Marsblade Ice Holder

[ParabolicActivity 48]

It might be smart to grab a usable used pair of skates he can throw on in case of emergency.

[Nateinnet 0]

Typically he is “easy” When switching gear.  He isn’t a kid that is overly picky about new gear feeling the same as old gear.  
for example last year he Blew out a tow cap right before state playoffs literally the day before and he had worn steel on those skates stepped into new skates bought and baked the morning before skated warmup in them before the game. No issues.  
I am probably more worried about it then he will because I’m thinking the same thing wait till after the season. 

[Nateinnet 0]

4 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

The stock radius is a neutral 10' profile.

Not a single player we have mounted the MB holder for has stuck with the stock profile and most players seem to prefer the longer profiles like the Pro Sharp Zuperior and Quad 2. 

Why would you change his holder midseason if he only has a single pair of skates? I would not recommend doing such. 

To be honest the shop I use doesn’t do any of that at least by those names.  I had never even heard of an 8’/11’ double radius by name. My sons skates are on a 10’ radius 1/2” hollow pitched forward about 2 mm on the length of the blade? 

[Deke 3]

@Nateinnet I would start with the same 10' and 1/2" he is on now. However, I would also start with a neutral pitch, see what happens then go from there. This way there is really only one variable. In my own experience I ended up with a neutral pitch after having skated "very" pitched forward previously. I am beginning to develop the opinion that many people, including myself have way overdone the forward pitch thing. With the Marsblade I think it is more about finding that sweet spot that makes it click. It seems to excel at anything involving a heel pump. All said, the conservative part of me agrees with others about doing all of this with a second pair of skates.

@SkateWorksPNW my experience was opposite as your clients. I found that my previous "long" profile (similar to Quad 2) didn't really do much with the Marsblade. It just kind of felt the same with or without the Marsblade. I ended up with a Quad Zero. On the Marsblade the Quad Zero feels like there is more steel on the ice than it does in a traditional fixed holder but with the benefits of the shorter radii. It just sort of skates longer. I know that you didn't really care for the Marsblade but as I said it before, I'd love to hear more feedback about your experiences. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

 

 

 

 

2

14 hours ago, Deke said:

 

@SkateWorksPNW my experience was opposite as your clients. I found that my previous "long" profile (similar to Quad 2) didn't really do much with the Marsblade. It just kind of felt the same with or without the Marsblade. I ended up with a Quad Zero. On the Marsblade the Quad Zero feels like there is more steel on the ice than it does in a traditional fixed holder but with the benefits of the shorter radii. It just sort of skates longer. I know that you didn't really care for the Marsblade but as I said it before, I'd love to hear more feedback about your experiences. 

I think Marsblade and Bladetech are on to something, essentially adding a suspension system of sorts to hockey skates. Every other sports manufacturer has incorporated some type of system to either decrease the shock impact of striking the ground or developed a solution to help propel the athlete. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/13/upshot/nike-vaporfly-next-percent-shoe-estimates.html

Hockey and ice skating are obviously not the same as running but I think there is obviously merit to the work these companies are doing, especially with such limited funding compared to a corporation like Nike. I have no doubt in the next 5-10 years we will see significant developments made in the way skates, steel, and holders interact with the player's mechanics and ice. My biggest issue with the MB is specifically the weight penalty didn't seem to outweigh, no pun intended, the benefits. 

 

[boo10 323]

On 12/23/2019 at 12:23 PM, SkateWorksPNW said:

I think Marsblade and Bladetech are on to something, essentially adding a suspension system of sorts to hockey skates. Every other sports manufacturer has incorporated some type of system to either decrease the shock impact of striking the ground or developed a solution to help propel the athlete. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/13/upshot/nike-vaporfly-next-percent-shoe-estimates.html

Hockey and ice skating are obviously not the same as running but I think there is obviously merit to the work these companies are doing, especially with such limited funding compared to a corporation like Nike. I have no doubt in the next 5-10 years we will see significant developments made in the way skates, steel, and holders interact with the player's mechanics and ice. My biggest issue with the MB is specifically the weight penalty didn't seem to outweigh, no pun intended, the benefits. 

 

Seems weird to me that skates have become ridiculously stiff in an attempt to reduce energy loss and increase response time, (I personally think this is misguided), only to add a suspension system which will have the opposite effect.

[BenBreeg 493]

It will be interesting as you would think that for short duration things like starts and quick changes of direction you would want no absorption of energy because you are looking to maximize the force curve.  But there could be circumstances such as other skating scenarios where you could leverage that springlike effect.  Kind of like how powerlifting bars are stiff and weightlifting bars have a bit of spring in them.   

[VegasHockey 1280]

7 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

It will be interesting as you would think that for short duration things like starts and quick changes of direction you would want no absorption of energy because you are looking to maximize the force curve.  But there could be circumstances such as other skating scenarios where you could leverage that springlike effect.  Kind of like how powerlifting bars are stiff and weightlifting bars have a bit of spring in them.   

I think that is specifically why the MB ice holder has a locked toe and only the heel moves by default. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 hours ago, boo10 said:

Seems weird to me that skates have become ridiculously stiff in an attempt to reduce energy loss and increase response time, (I personally think this is misguided), only to add a suspension system which will have the opposite effect.

Well, not every manufacturer thinks this way. It seems many manufacturers are actually led by the design of ski boots, a lot of that technology and materials have crossed over into hockey skates. I think portions of the skate need to be rigid and stiff but other sections need to allow proper flex. IMO, only TRUE has is making a skate that allows for both of these by design. Using a monocoque boot but still having a separate upper portion of the boot allows for flex and rigidity where it's needed.

The current design by CCM doesn't allow for this in their one-piece boot frame. 

Bauer will hopefully incorporate some of these design philosophies into the new Supreme skate being released in 2020. It was stated they did incorporate this in some ways into the 2X Pro, but I personally didn't notice anything different and with the quarter package skate still being a one-piece CURV shell I dont see how they could have incorporated multiple flex zones. 

Edited December 25, 2019 by SkateWorksPNW

[flip12 714]

When the clap skate finally caught on in long track speed skating, every record broke immediately except for the sprint, the 500m. My guess is it negatively impacted the start but only significantly enough to lessen its adoption / performance benefit in that event. By the next Olympics, the top three or four finalists all beat the record time.

I think True also overly restricts skating motion, which something like reducing facing and or cuff height would suggest. Graf is still the best biomechanically tuned skate I’ve ever tried. I think we’re on the cusp of a proper breakthrough in skates and everything else, but I doubt skiing is the direction forward. That’s been over-applied and we’ve seen the limits of its usefulness in hockey.

Edited December 26, 2019 by flip12
Long / short confusion

[Deke 3]

It's funny but it seems that design can go down two different paths before anyone realizes any results. On one hand, we design around what we already know or what we are already capable of, technique-wise. Technique doesn't really change though, so the results are incremental. On the other hand, you can introduce something completely different where the physics are better, but will require a change in technique. In this case the results could be an order of magnitude better. Just think if we only 1) understood the physics better AND 2) were willing to leave our comfort zone, what would the evolutionary path look like. Gotta admit this is the only reason I tried the Marsblade.

[Nateinnet 0]

First off I think that each skater is different and beginning skaters are different than experienced skaters.  The approach to skate development should reflect this. I am not a skating coach but seems that young beginners have week ankles and could benefit from the stiff boot, but as strength and technique improve more ankle movement could increase power, just spit balling.  
so now an update on my 13 year old and his Marsblade holders. He is skating in a CCM 9080 boot and that has not changed. What has changed is he was on a forward stance 9’ radius maybe less. The shop we use does t do multiple radii profiles. The toe and the heel of his blades had been ground up slightly I can only assume this is similar to a triple radius but again idk for sure.  I had the shop profile the new Marsblade steel at a 10’ neutral stance.  My son skated stick and puck last night with the #3 t ring and thought it was just ok.  Today we put the #1 t ring in the holder and skated 2 hours stick and puck.  He was noticeably more comfortable and said that it felt “much better”.   More updates to come

[Vet88 674]

1 hour ago, Nateinnet said:

I am not a skating coach but seems that young beginners have week ankles and could benefit from the stiff boot, but as strength and technique improve more ankle movement could increase power, just spit balling.  

Whereas I have a totally opposite view. Beginners skating in a stiff boot is the worst thing they can do. Yes, it provides more stability but at a long term serious cost. That stability reinforces bad habits and poor skating technique, the brain doesn't know any different, you are still standing upright so everything must be working ok. But take a look at the way you skate from a bio mechanical perspective and it's just a mess (yes, there those who are naturally gifted with perfect alignment from day one but around 85% of the population aren't). Whereas skate in a boot that offers no support, or with laces really loose / untied, and now the body has to use the feet / ankles to balance itself correctly over the skate blades. The brain now has feedback coming from the feet and everything starts to come into alignment as the body strives to find the most energy efficient way to skate. This is what builds the foundation for a player to be able to skate to the best of their abilities. Correct alignment leads to correct technique and maximum power. Now add a stiff boot and you get even more power but only because the body knows how to use it properly.

BUT..... Ice rinks operators aren't interested in this philosophy. If ice skating is too hard (skates with no support) the general public won't participate as much. Their goal is to make it as easy as possible to skate ergo a stiff supported boot so the public find the experience as easy as possible. So my comments aren't really aimed at the mass market, more specifically those who are driven and focused to improve their skating ability be it speed, figure or hockey.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Vet88

[Deke 3]

18 hours ago, Nateinnet said:

My son skated stick and puck last night with the #3 t ring and thought it was just ok.  Today we put the #1 t ring in the holder and skated 2 hours stick and puck.  He was noticeably more comfortable and said that it felt “much better”.   More updates to come

Refresh me on the spacer numbers. Which is which? I was one of the early users and only have full movement which is probably the smallest. Any other feedback other than OK and much better? What was your son feeling?

[Nateinnet 0]

Ok I said I would have a better feel for how these holders and blades have effected my son after Thursday’s practice so here is the best translation I can give of his account as well as some of my own. 

this account is after 3  two hour stick and puck sessions and 1  hour and half team practice  

although they are heavier than the stock holders and blades what you feel in the hand is negligible on the foot. He didn’t notice the extra weight, “at all.”

turns feel “tighter” and “more sable” 

transitions feel “different, but not in a bad way” I think what he is still adapting to is blade movement and the shift in balance point

backwards crossovers are “easier” “smoother”  

as for speed he looks as fast if not faster than he was. Certainly not slower.  

From a parents point of view I will say that I am not impressed with the gel coat on the carbon fiber. It began chipping the very first stick and puck, it’s not structural  but it doesn’t look good to someone that doesn’t know otherwise. Additionally  gel coat is heavy.  My advise to marsblade would be loose the gel coat save weight use 2 part clear directly over the carbon fiber and continue to  set yourselves apart from the norm. (This is where someone will likely say that two part isn’t better and I will call on every goalie mask and automotive painter to refute you)

I may get a chance to time him on the same drills that I took time on prior to the switch to these holders and blades  but truthfully they will be taken with a hand held stop watch and could be inaccurate. Ultimately I will use an “eyeball”  to determine if he is faster and more efficient  

thanks for reading. 
update 1/8/2020

three additional skates (game, power skate, and additional team practice)

in the game he had 3 points (goal and 2 apples) and was a forechecking monster.  Some of this goes in the “eyeball” Category. He looked quicker than the competition especially on the goal which was a power move off the half boards cycle. 
power skate he was selected to demonstrate a transition drill from the 40+ kids on the ice. This is harder to judge because he is a great skater and often selected as demonstrator but again to the “eyeball” clearly skating very well on the new blades and holders even with the extra length. 
 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Nateinnet

[Sprungdownunder 18]

Has anyone broken or cracked a leaf spring?

i have cracked one & now I am getting slight movement at the toe blade.

should there be absolutely no movement at the front or is some minor compression ok? 
maybe Per can anwser the last question.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, Sprungdownunder said:

Has anyone broken or cracked a leaf spring?

i have cracked one & now I am getting slight movement at the toe blade.

should there be absolutely no movement at the front or is some minor compression ok? 
maybe Per can anwser the last question.

I think some very minimal motion is fine, but it should be almost negligible. I have only seen one other player crack the carbon leaf. 

[Sprungdownunder 18]

4 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I think some very minimal motion is fine, but it should be almost negligible. I have only seen one other player crack the carbon leaf. 

I can move the front blade out a little & in a touch & if I look at the leaf either side has a slight bow & one side has a separation of the top layer about a inch & a half long.

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

18 hours ago, Sprungdownunder said:

I can move the front blade out a little & in a touch & if I look at the leaf either side has a slight bow & one side has a separation of the top layer about a inch & a half long.

 

What happens if you swap the leaf? They are bidirectional so it shouldn't matter. 

[Sprungdownunder 18]

52 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

What happens if you swap the leaf? They are bidirectional so it shouldn't matter. 

I been trying to download a photo but having some problems trying to do it off my iPhone.
The leaf is to far gone with every game its becoming more warped at the end where it’s cracked.I need urgent replacement & have messaged marsblade for some.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Sprungdownunder

[Marsblade 23]

On 1/11/2020 at 6:07 AM, Sprungdownunder said:

Has anyone broken or cracked a leaf spring?

i have cracked one & now I am getting slight movement at the toe blade.

should there be absolutely no movement at the front or is some minor compression ok? 
maybe Per can anwser the last question.

Hi, If the leaf spring is broken I can send a new one, no problem. There should be no movement at the front. Feel free to send me an e-mail at per@marsblade.com and I'll set you up with a new spring. //Per

[Sprungdownunder 18]

43 minutes ago, Marsblade said:

Hi, If the leaf spring is broken I can send a new one, no problem. There should be no movement at the front. Feel free to send me an e-mail at per@marsblade.com and I'll set you up with a new spring. //Per

Thx Per I will send you a email. 
Actually you guys are going to supply me with some just checked my email,thx for the quick customer service & looking after me👍👍

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Sprungdownunder