P88 vs PM9?

[syinx 139]

I've seen a lot of topics regarding these two patterns, but never any that specifically spoke about going from the P88 to the PM9. I ordered in the PM9 because they lacked the P88 Curve in the TotalOne NXG, and I really needed a spare stick in fast (my warranty-gone stick snapped, leaving my back up as my main). So what's the shot/passing difference like?

Also, a female friend of mine is expecting to start hockey, and will have to order some of her stuff online. She's asking me if there is a different in the length of the blade between the INT and JR sticks, and by how much?

[Megamandan 0]

The lie is slightly lower (which is why I cannot use the PM9) and your stick handling will be a tad tougher, but it shouldn't be too much different. The PM9 is more closed so raising shots may be slightly more difficult as well. Your backhands should be slightly easier. Passing shouldn't be too affected. The lie will be the most different, if you like to stickhandle close to your body, it is going to be tough to use. When I made the switch from an Easton P7 (Iginla) to the PM9 (Camalleri) my blade was never flush, but it's all about your style.

[bradd94 5]

You'd probably be able to get more loft on your shots with the P88 while the PM9 stays a tad bit lower.

The two patterns feel comparable in my book but I like the lower lie of the PM9. I prefer the passing sweet spot on the PM9 because the blade (feels) alot longer, although I actually haven't set the two aside. The P88 is an average blade but good for stickhandling in my book.

The PM9 is fine if you stickhandle close to your body as long as you are low to the ice.

EDIT: And properly cut your stick. A stick shouldn't be above chin height unless you play defenseman, but it should be several inches below the chin. Must be low to the ice, obviously, while using a Lie 5. Common sense.

Even for a female I wouldn't go for a Junior stick because it's going to snap like crazy. If she is anywhere around 5'8 like me I would go with the Int.

[McDugan 89]

I've used both the Harrow #1 (PM9 clone) and #5 (not exact clone of P88 but similar) and I found the PM9 to be fantastic for accurate passing, backhands, and low shots, the downside of it being that the blade is a bit short and I had trouble lifting the puck with it (but I'd probably be better at that now that I've got more experience in general). On the other hand, the deeper curve of the #5/P88 allowed for much greater ease with regard to puck control and a little more zip on my shots, with the only downside for me being I had a little more trouble sending really accurate passes. Between the two, I think I was more at ease with the #5 right off the bat, but I want to mess with the #1 again to see if my skills have improved to the point of being able to make good use of it.

[chippa13 1844]

I'd love to know how a deep-ish mid curve is comparable to a shallow-ish mid-heel. The lower lie of the PM9 would mean you would have to cut it pretty short to stick handle close to your body. The PM9 is actually a shorter blade than the P88.

[bradd94 5]

I'd love to know how a deep-ish mid curve is comparable to a shallow-ish mid-heel. The lower lie of the PM9 would mean you would have to cut it pretty short to stick handle close to your body. The PM9 is actually a shorter blade than the P88.

Most NHL players cut their sticks several inches below their chin or chest height. Go to cuthockeysticks.com

If you're using a stick heigher than chin height and not a defenseman, obviously it's going to be difficult. I use an Int. PM9 cut down several inches below my chin and have no problem. If you have your stick glued to your hip or use a longer Alex Semin like stick you will not have success with the PM9. Simple. The curve and lie is built for players who cut their sticks short, get low to the ice, and like a full range of motion of moving the puck. Which is exactly how I, and many NHL players, play the game (Crosby/Ovechkin/Backstrom/etc).

There is a reason many people have commented on saying how it is an all-around great curve. That's because they know how to cut a stick. People say it's preference but I don't buy it, you're getting the whip and reach out of a stick but severely limiting your mobility, puckhandling, and vision, the most important parts of the sport.

I prefer the passing sweet spot on the PM9 because the blade (feels) alot longer, although I actually haven't set the two aside.

The PM9 is fine if you stickhandle close to your body as long as you are low to the ice.

EDIT: And properly cut your stick

There.

[hyster110 3]

Most NHL players cut their sticks several inches below their chin or chest height. Go to cuthockeysticks.com

If you're using a stick heigher than chin height and not a defenseman, obviously it's going to be difficult. I use an Int. PM9 cut down several inches below my chin and have no problem. If you have your stick glued to your hip or use a longer Alex Semin like stick you will not have success with the PM9. Simple. The curve and lie is built for players who cut their sticks short, get low to the ice, and like a full range of motion of moving the puck. Which is exactly how I, and many NHL players, play the game (Crosby/Ovechkin/Backstrom/etc).

There is a reason many people have commented on saying how it is an all-around great curve. That's because they know how to cut a stick. People say it's preference but I don't buy it, you're getting the whip and reach out of a stick but severely limiting your mobility, puckhandling, and vision, the most important parts of the sport.

i dont believe that is as accurate anymore as it used to be, as some people prefer longer sticks and some use them as a necessity for their jobs. for example, there is a 3rd line center, whos name escapes me that used a longer stick for defensive pokechecking and such. the truth is that with any stick, as long as you put the work in an practice, you can become proficient in using it. does a stick length change your ability to do certain things yes, but it can also enhance them, its all about finding what your comfortable with and what you like best.

and i used a longer stick with a pm9 and i did just fine with it,

[bradd94 5]

i dont believe that is as accurate anymore as it used to be, as some people prefer longer sticks and some use them as a necessity for their jobs. for example, there is a 3rd line center, whos name escapes me that used a longer stick for defensive pokechecking and such. the truth is that with any stick, as long as you put the work in an practice, you can become proficient in using it. does a stick length change your ability to do certain things yes, but it can also enhance them, its all about finding what your comfortable with and what you like best.

and i used a longer stick with a pm9 and i did just fine with it,

Some players do use longer sticks and have grown with them. Datsyuk uses a really long stick and is the best puckhandler in the world. Most NHL forwards though, on average, use shorter sticks than what kids use these days.

What I was referring to was the notion that with the PM9 you can't do "both" and carry the puck away and in close to your body. You can if you cut the stick to the "proper" position. If you don't it's like any other Lie 5 stick, where you carry the puck away from the body for the blade to sit flat.

I cut my sticks short and use a Lie 5 since I feel it gives me this edge, I can carry the puck wherever I want to since I stay low to the ice and have a lower lie.

[215BroadStBullies610 434]

I for one like a longer stick. Since I'm right-handed and shoot right, my lower (right) hand tends to grip towards the middle of the shaft when stick-handling. This way, I can use a P88 (lie 6) with an uncut stick (60"). I actually have experimented with Warrior +3 sticks and liked it better for shooting. There is no exact science. I'm 5'11" and don't mind using a stick close to my height.

[Chadd 916]

I've seen a lot of topics regarding these two patterns, but never any that specifically spoke about going from the P88 to the PM9. I ordered in the PM9 because they lacked the P88 Curve in the TotalOne NXG, and I really needed a spare stick in fast (my warranty-gone stick snapped, leaving my back up as my main). So what's the shot/passing difference like?

Also, a female friend of mine is expecting to start hockey, and will have to order some of her stuff online. She's asking me if there is a different in the length of the blade between the INT and JR sticks, and by how much?

P88 is "easier" to lift the puck when trying to pick corners in close, you can adjust to that with a little practice. Just exaggerate your motion a little more and it should work for you. Passing is much easier with the PM9, as is catching passes, especially on the backhand.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 132]

I know I started a thread on a happy-medium between these two curves, but I can't seem to find it.

PM9 I found I loved the passing and low-shots. But I really had to exaggerate and add some snap to my wrists to go top shelf, especially in close.

[chippa13 1844]

Some players do use longer sticks and have grown with them. Datsyuk uses a really long stick and is the best puckhandler in the world. Most NHL forwards though, on average, use shorter sticks than what kids use these days.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

[flyguy1 1]

You'd probably be able to get more loft on your shots with the P88 while the PM9 stays a tad bit lower.

The two patterns feel comparable in my book but I like the lower lie of the PM9. I prefer the passing sweet spot on the PM9 because the blade (feels) alot longer, although I actually haven't set the two aside. The P88 is an average blade but good for stickhandling in my book.

The PM9 is fine if you stickhandle close to your body as long as you are low to the ice.

EDIT: And properly cut your stick. A stick shouldn't be above chin height unless you play defenseman, but it should be several inches below the chin. Must be low to the ice, obviously, while using a Lie 5. Common sense.

Even for a female I wouldn't go for a Junior stick because it's going to snap like crazy. If she is anywhere around 5'8 like me I would go with the Int.

Most NHL players cut their sticks several inches below their chin or chest height. Go to cuthockeysticks.com

If you're using a stick heigher than chin height and not a defenseman, obviously it's going to be difficult. I use an Int. PM9 cut down several inches below my chin and have no problem. If you have your stick glued to your hip or use a longer Alex Semin like stick you will not have success with the PM9. Simple. The curve and lie is built for players who cut their sticks short, get low to the ice, and like a full range of motion of moving the puck. Which is exactly how I, and many NHL players, play the game (Crosby/Ovechkin/Backstrom/etc).

There is a reason many people have commented on saying how it is an all-around great curve. That's because they know how to cut a stick. People say it's preference but I don't buy it, you're getting the whip and reach out of a stick but severely limiting your mobility, puckhandling, and vision, the most important parts of the sport.

There.

Some players do use longer sticks and have grown with them. Datsyuk uses a really long stick and is the best puckhandler in the world. Most NHL forwards though, on average, use shorter sticks than what kids use these days.

What I was referring to was the notion that with the PM9 you can't do "both" and carry the puck away and in close to your body. You can if you cut the stick to the "proper" position. If you don't it's like any other Lie 5 stick, where you carry the puck away from the body for the blade to sit flat.

I cut my sticks short and use a Lie 5 since I feel it gives me this edge, I can carry the puck wherever I want to since I stay low to the ice and have a lower lie.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but please explain the

"The PM9 is fine if you stickhandle close to your body as long as you are low to the ice."

I've been using a P14 Lie 6 and feel real comfortable stick handling and puck control. I picked up a PM9 (RS P4 curve lie 5). My P14 and P92 that I have are both cut below my nose, above my upper lip in shoes. The PM9 is currently about 1"-1.25" longer than my P14 and P92. Since it is a lower lie I didn't know what to expect and didn't want to hack away. The stick was way too long and did not have puck control in close. After 1 period I switched back because I couldn't control the puck as well. I only used once so I still need to get used to the new lie, but you are saying if I cut it based on the cuthockeysticks.com, I will be able to stick handle close to body as I do with my p14 Lie 6?

[Chadd 916]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but please explain the

"The PM9 is fine if you stickhandle close to your body as long as you are low to the ice."

I've been using a P14 Lie 6 and feel real comfortable stick handling and puck control. I picked up a PM9 (RS P4 curve lie 5). My P14 and P92 that I have are both cut below my nose, above my upper lip. The PM9 is currently about 1"-1.25" longer than my P14 and P92. Since it is a lower lie I didn't know what to expect and didn't want to hack away. The stick was way too long and did not have puck control in close. After 1 period I switched back because I couldn't control the puck as well. I only used once so I still need to get used to the new lie, but you are saying if I cut it based on the cuthockeysticks.com, I will be able to stick handle close to body as I do with my p14 Lie 6?

The PM9 is a lower lie, and by it's very nature isn't as good for handling the puck tight to your body/feet. To get a similar feel to the P92, it will need to be an inch or two longer than the P92, making it even harder to handle in your feet. If you cut it shorter, you will have to change where you hold your hands and potentially even your posture in order to get the blade flat on the ice. Unless you skate hunched over, I would not cut your stick at your collarbone.

[bradd94 5]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but please explain the

"The PM9 is fine if you stickhandle close to your body as long as you are low to the ice."

I've been using a P14 Lie 6 and feel real comfortable stick handling and puck control. I picked up a PM9 (RS P4 curve lie 5). My P14 and P92 that I have are both cut below my nose, above my upper lip. The PM9 is currently about 1"-1.25" longer than my P14 and P92. Since it is a lower lie I didn't know what to expect and didn't want to hack away. The stick was way too long and did not have puck control in close. After 1 period I switched back because I couldn't control the puck as well. I only used once so I still need to get used to the new lie, but you are saying if I cut it based on the cuthockeysticks.com, I will be able to stick handle close to body as I do with my p14 Lie 6?

It's fine if you cut your stick several inches below your chin.

I don't know why other people keep saying you have to skate hunched over, you don't. It's all in the knee bend. Ovechkin and Backstrom both use extremely short sticks, neither skates like a caveman or my grandma. I like to cut my sticks near the bottom of my atom's apple on skates. This works fine with the PM9, don't believe me? Try it.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Pictures? Websites? You act like I'm saying something revolutionary here. I made a comment on stick length. This has been known to pro players for years.

I actually do my research before posting. I've known this for quite some time now. Take your favorite NHL team, I'd bet you over half of the forwards use shorter sticks compared to what kids are using now (which sometimes reach above their mouth in skates). I've had several of my friends use sticks ABOVE their nose in skates. Here I'll take my team (to name a few)

Perreault

Backstrom

Ovechkin

Chimera

Johansson

EDIT: Back to the thread, if you cut the PM9 shorter and sit close to the ice you really don't need to make THAT much of an adjustment in hand positioning to lay it flat on the ice close to your body and away. I'll take a picture if you guys don't believe me.

[flyguy1 1]

The PM9 is a lower lie, and by it's very nature isn't as good for handling the puck tight to your body/feet. To get a similar feel to the P92, it will need to be an inch or two longer than the P92, making it even harder to handle in your feet. If you cut it shorter, you will have to change where you hold your hands and potentially even your posture in order to get the blade flat on the ice. Unless you skate hunched over, I would not cut your stick at your collarbone.

Wow, I guess my stick is about that much longer than the p92 and felt way too long. It's not that I want it to play like the p92 or p14, but just wanted to go off the comment above that is underlined. I will check tape wear and make the proper adjustment. Pretty sure there is more heel wear but my shot did kick.

[tvaughan4 16]

I use a PM9 and also use a shorter stick, between my collarbone and adams apple. I've found the combination of the short stick and the low lie to be great. It's all personal preference though. It works for me (I think) because I stick handle with my top hand out in front of me, and I have a decent knee bend, although it is getting worse and worse every year... I think if I had my top hand more around my hip, like some guys I see, I would definitely use a taller stick and higher lie. It's all in how you play. You can't just say, "everyone cut your stick to 'x' length", there's no "right" answer. Everyone has to figure it out for their own playing style.

And to stay a bit on topic with the thread title, I don't see how a PM9 and P88 are at all comparable. Two completely different curves in my opinion.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 132]

I'd say almost all the sticks you see stocked on shelves from bauer are usually p88, pm9 or p92. I rarely see anything else. So I guess it's not too far of a stretch to compare them.

[Larry54 243]

I'd say almost all the sticks you see stocked on shelves from bauer are usually p88, pm9 or p92. I rarely see anything else. So I guess it's not too far of a stretch to compare them.

What exactly are you saying? That the they are the 3 most commonly stocked because they are similar? Or because they provide for as wide a variety as we need?

[chippa13 1844]

It's fine if you cut your stick several inches below your chin.

I don't know why other people keep saying you have to skate hunched over, you don't. It's all in the knee bend. Ovechkin and Backstrom both use extremely short sticks, neither skates like a caveman or my grandma. I like to cut my sticks near the bottom of my atom's apple on skates. This works fine with the PM9, don't believe me? Try it.

Pictures? Websites? You act like I'm saying something revolutionary here. I made a comment on stick length. This has been known to pro players for years.

I actually do my research before posting. I've known this for quite some time now. Take your favorite NHL team, I'd bet you over half of the forwards use shorter sticks compared to what kids are using now (which sometimes reach above their mouth in skates). I've had several of my friends use sticks ABOVE their nose in skates. Here I'll take my team (to name a few)

Perreault

Backstrom

Ovechkin

Chimera

Johansson

EDIT: Back to the thread, if you cut the PM9 shorter and sit close to the ice you really don't need to make THAT much of an adjustment in hand positioning to lay it flat on the ice close to your body and away. I'll take a picture if you guys don't believe me.

Trust me, I don't believe you're saying anything revolutionary.

You're right, if you cut the PM9 short and change the way you skate then you are correct, you don't have to move your hands that much. However, your stick should be tailored to match the way you skate, not the other way around.

[bradd94 5]

Trust me, I don't believe you're saying anything revolutionary.

You're right, if you cut the PM9 short and change the way you skate then you are correct, you don't have to move your hands that much. However, your stick should be tailored to match the way you skate, not the other way around.

Slight hand positioning

Deeper knee bend

Shortened stick

Not that much to change to make you, in my opinion, a better player. All these increase puck vision and handling, along with speed, agility, and balance. So you really are improving your skating stance and not just "tailoring off a curve". To have the lie pretty much flat in all directions is a significant advantage. Pair that up with the PM9 and it is deadly. If you don't, you're missing out. Try not to parse words next time.

I still think that PM9 > P88 and I hope Bauer has it for years. It's great for passing and puckhandling, while good for slapshots too. Like many people have said, it's a great all around curve.

[Chadd 916]

Slight hand positioning

Deeper knee bend

Shortened stick

Not that much to change to make you, in my opinion, a better player. All these increase puck vision and handling, along with speed, agility, and balance. So you really are improving your skating stance and not just "tailoring off a curve". To have the lie pretty much flat in all directions is a significant advantage. Pair that up with the PM9 and it is deadly. If you don't, you're missing out. Try not to parse words next time.

I still think that PM9 > P88 and I hope Bauer has it for years. It's great for passing and puckhandling, while good for slapshots too. Like many people have said, it's a great all around curve.

Skating hunched over does not improve "puck vision", nor does it increase balance. Deeper knee bend alone is not going to be enough to make a PM9 cut at your collar bone work for the vast majority of people. It all depends on the player and their body type/skating style. What is "best" for you, may be wholly inappropriate for someone else, especially people that you have never seen play.

[bradd94 5]

Skating hunched over does not improve "puck vision", nor does it increase balance. Deeper knee bend alone is not going to be enough to make a PM9 cut at your collar bone work for the vast majority of people. It all depends on the player and their body type/skating style. What is "best" for you, may be wholly inappropriate for someone else, especially people that you have never seen play.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself..

I said if you want to stickhandle in close to your body with the PM9 it needs to be cut shorter, as most NHL forwards cut their sticks. You can or you can't. You can still use it as a regular curve and stickhandle away from the body but like I said, you're missing out in my opinion.

How does it not increase puck vision? The closer you are to the ice the better you can see the puck in your peripheral vision. Try standing straight up, then bending your knees closer and closer to the ice. The puck is more noticeable. Go tell Ovechkin he "hunches over" since he uses a smaller stick than you probably do.

This thread is about the PM9 versus the P88. I simply made a suggestion that you can stickhandle close to your body if you cut the stick. The lie will be fine. Now move on people.

To the OP: The answer is how long you keep your sticks. If you keep your stick longer and want it close to the body, go P88. If you cut it shorter, cut it an inch or two xtra and go with the PM9.

[Chadd 916]

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself..

I said if you want to stickhandle in close to your body with the PM9 it needs to be cut shorter, as most NHL forwards cut their sticks. You can or you can't. You can still use it as a regular curve and stickhandle away from the body but like I said, you're missing out in my opinion.

How does it not increase puck vision? The closer you are to the ice the better you can see the puck in your peripheral vision. Try standing straight up, then bending your knees closer and closer to the ice. The puck is more noticeable. Go tell Ovechkin he "hunches over" since he uses a smaller stick than you probably do.

This thread is about the PM9 versus the P88. I simply made a suggestion that you can stickhandle close to your body if you cut the stick. The lie will be fine. Now move on people.

And I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself.

What NHL players do is pretty much irrelevant to 99% of the people that play hockey. Regardless of what people want to believe, the game is completely different at that level than at the level more people play. You're also treating your opinion as if it was fact, it is not. It is simply an opinion based on a personal preference. I've been around the game long enough to know that there are very few absolutes, this is simply another one of those cases. It has also been discussed dozens of times on this site alone. You aren't the only one that has that preference, but there are a lot of other people that have other preferences as well,

The closer the puck is to your feet, the less likely you are to be able to see very for ahead of you or to the sides. If you want to improve your ability to see the puck, and not get steamrolled, you actually want it farther away from your body.

As for Ovechkin, he is extremely hunched at the waist, it's not just knee bend. There are countless other guys that do the same thing, too. It's not right or wrong to me, it's a style and a preference.

I do agree with you on a couple things. One, if you cut the stick short enough, you can stick handle tight to your feet with a PM9. However, for most people, that stick is going to be far shorter than they will be comfortable using. And two: It's time to move along.