Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

[Playmakersedge 58]

21 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Okay, we get it. You think your sharpener is better. Let’s go ahead and leave this thread to discussion about the Sparx.

No that's not wtf I'm saying  . They are in two separate worlds . I'm saying manual sharpeners are not the magic most think.      I'm saying is if the automatic machine is used beyond doing the families skates the machine won't hold up to it .Like a team 16 pair twice a week problems are going to accur . I'm saying if this is the plan you would be better off with a manual machine. And sparx will be better off because they won't be stuck doing warranty work on machines that were essentially abused 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

44 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

Slice a plastic soda bottle and cut it slice it and put it on the posts 

I have edge protechs but they aren’t permitted during games. I had been using them for pickups until I had my own sharpener ;)

24 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

No that's not wtf I'm saying  . They are in two separate worlds . I'm saying manual sharpeners are not the magic most think.      I'm saying is if the automatic machine is used beyond doing the families skates the machine won't hold up to it .Like a team 16 pair twice a week problems are going to accur . I'm saying if this is the plan you would be better off with a manual machine. And sparx will be better off because they won't be stuck doing warranty work on machines that were essentially abused 

Yes but you keep posting about a manual sharpener being better. We get it. For those doing high volume they might want to try the commercial version.

I understand that not everyone is going to be in the market for a Sparx and prefer to do it manually. That’s fine. But this thread is for questions and discussion about Sparx and not the merits of manual vs Sparx sharpening. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

10 minutes ago, Stewie said:

until it breaks off after a shot, and someone doesn't see it on the ice, and their skate hits it, and then they fly head first into the boards.

Having actually, and not "theoretically" skated on a pair of skates that were cut by a demo sparx unit which had logged many sharpenings, including at least 12 right before mine,  no I would have no issues giving my skates to the LHS some towns over if I saw they were using one. My only issue with the Sparx is preference of the FBV cut over Fire cut, but in terms of quality, and consistency, id trust the Sparx over a lot of local sharpening jobs i've had. I am extremely lucky to have a shop within 30 minutes of me that produces at least 95% favorable results in my time using them, so the unit is not for me.

and to your point of someone in an area filling a need, this product fills a need that no other product or person can, creating an easy, out of the box experience that can save its end user time in not having to drive elsewhere, which to some people, is worth more than money, and space, as not everyone has room to setup a commercial unit, and attach it to a vacuum. The Sparx is about 50% larger than my printer.

Bottle:  shin guard tape .  I would ask an official first.   I said if you saw a cage 1 Or dupliskate. ..would you hand your skates over ..... I imagine the fbv is going to be available.      What's the fbv like  ?  

Ok is this thread a group of hockey people talking about pros and cons of a product?  Or is it about  juicing the product ?   

Every fn con I have spoken of,most in defense of the companies financial interests ; is being defended or responded to in a smart axx snarky way.  I'm not being that way to the inclusive you .    I hope sparx has a small processor in the machine to count how many passes the machine did over a period of time so they can tell the machine was doing work it wasn't designed to do .    

[marka 526]

Howdy,

I think pros and cons are fine.

I started where you are in terms of skepticism.  But after getting a chance to see one, talk with a rep for a long time, and have my skates done by it, I was more convinced.  Then after seeing what average good sharpening had done to one of my steel set's profile, plus factoring in "sharpen whenever I want", I bought one.

In terms of volume of sharpening, Sparx seems to think 1600 sharpenings per year is fine for their home unit, so I think your assumptions on durability might be a little pessimistic.  They've also been out since what, 2015 I think?  So there are units out there with a lot of use on them and at least so far I havne't heard of wear / durability issues.  Again, I think you might be a bit pessimistic.

Maybe find someone that has one and check it out, since you're in the business?

Mark

[Playmakersedge 58]

Another thing I'm trying to say is if we want the lhs to be there for proper skate fitting, changing a holder ,all the other stuff that you absolutely need them for ,you gotta give them business or they won't be there much longer  .  

[IPv6Freely 2093]

1 minute ago, Playmakersedge said:

Another thing I'm trying to say is if we want the lhs to be there for proper skate fitting, changing a holder ,all the other stuff that you absolutely need them for ,you gotta give them business or they won't be there much longer  .  

I’m not giving somebody business who messes up my skates. The Sparx does a great job so I’ll stick to that. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

3 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

Another thing I'm trying to say is if we want the lhs to be there for proper skate fitting, changing a holder ,all the other stuff that you absolutely need them for ,you gotta give them business or they won't be there much longer  .  

I would be really interested in knowing if skate services like sharpening or repair is a profit center for a LHS.  Given the costs, I have a hard time thinking it is, but ??

Mark

[Playmakersedge 58]

37 minutes ago, marka said:

Howdy,

I would be really interested in knowing if skate services like sharpening or repair is a profit center for a LHS.  Given the costs, I have a hard time thinking it is, but ??

Mark

 

Changing blade holders the rivit arbor is 600 labor to change holders 100 margins on the holder and steels 20% . Laces ,tape,sticks, skate,pads brobably average 30% to 40%margins.     The sharpening is gravy after the 170 pair  , put a pair of laces and three rolls of tape with a sharpening 40 in the register in 10 minutes . In my area there is 4 times the hockey played now then from when I was a kid . There is one lhs in about 400 square feet , barely hanging on .  Then there is the giant . When I was a kid there were two lhs that had inventory one had two sharpening machines, had a 1500 square foot sho.  Another one about the same ,less inventory  about same size .  They did well  . Now there gone  . 

[Stewie 721]

1 hour ago, Playmakersedge said:

Bottle:  shin guard tape .  I would ask an official first.   I said if you saw a cage 1 Or dupliskate. ..would you hand your skates over ..... I imagine the fbv is going to be available.      What's the fbv like  ?  

Ok is this thread a group of hockey people talking about pros and cons of a product?  Or is it about  juicing the product ?   

Every fn con I have spoken of,most in defense of the companies financial interests ; is being defended or responded to in a smart axx snarky way.  I'm not being that way to the inclusive you .    I hope sparx has a small processor in the machine to count how many passes the machine did over a period of time so they can tell the machine was doing work it wasn't designed to do .    

the FBV will not be available on the Sparx as it is proprietary to Blackstone. Im very surprised that as someone who sharpens skates, you don't know what the FBV is.

The biggest issue people have is that you are discussing cons of a product you have never used, seen operated in person, and have only the base knowledge of watching a couple of youtube videos on.

They are very clear on their site which model to choose for your needs. Commercial end users are directed to their commercial model. Their base model is warrantied for 1 year or 10000 cycles and their commercial unit is unlimited cycles.

[Stewie 721]

1 hour ago, marka said:

Howdy,

I would be really interested in knowing if skate services like sharpening or repair is a profit center for a LHS.  Given the costs, I have a hard time thinking it is, but ??

Mark

seems like the wrong topic for that discussion

[Playmakersedge 58]

4 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

I’m not giving somebody business who messes up my skates. The Sparx does a great job so I’ll stick to that. 

No you can't have your skates ruined.  Im saying if the person is good and he or she is gradually losing business to home machines being use for convenience only. Not because the guy at the shop sucks.   If the person is bad at grinding skates, probably bad at the other aspects.  That person deserves to go under . Because it's not hard to do a nice job.   It's so easy. It should never be messed up .  

And I realize you can't police why some one buys it  . I get that .And if shops are doing hack work they shouldn't stay doing it .    And to advocate for sparks, I think it's a good product and does what it' designed to do well I watched it work.      What worries me for the company is taking machines back that were abused.   I know if that was in my school locker room every player would have fresh edges every time we went on the ice . 17 pair every day for 3 months season  1750 sharpening and if the have a lower level team  say that's 1500 one school 3,250 sharpening a season.   You use it do you think it will survive that ?

Edited December 8, 2017 by Playmakersedge
Added info

[Playmakersedge 58]

3 hours ago, Stewie said:

the FBV will not be available on the Sparx as it is proprietary to Blackstone. Im very surprised that as someone who sharpens skates, you don't know what the FBV is.

The biggest issue people have is that you are discussing cons of a product you have never used, seen operated in person, and have only the base knowledge of watching a couple of youtube videos on.

They are very clear on their site which model to choose for your needs. Commercial end users are directed to their commercial model. Their base model is warrantied for 1 year or 10000 cycles and their commercial unit is unlimited cycles.

Black stone sells a stand alone wheel dresser that can work on other machines with tables.  So being they sell there device to dress wheels on other brands; I bet they would be willing to create a wheel to fit sparks so they create another revenue source. It is a no brainer if that many people want it for a Sparx machine.  It's a win. Win for both companies.  

My machine  doesn't have a table to mount the black stone spinner assembly.   I would have to make a mount.   I have never skated on the fbv  nor have I machined it in a skate.   I would like to see how that hollow  feels  .  

 

 

[Playmakersedge 58]

3 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

Black stone sells a stand alone wheel dresser that can work on other machines with tables.  So being they sell there device to dress wheels on other brands; I bet they would be willing to create a wheel to fit sparks so they create another revenue source. It is a no brainer if that many people want it for a Sparx machine.  It's a win. Win for both companies.  

My machine  doesn't have a table to mount the black stone spinner assembly.   I would have to make a mount.   I have never skated on the fbv  nor have I machined it in a skate.   I would like to see how that hollow  feels  .  

 

 

Are both models the same price stewie? 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Is there an actual point you’re trying to make? It just seems like we’re beating a dead horse here.

[Playmakersedge 58]

10 hours ago, Stewie said:

seems like the wrong topic for that discussion

Agreed. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

3 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Is there an actual point you’re trying to make? It just seems like we’re beating a dead horse here.

Yeah agreed.  To respond to you on my point was trying to make is . If customer x sees one machine is $ and the other is $$  . If the home model is purchased and used to do heavy volume  , the company may see warranty claims that should be considered customer abuse.  And void the warranty.. I'm looking out for Sparx.  

[ryanmonty 35]

Looks like the machines are on back order. Must be busy with the holiday season. If it isn’t too invasive , on avg how many machines do they sell a month ? 

[Jamarquan 201]

15 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

 

Changing blade holders the rivit arbor is 600 labor to change holders 100 margins on the holder and steels 20% . Laces ,tape,sticks, skate,pads brobably average 30% to 40%margins.     The sharpening is gravy after the 170 pair  , put a pair of laces and three rolls of tape with a sharpening 40 in the register in 10 minutes . In my area there is 4 times the hockey played now then from when I was a kid . There is one lhs in about 400 square feet , barely hanging on .  Then there is the giant . When I was a kid there were two lhs that had inventory one had two sharpening machines, had a 1500 square foot sho.  Another one about the same ,less inventory  about same size .  They did well  . Now there gone  . 

I don’t know much about finance, but if hockey stores, especially local hockey stores, were getting from 20 to 40 percent margins on sticks I don’t think we’d have a problem with the shortage of local / smaller stores.

 

I could be wrong (or I could have misread).

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Let's keep this thread on track, folks. 

[Stewie 721]

11 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

Are both models the same price stewie? 

It doesn’t really matter, but no, they are not.

i pointed out that their warranty covers only a certain amount of passes in that first year, so not sure why you keep pointing out that people are going to abuse the system. If they were smart enough to program the wheels to know how many passes they have done, you can be pretty sure the unit has a way of knowing the total.

you don’t have to “look out” for Sparx. I’ve met Russ, he’s an intelligent guy.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

2 hours ago, Stewie said:

It doesn’t really matter, but no, they are not.

i pointed out that their warranty covers only a certain amount of passes in that first year, so not sure why you keep pointing out that people are going to abuse the system. If they were smart enough to program the wheels to know how many passes they have done, you can be pretty sure the unit has a way of knowing the total.

you don’t have to “look out” for Sparx. I’ve met Russ, he’s an intelligent guy.

He’s also an engineer, making suggestions or criticisms “as an engineer” pretty meaningless. 

That said, the fact that Russ was a MSH member is probably 60% of the reason I backed the project on Kickstarter in the first place.

[colins 246]

On 12/7/2017 at 10:54 PM, marka said:

In terms of volume of sharpening, Sparx seems to think 1600 sharpenings per year is fine for their home unit, so I think your assumptions on durability might be a little pessimistic.  They've also been out since what, 2015 I think?  So there are units out there with a lot of use on them and at least so far I havne't heard of wear / durability issues.  Again, I think you might be a bit pessimistic.

 

 

Sparx first shipped units to Kickstart backers around April 2016.

The Sparx guys are no dummies. They have done extensive testing of the product - to the point they even took the sharpener, put it in their Pelican carrying case, and dropped it like 200 times to see how durable the case was (https://youtu.be/j4eARLGSu3A).  They tested freezing the unit to see if it still operated fine (https://youtu.be/DJ6qq86mALA).

I invested in the Kickstarter early because I wanted my own sharpener and I had some extra cash on hand. They stumbled on execution - they shipped months later than they had planned. There were constant excuses as to why the product was going to be later than they thought. For a while I was wondering if I was going to need to get my money back from Kickstarter escrow. But they did ship. And they obviously worked really hard to build a product they were very satisfied and proud of before they shipped. And for me, its been everything I hoped it would be. Four hockey players in my house (my wife recently started playing too!) and our two kids and myself haven't skated on a non-perfect set of edges since I got it. We're totally spoiled. The worse it gets now is when the boys have a 4 or 5 game road tournament out of province, and for that I sharpen their skates and their spare blades and they can swap them out if necessary.

Anyone that wants to criticize the Sparx should consider whether they are talking from facts and hands on experience with the unit, or whether they are just using conjecture to throw out reasons why they think some other solution is better for certain scenarios. For anyone who sharpens 1600 pairs or less a year, so far I've seen zero evidence that the Sparx is anything but a really solid solution.

 

colins

 

 

[Playmakersedge 58]

2 hours ago, colins said:

 

Sparx first shipped units to Kickstart backers around April 2016.

The Sparx guys are no dummies. They have done extensive testing of the product - to the point they even took the sharpener, put it in their Pelican carrying case, and dropped it like 200 times to see how durable the case was (https://youtu.be/j4eARLGSu3A).  They tested freezing the unit to see if it still operated fine (https://youtu.be/DJ6qq86mALA).

I invested in the Kickstarter early because I wanted my own sharpener and I had some extra cash on hand. They stumbled on execution - they shipped months later than they had planned. There were constant excuses as to why the product was going to be later than they thought. For a while I was wondering if I was going to need to get my money back from Kickstarter escrow. But they did ship. And they obviously worked really hard to build a product they were very satisfied and proud of before they shipped. And for me, its been everything I hoped it would be. Four hockey players in my house (my wife recently started playing too!) and our two kids and myself haven't skated on a non-perfect set of edges since I got it. We're totally spoiled. The worse it gets now is when the boys have a 4 or 5 game road tournament out of province, and for that I sharpen their skates and their spare blades and they can swap them out if necessary.

Anyone that wants to criticize the Sparx should consider whether they are talking from facts and hands on experience with the unit, or whether they are just using conjecture to throw out reasons why they think some other solution is better for certain scenarios. For anyone who sharpens 1600 pairs or less a year, so far I've seen zero evidence that the Sparx is anything but a really solid solution.

 

colins

 

 

Colins,   I'm happy you love your machine   . And I want the machine and the company to thrive .  I'm a fan of the machine .   

My points  I have been doing a poor job of conveying are  (1) I don't want the company to get smothered with warranty claims from customer abuse (2) to the people buying it use it as it was designed a family home sharpener  (3) if you are buying a Sparx because you don't think you will be able to do the job on a manual machine, stop thinking that . It' not that hard  .anyone can do it . 

I have only good expectations for this machine . I actually reached out to the CEO and threw out a sales strategy that will increase market penetration by at least 40% . And another model idea  that saves even more time   .     

Real talk:  lots of people are dis honest : we know there will be machines being  abused.: from over use,from someone with I don't care not my $$$ attitude , from a team of players doing there skates every day .  We know machines are going to be purchased in a way that is going to be used as a family sharpener  ,then use for teams or divisions ,uve an entire YH organization . And if the machine breaks because of these things it won' be revealed to the company this is how it was used.   Some people are going to get one over on them . (4) not enough time has passed to prove longevity.. My opinion is if the machine is used for what it is intended for it will last along time.

[Leif 161]

I bet it records the number of passes and the value can be queried by Sparx to assess whether or not it has exceeded the warranty conditions. Technically that's easy to do since it has relatively sophisticated electronics inside. It could even be running Linux!!! 

So most of your concerns will not be an issue for Sparx. 

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

On 12/7/2017 at 9:29 PM, marka said:

Howdy,

I would be really interested in knowing if skate services like sharpening or repair is a profit center for a LHS.  Given the costs, I have a hard time thinking it is, but ??

Mark

It absolutely is.  It ends up being the highest profit margin in the store once the machine's paid off.