Heel Lock - Help?

[IPv6Freely 2096]

So I think I discovered my issue with these skates.

I put the superfeet back in and played a game tonight. Feet felt good as far as no pain, aside from the slight discomfort on the outside of my foot that I complained about originally the last (and only other time) I had worn them with superfeet in.

Then I noticed something. When I flex my leg forward, my skate actually CREASES right where the bauer logo is (which, is right above where the pain point on my right foot is). The left doesn't quite crease like that (though it's still a soft boot so I'm sure it does to some degree).

I also wonder if this creasing is the cause of my lack of heel lock also, and not actually different sized feet. I wonder if a pair of (correctly sized, rather than slightly too large) Nexus 400 or 800 would work out for me since those boots are clearly more stiff.

(Still want to try out some Makos though...)

[gosinger 122]

Then I noticed something. When I flex my leg forward, my skate actually CREASES right where the bauer logo is (which, is right above where the pain point on my right foot is). The left doesn't quite crease like that (though it's still a soft boot so I'm sure it does to some degree).

Without reading the entire thread: my LHS had multiple customers return broken skates which all creased right above the bauer logo, and all of them were damaged due to incorrect sizing. All of those customers wanted to get the skates on sale and didn't care if the correct size was in stock, as long as they saved some money. Afaik none of them received a refund, neither from the LHS nor Bauer, as skates broken in that area of the boot are a sign of incorrect sizing. Just my 2c

[IniNew 53]

I had a crease in my CCM V08s and no heel lock issues resulted.

[Larry54 243]

So I think I discovered my issue with these skates.

I put the superfeet back in and played a game tonight. Feet felt good as far as no pain, aside from the slight discomfort on the outside of my foot that I complained about originally the last (and only other time) I had worn them with superfeet in.

Then I noticed something. When I flex my leg forward, my skate actually CREASES right where the bauer logo is (which, is right above where the pain point on my right foot is). The left doesn't quite crease like that (though it's still a soft boot so I'm sure it does to some degree).

I also wonder if this creasing is the cause of my lack of heel lock also, and not actually different sized feet. I wonder if a pair of (correctly sized, rather than slightly too large) Nexus 400 or 800 would work out for me since those boots are clearly more stiff.

(Still want to try out some Makos though...)

At your weight, I definitely would not wear anything lower than Nexus 600. Don't take my word for it. Go to a store and lace up the different Nexus models and lean on the inside edge to see how the boot flexes sideways. You'll be amazed at the difference between the 400 and the 600. No wonder the 200 is creasing. I'm only 145lbs. and the 400 is too soft for me. In your case, you probably need the support of the 800. The 1000 is a whole other skate.

[IPv6Freely 2096]

Without reading the entire thread: my LHS had multiple customers return broken skates which all creased right above the bauer logo, and all of them were damaged due to incorrect sizing. All of those customers wanted to get the skates on sale and didn't care if the correct size was in stock, as long as they saved some money. Afaik none of them received a refund, neither from the LHS nor Bauer, as skates broken in that area of the boot are a sign of incorrect sizing. Just my 2c

Cool.

I had a crease in my CCM V08s and no heel lock issues resulted.

Yea, I'm sure there are many reasons.

At your weight, I definitely would not wear anything lower than Nexus 600. Don't take my word for it. Go to a store and lace up the different Nexus models and lean on the inside edge to see how the boot flexes sideways. You'll be amazed at the difference between the 400 and the 600. No wonder the 200 is creasing. I'm only 145lbs. and the 400 is too soft for me. In your case, you probably need the support of the 800. The 1000 is a whole other skate.

I would certainly agree. I've been happy with them for the most part, and TBH if the Makos don't work out for me I think the Nexus 800 is going to be the closest thing I'll ever get to a pain-free skate. I'm glad I picked these up though, they really allowed me to get a sense of whether the nexus shape would work for me, without breaking the bank.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Creasing = skate too big. It is excess material therefore it creases.

[IPv6Freely 2096]

Creasing = skate too big. It is excess material therefore it creases.

I see. I had assumed it was just from being too soft a boot (which I would think is still at least a part of it).

[giogolf 9]

Theyre the right length for trim, but I dont think I can trim the SIDES of the superfeet to make them thinner, can i?

Heres superfeet beside the Nexus

Theyre the right length for trim, but I dont think I can trim the SIDES of the superfeet to make them thinner, can i?

Heres superfeet beside the Nexus footbed:

I would say the left foot is almost a full size to big, going off where your longest toe ends. Also note worthy for others having fitting issues: if you think a bigger skate provides more volume or width, the opposite is true. A skate thats too big will places the widest part of the skate further forward.

[IPv6Freely 2096]

I would say the left foot is almost a full size to big, going off where your longest toe ends. Also note worthy for others having fitting issues: if you think a bigger skate provides more volume or width, the opposite is true. A skate thats too big will places the widest part of the skate further forward.

Yep, we already established that they are too big :)

[giogolf 9]

Yep, we already established that they are too big :)

I just wanted to put another nail in the coffin.. Just kidding :-)

I actually wanted to explain the other point about being to large places the width and volume on the wrong part of the foot... I am currently fitting my cousin for skates that has the same size feet as me but not the same width and volume. he us convinced he needs a larger skate because Bauer skate sizing guidance says so... I pointed him to this thread and others here but he us still not getting it.

[IPv6Freely 2096]

It's actually a good point. I hadn't really considered it (knowing already that they were too big), but it makes perfect sense.

These Nexus were cheap (obviously, being N200) so I bought them since they were the same size as my RBKs and I figured I'd give them a shot. Obviously my RBKs are therefore too big also (considering those superfeet earlier in the thread came out of the RBKs). If they didn't work, no big loss. But I think they've done an excellent job of giving me some idea of how the Nexus series fit me.

If the Makos don't work, I would imagine the Nexus line will be what I end up with. They're just far and away more comfortable than anything else I've tried to this point.

[giogolf 9]

My one suggestion when you go shopping for new skates would be to get into the smallest skate length wise, then fit to width and volume. On mid to premium skates you can stretch the length +1/2.. also after you bake them your heel will sit back thus providing more room up front.

When I got ft for my Nex 800s my toes where firmly pressing the toe cap but not bent or jammed. When I bent my knees and git into a power stride position I could feel my toes relax back a bit. After baking toe pressure was gone and both feet gently brush the caps while standing upright. I fill the entire skate, with no extra room anywhere.

Take your time, and try as much as you can on... Good luck.

[donkers 31]

If money is no problem then just go get yourself fitted for custom skates. I had to go through ill fitting boots when I was a kid with clueless parents who just bought me skates based off of shoe size and it was a pain in the butt. Is it really worth the hassle going from skate to skate and having to go off of advice from people on a message board who have never seen your feet before?

[IPv6Freely 2096]

If money is no problem then just go get yourself fitted for custom skates. I had to go through ill fitting boots when I was a kid with clueless parents who just bought me skates based off of shoe size and it was a pain in the butt. Is it really worth the hassle going from skate to skate and having to go off of advice from people on a message board who have never seen your feet before?

Well, the plan is to get fitted.

[CB1 8]

My one suggestion when you go shopping for new skates would be to get into the smallest skate length wise, then fit to width and volume. On mid to premium skates you can stretch the length +1/2.. also after you bake them your heel will sit back thus providing more room up front.

When I got ft for my Nex 800s my toes where firmly pressing the toe cap but not bent or jammed. When I bent my knees and git into a power stride position I could feel my toes relax back a bit. After baking toe pressure was gone and both feet gently brush the caps while standing upright. I fill the entire skate, with no extra room anywhere.

Take your time, and try as much as you can on... Good luck.

Great thread! If I may jump in with a few questions.

1. Does the actual skate width change incrementally with size? For example is the width a bit smaller in an 8.5 D than a 9 D skate or are they the same width?

2. Is looking at toe imprints of your current insoles a valid way to see if a skate is too large or not? The only reason I ask, is I believe some said that they don't like playing the insole game (earlier in the thread)?

3. If trying the "pencil" test, would you consider the skate too large if you push you toes until you feel the end cap (laces out of boots, tongue pulled out), then bend your knees, but have a pencil width at the back of your heel?

Thanks!

[IPv6Freely 2096]

Great thread! If I may jump in with a few questions.

1. Does the actual skate width change incrementally with size? For example is the width a bit smaller in an 8.5 D than a 9 D skate or are they the same width?

2. Is looking at toe imprints of your current insoles a valid way to see if a skate is too large or not? The only reason I ask, is I believe some said that they don't like playing the insole game (earlier in the thread)?

3. If trying the "pencil" test, would you consider the skate too large if you push you toes until you feel the end cap (laces out of boots, tongue pulled out), then bend your knees, but have a pencil width at the back of your heel?

Thanks!

I would guess the width definitely changes in a smaller skate.

Generally the insoles aren't exactly the best way to measure, but in cases like mine where it was glaringly obvious that the skates are too big (due to the gap between my toes and the end of the insole, which is presumably the end of the skate) it's an easy indication.

The pencil test has nothing to do with the length of the skate, but to do with volume (lay a pencil horizonally along the top of the skate all the way down from the top eyelets to the bottom).

As far as the test you mention, AFAIK a pencil is good. Anything more than that is bad.

[giogolf 9]

Great thread! If I may jump in with a few questions.

1. Does the actual skate width change incrementally with size? For example is the width a bit smaller in an 8.5 D than a 9 D skate or are they the same width?

2. Is looking at toe imprints of your current insoles a valid way to see if a skate is too large or not? The only reason I ask, is I believe some said that they don't like playing the insole game (earlier in the thread)?

3. If trying the "pencil" test, would you consider the skate too large if you push you toes until you feel the end cap (laces out of boots, tongue pulled out), then bend your knees, but have a pencil width at the back of your heel?

Thanks!

1. Regarding width, I am not sure if most manufacturers have a separate sized toe cap for each whole and half size (I would say no).. That being said the width will increase slightly as you get into a large but not by much. You would never want to buy a larger skate over a smaller one because the width felt better.. this opens up a can of worms for future issues, some of which are discussed here.

2. The imprint on your foot beds could help, but can be misleading. In the case of the OP, the photo clearly showed that his longest toe was well clear of the toe cap indicating a skate size to long. Ideally you want to fill the entire skate with your foot while maintaining comfort so the skate performs as it should. Skate fitting is science and art, how you feel the first time you slip into a skate is not how it will feel after break in. If the skate is not snug around your foot in the beginning it will only get worse as you play in them.

I think you can break skate fitting down into 4 major areas. 1. Length, 2. Width, 3. Volume/Depth, 4. Heel. When fitting all of these need to be fitted and sized appropriately. This is the reason why some manufactures have so many models to choose from as they all fit differently. Take Bauer for example, you have Vapor, Supreme, and Nexus.. Vapor have a normal toe area, tapered volume and normal heel. Supreme have normal/wide toe, tighter forefoot area and tighter heel area. Nexus, wide toe, , deep forefoot and average heel.

If there was one best skate all the pros would be wearing them, but as you see on TV they all skate on different models because that is what works best for them.

3. With the pencil test, you do not want to be able to push your foot from one end to the other, if you can the skate is to big. In a skate where you are snug in the heel and the front of the toe box, flop the tongue unlaced and run the pencil from the top down to the bottom eyelets like a train on a track (eyelets on both sides are your track). Depending on how much you touch the pencil with the top of your foot will give you a good idea if the skate has enough volume for you. If you are just grazing the pencil, most liely baking and break in will seat you deeper in the skate and that issue will be alleviated. If you have a large gap between the pencil and you foot the skate is to deep and could cause fitting issue.

There is hope for most people outside of custom fitting/ordering of skates. Most premium skates can be punched and stretched length and width wise to fine tune the fit.

[CB1 8]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the feedback!

My first pair of skates are entry level skates, Easton EQ 3's (9 D). Been on those a little under 2 years. My insole look similar to OptimusReim's photo thus wondering if I actually need a half size smaller skate. I had purchased a pair CCM U+12 in 9 D. Having another issue (I think) with those, so going to sell them and buy another pair of skates. Not sure what brand yet, but want to make sure I have as much knowledge to make an informed decision as possible.

I don't have any issues with my current EQ3's but as some have mentioned, I probably don't know what a good fit actually feels like since I'm new at this. This is great info to have! I liked Chadd's advice as well, in that you should try on something comfortable and then go to the next smaller size. I did the opposite, in that I tried something small, but then went larger for comfort and didn't even consider the baking, stretching, and breaking in process.

Again, great information!

[IPv6Freely 2096]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the feedback!

My first pair of skates are entry level skates, Easton EQ 3's (9 D). Been on those a little under 2 years. My insole look similar to OptimusReim's photo thus wondering if I actually need a half size smaller skate. I had purchased a pair CCM U+12 in 9 D. Having another issue (I think) with those, so going to sell them and buy another pair of skates. Not sure what brand yet, but want to make sure I have as much knowledge to make an informed decision as possible.

I don't have any issues with my current EQ3's but as some have mentioned, I probably don't know what a good fit actually feels like since I'm new at this. This is great info to have! I liked Chadd's advice as well, in that you should try on something comfortable and then go to the next smaller size. I did the opposite, in that I tried something small, but then went larger for comfort and didn't even consider the baking, stretching, and breaking in process.

Again, great information!

Just gotta try everything on that you can. Get a proper fitting. Unfortunately, that's often easier said than done. All I have near me are stores like HockeyGiant and HockeyMonkey where they really seem like they couldnt care less and just want you to buy whatever so they can go back to goofing off.

I had always read (and been told by store employees) that your toes should brush the toecap and pull back when you bend your knees, so I had no reason to believe the skates I was in weren't the right size when I told them that's how they were fitting. Now I know better, and hopefully if I'm ever able to find somebody who can properly fit skates, I can provide better feedback (and hopefully they would ask better questions).

Hopefully this thread is useful to anyone who may not even realize what they are skating in is too big (as I didn't).

[Chadd 916]

3. If trying the "pencil" test, would you consider the skate too large if you push you toes until you feel the end cap (laces out of boots, tongue pulled out), then bend your knees, but have a pencil width at the back of your heel?

Thanks!

Try the next size down, there is a good chance that they will fit.

[bwhinnen 1]

This has actually proved to be an interesting thread. And one thing I have always wondered is just how much you would expect to gain in internal length from baking and breaking in? I've seen about an 1/8th in size increase in my skates.

The other thing that is interesting is heel lock. If a skate is right length wise, from a width and volume perspective the eyelets are situated evenly apart all the way up the skate and the pencil test passes, but only just on about the 4th and 5th eyelets down. Yet my heel slips now after break in and I find that I need to wear some ezeefit ankle booties to stop it. I know I have narrow little heels/ankles, and there wasn't much of an option to try other widths of skates, so how much difference is there between a Supreme D width and a EE width (original TotalOne skates). I am in an EE at the moment, would there be a great reduction in width / volume from the EE down to the D to gain the advantage of the smaller heel cup size?

I will continue to use the current skates as with the ankle booties there are no issues now, but thinking more for the (hopefully distant) future and also my son, who has the same foot as me, although much smaller (he's 8). Also are there any really good LHS between JFK and Pittsburgh (inclusive) for skate fittings as we are going to be over there at the end of the year and both my son and wife will be getting new skates, we were intending on stopping at Monkey Sports in Woodbridge, NJ on the way.

Sorry to take it a little off topic.

Brett

[giogolf 9]

This has actually proved to be an interesting thread. And one thing I have always wondered is just how much you would expect to gain in internal length from baking and breaking in? I've seen about an 1/8th in size increase in my skates.

The other thing that is interesting is heel lock. If a skate is right length wise, from a width and volume perspective the eyelets are situated evenly apart all the way up the skate and the pencil test passes, but only just on about the 4th and 5th eyelets down. Yet my heel slips now after break in and I find that I need to wear some ezeefit ankle booties to stop it. I know I have narrow little heels/ankles, and there wasn't much of an option to try other widths of skates, so how much difference is there between a Supreme D width and a EE width (original TotalOne skates). I am in an EE at the moment, would there be a great reduction in width / volume from the EE down to the D to gain the advantage of the smaller heel cup size?

I will continue to use the current skates as with the ankle booties there are no issues now, but thinking more for the (hopefully distant) future and also my son, who has the same foot as me, although much smaller (he's 8). Also are there any really good LHS between JFK and Pittsburgh (inclusive) for skate fittings as we are going to be over there at the end of the year and both my son and wife will be getting new skates, we were intending on stopping at Monkey Sports in Woodbridge, NJ on the way.

Sorry to take it a little off topic.

Brett

You wont gain width in the heel from an d to an ee. these sizes are for the toe area only; you would need to custom order heel size to change the width from what an lhs will have. Heel widths are sized in the letter A, AA, etc, I believe.

Best bet would be to try a skate with a different heel shape and or width. Graf does a good job with explaining how the heel, width and depth changes with each model. the tricky thing withe heel is that nit only us the width important, but the shape depending on if you have a straight or protruding heel shape.

[smcgreg 81]

You wont gain width in the heel from an d to an ee. these sizes are for the toe area only; you would need to custom order heel size to change the width from what an lhs will have. Heel widths are sized in the letter A, AA, etc, I believe.

Best bet would be to try a skate with a different heel shape and or width. Graf does a good job with explaining how the heel, width and depth changes with each model. the tricky thing withe heel is that nit only us the width important, but the shape depending on if you have a straight or protruding heel shape.

Well, I made this point previously in this thread, I believe. I am a full size smaller in a Supreme EE vs D (TOs). I wear a 7 EE and can't even get my foot into a 7D length wise and have trouble with 7.5D cuz my toes are so scrunched up in the toe box. That being said, I ended up going pro stock in E because the EE are too wide. The question is, with baking, could a 7D open up enough in the heel? I dunno since IME, a shop won't bake Supremes before trying on.

It was my impression this phenomenon was related to heel width. NOt sure what else it could be since I've observed it on several different occasions while trying on TOs and with the models I actually owned.

[giogolf 9]

Well, I made this point previously in this thread, I believe. I am a full size smaller in a Supreme EE vs D (TOs). I wear a 7 EE and can't even get my foot into a 7D length wise and have trouble with 7.5D cuz my toes are so scrunched up in the toe box. That being said, I ended up going pro stock in E because the EE are too wide. The question is, with baking, could a 7D open up enough in the heel? I dunno since IME, a shop won't bake Supremes before trying on.

It was my impression this phenomenon was related to heel width. NOt sure what else it could be since I've observed it on several different occasions while trying on TOs and with the models I actually owned.

Is this all related to the TotalOne Supreme or did you try different sizes in different supreme models?

The heel will remain the same size in D and EE widths for retail TotalOnes. Supremes have some of the tightest fitting heels out of all Bauer high end models out of the box.

[smcgreg 81]

Is this all related to the TotalOne Supreme or did you try different sizes in different supreme models?

The heel will remain the same size in D and EE widths for retail TotalOnes. Supremes have some of the tightest fitting heels out of all Bauer high end models out of the box.

I tried One100s and TOs. The issue is clearly present in TOs 7.5D and 7E/EE (for me). The back story is that I got back into it after 20 yr. I got 7.5D TOs (actually a Xmas present from the wife) thinking they fit. After a while I couldn't take the width anymore. When looking at a wider skate I found I could fit into a 7EE comfortably. After further investigation, 7E was still wide enough, but not as sloppy as the EE. There is absolutely no way I could fit into a 7.0D, that is, before baking for the models I've tried on. Like I said, I don't know if the heel of a D would open up after baking or not. I don't have the inside info on Supreme construction, just know what I've tried and what fit/didn't fit.