Child skate hallow issues

[jmiro 55]

First my boy is under fifty pounds.  He is new to skating and is doing extremely well.  The rink here is the only place to get skates sharpened without traveling an hour.  The guy that sharpens all the skates also does skating lesson.  He reccomended sharpening them to 1/2.  Then when he gave him a lesson he said they were too sharp and had him dull them on plastic.  His skating was noticeably better after that i.e. stops and crossovers.  But i am finding it hard to beleive they were too sharp?  Was the hallow wrong?  Reccomendations?  Why would you sharpen them just to turn around and dull them?  Thanks

[SCBlueLiner 19]

Had to be wrong.  I'm a grown man of considerable weight and I skate on 1/2".  For a 50 lb kid 1/2" cut should not be too sharp.  Most kids in our program that age and size go with a more aggressive 3/8".

[Kgbeast 195]

It is just one of these remedies that some coaches believe helps students to develop feel for ice shaving faster. Once the student gets comfortable shaving ice, the edge would be left alone.

[boo10 323]

If his skating improved after blunting the edges on plastic, then the hollow was too deep.  Have them sharpened at 5/8 and see how it goes.

[beanhead 22]

My daugther is 42lbs and skates on 5/8 summer 9/16 winter. She has no problems using her edges to turn or stopping quickly.

 

I see several kids who do a tight turn instead of shaving ice as their method of stopping. These kids are on too deep of a hollow.

[jmiro 55]

Thanks.  I will try 5/8.  You were accurate with him doing  almost sharp turns when when stopping.  Then when they were dulled down he started stopping better.  

[Zylos45 118]

all 3 of my kids started on 3/4ths.

my two oldest just went to 5/8ths this season with no problems

 

 

[jmiro 55]

He has only been skating since thanks giving.  He has progressed rather quickly according to his teachers.  He is on the ice most sat and sundays.  And on his inlines throughout the rest of the week. So i may try 5/8s

[krisdrum 233]

Wow, I am surprised by some of these recommendations.  I would have thought deeper hollow than most of you are suggesting.  I've been considering a ProSharp or Sparx and was thinking I would want to get a pretty deep grind for my 50+ lb 6 year old son. 

Heck, I'm 175 lbs and just started creeping up from 7/16 and 1/2 to 9/16.  Granted I am a pretty new skater, so maybe having more bite gives me more of a feel for edges vs. flat, but I would have never thought to put a kid 1/3 my size on a hollow way more shallow than I am on.  

Anyone have any thoughts on the rationale?  Or am I just on a hollow way too deep for me still?

[jimmy 194]

15 hours ago, krisdrum said:

Wow, I am surprised by some of these recommendations.  I would have thought deeper hollow than most of you are suggesting.  I've been considering a ProSharp or Sparx and was thinking I would want to get a pretty deep grind for my 50+ lb 6 year old son. 

Heck, I'm 175 lbs and just started creeping up from 7/16 and 1/2 to 9/16.  Granted I am a pretty new skater, so maybe having more bite gives me more of a feel for edges vs. flat, but I would have never thought to put a kid 1/3 my size on a hollow way more shallow than I am on.  

Anyone have any thoughts on the rationale?  Or am I just on a hollow way too deep for me still?

The rationale is new skaters have not learned how to use edges, too much bite causes a host of problems while trying to learn. Deeper hollows not leaned at the proper angle will grab the ice too much, cause falls, uncontrolability, chattering, and a uneasy feeling while trying to stop. So for beginners a shallow hollow is better, as they improve and learn edge control, it then can be deepened in increments.

[krisdrum 233]

48 minutes ago, jimmy said:

The rationale is new skaters have not learned how to use edges, too much bite causes a host of problems while trying to learn. Deeper hollows not leaned at the proper angle will grab the ice too much, cause falls, uncontrolability, chattering, and a uneasy feeling while trying to stop. So for beginners a shallow hollow is better, as they improve and learn edge control, it then can be deepened in increments.

Well damn.  I was told the opposite when I started skating.  Shop I went to suggested a deeper hollow to "give me more bite, to help me feel in control".  I'm pretty convinced too deep a hollow was at least partially to blame for my dislocated knee this summer.  Hence moving to a shallower hollow.  I've always struggled with feeling comfortable stopping and sliding the blades (instead of carving a turn) and chattering and wobble on occasion.  9/16 has felt much better, but I am just starting to get back on skates after the knee injury, so... time will tell.  Maybe I need to go even shallower to push that upper limit of the balance between bite and glide.  

[Arch 0]

39 minutes ago, krisdrum said:

Well damn.  I was told the opposite when I started skating.  Shop I went to suggested a deeper hollow to "give me more bite, to help me feel in control".  I'm pretty convinced too deep a hollow was at least partially to blame for my dislocated knee this summer.  Hence moving to a shallower hollow.  I've always struggled with feeling comfortable stopping and sliding the blades (instead of carving a turn) and chattering and wobble on occasion.  9/16 has felt much better, but I am just starting to get back on skates after the knee injury, so... time will tell.  Maybe I need to go even shallower to push that upper limit of the balance between bite and glide.  

Changing from a 9' to an 11' radius on my blades gave me a much greater feel of control than using a deeper hollow did. It just sucks that it costs so much more to have them re-profiled.

[Kgbeast 195]

50 minutes ago, krisdrum said:

Well damn.  I was told the opposite when I started skating.  Shop I went to suggested a deeper hollow to "give me more bite, to help me feel in control".  I'm pretty convinced too deep a hollow was at least partially to blame for my dislocated knee this summer.  Hence moving to a shallower hollow.  I've always struggled with feeling comfortable stopping and sliding the blades (instead of carving a turn) and chattering and wobble on occasion.  9/16 has felt much better, but I am just starting to get back on skates after the knee injury, so... time will tell.  Maybe I need to go even shallower to push that upper limit of the balance between bite and glide.  

They are not entirely wrong. With deeper hollow, you get more control during crossovers and tight turns and just general skating. If you a light(ish) guy on hard ice who still learns skating, you probably will start loosing edge when you crossover a circle. Yes, doing a hockey stop is harder with deeper hollow, but it is a call for balance between the two things IMO. It kind of squashes your confidence level when you try to hightail around the behind of the net and feel that your skates are sliding sideways from under you.

[Larry54 243]

I weigh around 140-145 lbs these days and I just went from 5/8" to 11/16" and have skated 5 times on this new hollow. I've noticed that I need to lean my skates a bit more in general to make sure I get enough bite on certain turns. I can see how shallower hollows might not work for someone who ties his skates tightly all the way to the top since that would limit the ankle mobility required to roll the ankles and use the edges properly. I haven't yet decided whether I'll keep this hollow at my next sharpening or go back to 5/8".

[boo10 323]

I'm a firm believer that nobody should be skating on anything deeper than 5/8.  Took me 40 years to come to that conclusion, but that's just my opinion.

[beanhead 22]

18 hours ago, boo10 said:

I'm a firm believer that nobody should be skating on anything deeper than 5/8.  Took me 40 years to come to that conclusion, but that's just my opinion.

Agreed. 5/8 provides plenty of bite when the technique is correct.

[krisdrum 233]

46 minutes ago, beanhead said:

Agreed. 5/8 provides plenty of bite when the technique is correct.

Regardless of skater weight? 

[beanhead 22]

1 hour ago, krisdrum said:

Regardless of skater weight? 

My little one is 42 lbs and skates just fine on 5/8. I am a light weight myself at 135 lbs and use 7/8. I do not experience any loss of bite during turns some some skaters speak of.

 

I think having young skaters on shallow hollows helps them find their edges better. With a deep hollow, you have a lot of bite whether you want it or not. With a shallow hollow you have more control over how much bite you want. You want more bite... angle the blade more. Less bite... angle less.

 

This all my opinion only. I am sure there will be others who disagree.

 

 

[GunRunner 28]

I coach a Squirt House team and all of my kids or on the 90/75 FBV which is equivalent to or supposed to be comparable to 3/4 ROH.  I have kids that are good skaters, to kids that are only in their second year skating and are not good skaters.  None of them struggle with the more shallow cut and I feel that if they can learn their edges on more shallow cut, it will benefit them in the long run and make them better skaters.  Some of my kids are even in the 50-60 lbs. range and they do good on it.  Just my 2 cents

[jmiro 55]

Thanks too all for the 5/8 th recommendation. My kid is actually a pretty good skater considering he started thanksgiving ish.  

To contine this story i went to the rink asked the kid that sharpens them for a 5/8 he gave me a lecture on thats not a hallow for a kid.  He sharpened the to 1/2 again.  Take him to his skatining lesson he is all over the place. After words he says they are gripping on way sliding the other.  The only other place to get them sharpened is 2 hours away.  So i drive to that shop.  Kid looks at the skates there is no edge on the inside and the grinds all wavy.  Tell him the same thing i posted here.  He once again gives me th he 1/2 inch lecture.  I get him to cut them to 5/8 against their advice as he made it known and was telling the other guy as he sharpens them.  He had a learn to play hockey program today.  Took him early to a public skate to try them out.  He did great at the program.  Looked like a different skater than the day before.  No dulling them up.  No issues with cross overs or stopping.  My mother even commented he looked like a different skater. 

Now the issue is having to drive two hours one way just to get skates sharpened.   

If i get an extra steel is there some where i can send just the steel ot gt sharpened?  Obviously I am not taking them back to the rink.

[PaulD63 1]

No Icing they do a great job, players send their blades from all over the country for sharpening and custom radius. Check out their web site for the info on sending blades http://www.noicingsports.com/

[beanhead 22]

13 hours ago, jmiro said:

Thanks too all for the 5/8 th recommendation. My kid is actually a pretty good skater considering he started thanksgiving ish.  

To contine this story i went to the rink asked the kid that sharpens them for a 5/8 he gave me a lecture on thats not a hallow for a kid.  He sharpened the to 1/2 again.  Take him to his skatining lesson he is all over the place. After words he says they are gripping on way sliding the other.  The only other place to get them sharpened is 2 hours away.  So i drive to that shop.  Kid looks at the skates there is no edge on the inside and the grinds all wavy.  Tell him the same thing i posted here.  He once again gives me th he 1/2 inch lecture.  I get him to cut them to 5/8 against their advice as he made it known and was telling the other guy as he sharpens them.  He had a learn to play hockey program today.  Took him early to a public skate to try them out.  He did great at the program.  Looked like a different skater than the day before.  No dulling them up.  No issues with cross overs or stopping.  My mother even commented he looked like a different skater. 

Now the issue is having to drive two hours one way just to get skates sharpened.   

If i get an extra steel is there some where i can send just the steel ot gt sharpened?  Obviously I am not taking them back to the rink.

Thanks for the update.

 

I have come to the conclusion that the people who sharpen skates and actually know what they are doing are in the minority. At least in my area. Before I started sharpening my own skates, I would get strange looks when I asked for 7/8. Almost universally they would ask "you mean 3/8?" Then they would try to argue that 7/8 was for goalies only. It is funny to see many of the skaters getting the standard 1/2 cut rubbing their skates against the boards trying to dull them because they were too sharp. If only they knew there were other options.

 

Unfortunately uneven edges are common and almost to be expected at the shops who rush through a bunch of skates. My brother in-law recently got his daughter into skating. He bought her new skates and I told him where to get them sharpened (the one guy in my area who knows how to sharpen skates, 45min drive one way). He ended up taking them somewhere else out of convenience. I took a look at the blades and could not believe what I saw. The skates were cross-ground, but they never ground the hollow fully into the blade. Both edges still had the cross-grind lines. I don't see how anyone could give skates like that back to a customer.

 

Incidentally, when I my brother in-law later went to my recommended shop to fix the other shops mistake, the guy sharpened them at 3/4. His 6 year old daughter did just fine in them.

[goalieman39 37]

The radius of hollow is just one of those things that really comes down to feel.  With the shops that I work in, the general rule of thumb is that someone lighter gets a deeper cut, while someone bigger gets a more shallow cut.  This isn't true for all skaters and at the end of the day it really comes down to how he feels.  If he feels like 1/2" is too sharp, then go with something more light like 9/16" or 5/8".  I hate that people consider themselves "experts" because they coach.   

[krisdrum 233]

Was at my Brother-in-laws last night, he plays, his kids play, so he invested in a ProSharp home sharpener.  I was nosing through his stuff for the machine and saw he only has 5/8 grinding rings.  So that means his 13 year old, 145 lb son and his 12 year old, maybe 75 lb daughter are on the same hollow.  He has also previously sharpened my son's skates.  So we've also had a 6 year old 55 lber on 5/8 as well.  They all seem to do just fine on that.  Along with this thread and a few others I've seen lately, it was an eye opener for me.  I'm on a 9/16 at the moment, and now I know trying out 5/8 is as easy as stopping by and bringing him a beer. 

[jmiro 55]

When i was still playing ice i weighed about 165 and was on 5/8s.  Also there was a chart of pens plays hollows floating around.  I was suprised because what it showed me was the convential "this hollow is for this weight and this style of skating" went right out the window.