 76 as a rookie the same year.

I see Mogilny getting in, but in 10-more years or so. He gets less respect for having shied away from the spotlight as well as just not quite dominating the way that Bure and Fedorov did. He still is a would-have-been-500-goal-scorer if not for games lost to injuries and lockouts, as are both Fedorov and Bure. I wonder if he didn't lose a step after breaking his ankle against Montreal in '93. Still, he had some seasons of very good offensive output, on both bad teams (Vancouver '96-'97) and good teams (New Jersey '00-'01).

In the NHL he only has the Lady Bing, and the Stanley Cup he helped win as a ridiculously dangerous defensive forward. On top of that, he was the first young Soviet player to defect, and won WJC, WC, and Olympic gold. In recent years, the HHOF has done a lot to recognize world-class hockey credentials outside of just the NHL. I think the election committee will eventually let him in on a ballet with a spot leftover from first-ballet inductees.

[Chadd 916]

My bad, that's what I get posting after a 12+ hour day at work.

[Jason Harris 31]

I'm surprised Recchi didn't make it in during a weak class, though it's obvious that the HHOF voters have thought of him and Lindros as borderline candidates. My guess is the knock against Recchi has been his longevity allowed him to amass numbers that hid his seasons were closer to the Hall of Very Good, while Lindros was the opposite; his lack of longevity obscured that his scoring was at a HHOF pace.

 

The Hall has made allowances before for players whose career numbers fell slightly short due to injury  — LaFontaine, Neely, Forsberg — so It seemed Lindros might one day be invited, but I thought the dearth of candidates this year would have opened the door for Recchi.

 

For all we know, the voters are planning to bring him in in another year or two, while the classes are still weak. As someone once said, it is just a museum after all, so there is a touch of marketing involved.

[chippa13 1844]

I just don't see Recchi as a Hall of Famer. He's got big numbers but he had the luxury of playing in the pre-trap late 80's/early 90's when everyone was putting up big numbers. He played a long time but was never considered dominant or a member of the elite player club at any point. Recchi never put asses in the seats and while very good was not somebody that the opposition game planned around.

[kmfdm86 112]

Glad Lindros finally made it in. I grew up in southern NJ watching that Flyers team and they got me hooked on hockey as a kid. It's disgusting how many people are tearing him apart online over it, saying he doesn't deserve it because of his concussions and the short length of his career.

[Chadd 916]

On 6/28/2016 at 2:33 PM, kmfdm86 said:

Glad Lindros finally made it in. I grew up in southern NJ watching that Flyers team and they got me hooked on hockey as a kid. It's disgusting how many people are tearing him apart online over it, saying he doesn't deserve it because of his concussions and the short length of his career.

Once Cam Neely got in, they had to include LIndros. 88s numbers compared favorable  in most regards.

[chippa13 1844]

Lindros also had that dominant factor for a number of years.

[Bakum 25]

On 6/28/2016 at 2:33 PM, kmfdm86 said:

Glad Lindros finally made it in. I grew up in southern NJ watching that Flyers team and they got me hooked on hockey as a kid. It's disgusting how many people are tearing him apart online over it, saying he doesn't deserve it because of his concussions and the short length of his career.

I'm glad he got in but there is plenty of hate for Lindros out there. When Forsberg made it in, Lindros had to immediately be in the conversation. Their numbers are comparable with the exception that Forsberg has 2 cups.

[chippa13 1844]

Lindros getting in is more a result of the Neely effect. Once Neely got in it opened the doors to plenty of injury damaged careers.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Now that the 2016 class is in, TSN is looking at potentials for next season: 

http://www.tsn.ca/2017-hhof-class-the-candidates-1.516969

Based on what I'm seeing (and what I remember of each of these players) here's my breakdown:

Alfredsson - Yes, eventually.
Andreychuk - Yes, eventually.
Fleury - Yes, eventually.
Giguere - No.
Joseph - Maybe.
Jovanovski - No.
Kaberle - No.
Kariya - Maybe in a slow year?
Khabibulin - Maybe.
Koivu - No.
Mogilny - Yes, but next year.
Osgood - Yes, now
Recchi - Yes, now
Roenick - Yes, eventually.
Selanne - Yes, now.
Smyth - No.
Thomas - Yes, but next year.
Whitney - No.
 

Of course, this is just my opinion. Saying a flat "no" is difficult for such great players, and I would support all of them getting in at some point in the future. "unlikely" may be a better word for those players. 

Thoughts?

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

I don't see Osgood as a HOFer.  Trust me, we've had the argument many times in my store amongst employees.

[chippa13 1844]

I think Osgood gets into the Hall of Very Good along with Alfredsson, Mogilny, and Thomas.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

4 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I don't see Osgood as a HOFer.  Trust me, we've had the argument many times in my store amongst employees.

I didn't either until I saw the achievements list. The only thing he's missing is a Vezina win. 

[Stewie 721]

im a huge wings fan, and i just dont see osgood as in either. While really good, he isnt really HHOF in my book. Largely a product of the system, reliable day in and day out tender. Its a lot easier to have good numbers/awards when you are playing behind several HHOF players. One of my favorite dudes, just on the outside of the hall.

[chippa13 1844]

Exactly. For me, if you weren't a dominant player for a decent amount of time then you don't get into the HHOF. Being relatively reliable for a while is one thing but it doesn't make you a Hall of Famer. That is what the Hall of Very Good is for.

[badger_14 601]

Theo Fleury, imho, should be definite, but I feel like politics (internal) will keep him out for a long time.

[chippa13 1844]

I'm not sure I would call Fleury a definite. He doesn't have any individual hardware and his stats were good but not exceptional. Another candidate for the Hall of Very Good.