Skate that fits between Vapor and Supreme

[Flop_N_Pray 38]

My LHS is out due to terrible selection and terrible customer service. The next closest good shop is over an hour away and doesn't stock a lot of higher end skates in my size (Junior 5 / 247 ish holders). Over the past few years I've had:

Graf 635 - heel too wide and hated the forward pitch. Made them work for years but the not much left of the runners so this year I was "fitted" by my LHS into

Supreme S29 5.0D - a bit loose in the heel and a bit too snug from the midfoot forward but felt good after a stretch just behind the toebox. What I now know is too much volume through the top 5 eyelets (full finger under pencil test), which allowed heel lift after about 30 hours because I don't lace the tops of my skates very tight. Got warranty returned - long and unrelated story - and replaced with

Vapor X600 5.0 EE - 

Heel lock is better and forefoot is better. Played a game in them before baking and they felt great, at first. Pencil test passes just barely on both skates with stock insoles but I get lace bite if I use Speedplates or Superfeet in them. Which I need for my med/high arches. Toebox feels good but midfoot does not feel as snug / pleasant as the Supremes did.

Bauer scanner puts me in 5.5 D Supremes but says my feet are both between D and E width with my right foot being almost 1/4 size bigger. In 5.5 Supremes neither foot brushed the toe cap so scanner is definitely only a starting point as others have noted.

So I'm looking for heel and toe fit similar to 2017 Vapor EE with slightly more volume and slightly snugger through the midfoot. The "good" shop I visited over an hour away recommended Jetspeeds but didn't have them in my size. Also not sure how much I trust them because they said the Supremes have better heel lock than Vapors which was not my experience at all.

I would prefer to find a '17 model skate on clearance and save some $$$ if I can.

Help?

Edited March 2, 2020 by Flop_N_Pray
Typo

[stick9 891]

Sounds like a Ribcor.

Heel is a tad bigger than a D vapor 1X. It's got a bit more volume too. The toe box can be roomy.

The 68k and 70k are very reasonable price wise these days. I've seen new 68k's on sideline for $200.

Edited March 2, 2020 by stick9

[puckpilot 312]

Have you considered that you can address the lace bite in the Vapors with eyelet extenders or option B skate straps? I use the latter, and they're great. Ugly as heck, but my feet thank me for them.

If you don't want to try and work with the Vapors and would rather get new skates, IMHO, right now, I'd stop and think about what you're doing. You've got into two new pairs skates so far in the hopes they work, but they didn't. You're about to get into a third skate, without any guarantees that they'll work either, because you're having trouble finding stock to try on, which sucks. I'd start doing the math on how much you've spent. How much you're about to spend, and compare that to what it would cost to get custom skates, and think about if that might be a better to save up and go with that option.

[Vet88 674]

2017 Jetspeed or Rbk 50k or Rbk 70k is where I would suggest you look. Note that the 2017 Jetspeed line is sized differently, if you are a 5.5 Bauer today you would be after a 4.5 Jetspeed or maybe a 4.0 Jetspeed depending on where your toes were in the 5.5 Bauer. But finding them still for sale outside of eBay / Sideline swap etc will be hard (I saw some from Latvia, lol). HockeyMonkey have Jetpseed 300 on clearance which is the next model down but a lot of features from the top model.

And if you ever decide to go for customs make sure you go in with your eyes wide open and forearmed with as much knowledge as you can gather on how the process works and support everything with manual measurements. I know of a number of players who have tried to get narrow ankle / wider forefoot junior skates (True / Bauer / CCM) and have not had great results.

One thing in your favour is that you fit junior so you can get a hell of skate for a reasonable price compared to senior sized pricing.

[Flop_N_Pray 38]

3 hours ago, puckpilot said:

Have you considered that you can address the lace bite in the Vapors with eyelet extenders or option B skate straps? I use the latter, and they're great. Ugly as heck, but my feet thank me for them.

If you don't want to try and work with the Vapors and would rather get new skates, IMHO, right now, I'd stop and think about what you're doing. You've got into two new pairs skates so far in the hopes they work, but they didn't. You're about to get into a third skate, without any guarantees that they'll work either, because you're having trouble finding stock to try on, which sucks. I'd start doing the math on how much you've spent. How much you're about to spend, and compare that to what it would cost to get custom skates, and think about if that might be a better to save up and go with that option.

S29 were warranty returns (unrelated to the fit) so I'm in about $230 shipped on the Vapors, which I'm actually pretty confident I can make work with a combo of alternate lacing and a gel pad on that foot. There are a lot of good deals right now on junior clearance skates in my sweet spot (about two tiers down from the top) so if there is something a bit closer to that Goldilocks fit in retail I figured it's a decent time to go look.

I'd have to eat the full cost of 3-5 clearance junior retail skates before I'm into custom money, and less than $100 returning a few pairs if the fit is glaringly wrong. I only baked the Vapors because they were/are very, very close. 

I'm cheap, not broke. I could go full custom now but considering my weight, level, and frequency of play, and my otherwise non-deformed feet, it might be worth at least trying on a few more retail skates. With that said, maybe there just isn't a v-shaped skate with a slightly higher instep than Vapors. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Flop_N_Pray
Clarity

[Cavs019 708]

This screams Jetspeed FT1 to me.
 

They’ve always felt similar to a vapor with the V shape heel-forefoot dimensions but with slightly more volume ala Supreme. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Cavs019

[JimmyTheDriver 36]

10 hours ago, stick9 said:

Sounds like a Ribcor.

Heel is a tad bigger than a D vapor 1X. It's got a bit more volume too. The toe box can be roomy.

The 68k and 70k are very reasonable price wise these days. I've seen new 68k's on sideline for $200.

I don't know man... toe box and midfoot, yes, but not sure about the heel.  The Ribcore 80ks I just got out of had a bigger heel and much more slip than the Supreme 2S Pros.

[Flop_N_Pray 38]

8 minutes ago, JimmyTheDriver said:

I don't know man... toe box and midfoot, yes, but not sure about the heel.  The Ribcore 80ks I just got out of had a bigger heel and much more slip than the Supreme 2S Pros.

Yeah depending on who you believe the Ribcor is either narrower and lower volume than a Vapor or there's a bunch of reviews on here from 70k line that say it is v-shaped with a medium high instep. And of course the local stores are heavy on Jetspeed and Supreme but have little to no Ribcor or Nexus.

The heel lock for me is less a function of heel shape / size and more that the Vapor ankle locks me down better than the Supreme did for whatever reason.

 

 

[caveman27 208]

34 minutes ago, Flop_N_Pray said:

Yeah depending on who you believe the Ribcor is either narrower and lower volume than a Vapor or there's a bunch of reviews on here from 70k line that say it is v-shaped with a medium high instep. And of course the local stores are heavy on Jetspeed and Supreme but have little to no Ribcor or Nexus.

The heel lock for me is less a function of heel shape / size and more that the Vapor ankle locks me down better than the Supreme did for whatever reason

I went from a Bauer Supreme 6.0 D to CCM Jetspeed (before FT1) 5.5 EE (which is now 6.0 EE).  Heel lock is pretty good.  I don't have lace bite issues. I have regular arches. The boot was quite stiff and took awhile to break in even after baking. Walking in them sometimes makes the bottom of feet hurt, but that goes away once I start skating.

[JimmyTheDriver 36]

47 minutes ago, Flop_N_Pray said:

Yeah depending on who you believe the Ribcor is either narrower and lower volume than a Vapor or there's a bunch of reviews on here from 70k line that say it is v-shaped with a medium high instep. And of course the local stores are heavy on Jetspeed and Supreme but have little to no Ribcor or Nexus.

The heel lock for me is less a function of heel shape / size and more that the Vapor ankle locks me down better than the Supreme did for whatever reason.

 

 

I found it to be V shaped I guess?  Ended up returning them.  Toe box was a smidge looser than the Vapor 2X Pro, but a smidge tighter than the Supreme 2S Pro.  Instep taller than Vapor, but shallower than Supreme.  Heel wider than both Supreme and Vapor.  I liked the skate, comfy as hell, but its a tough sell.  With how flexible the boot is, they seem to pitch is as a do it all fit.

[BenBreeg 493]

I like my Ribcors, but would never describe the instep as med-high.

[Flop_N_Pray 38]

Baking and alternate lacing has helped with the Vapors quite a bit. Made a lace lock loop at the fifth eyelet from the bottom which takes pressure off my instep and also lets me lace the rest of the eyelets  loose without it transferring back down into the foot of the boot. Got my Superfeet back in with no lace bite.

Midfoot still feels a bit too roomy laterally but I can walk around on the toes of my blades with zero heel slip which is a first.

Keeping an eye out for Jetspeeds at the right price but I think these may work for a while.

[Vet88 674]

On 3/3/2020 at 4:29 AM, Flop_N_Pray said:

Yeah depending on who you believe the Ribcor is either narrower and lower volume than a Vapor or there's a bunch of reviews on here from 70k line that say it is v-shaped with a medium high instep. And of course the local stores are heavy on Jetspeed and Supreme but have little to no Ribcor or Nexus.

The heel lock for me is less a function of heel shape / size and more that the Vapor ankle locks me down better than the Supreme did for whatever reason.

 

 

The 50k and 70k had one of the narrowest heels in the retail market, when the 80k line came out they had widened the heel for a more general fit.

[stick9 891]

On 3/2/2020 at 12:17 PM, BenBreeg said:

I like my Ribcors, but would never describe the instep as med-high.

Neither would I. I'd say it falls somewhere between low and medium.

I'd ignore what ccm lists it as. They do a shit job describing their fit profiles.

Edited March 4, 2020 by stick9

[caveman27 208]

Also, with the JetSpeed skates I got, I put in CCM custom insole to replace the regular insole. I got medium. They have high and low. I never tried the non-custom insole.

 https://www.hockeymonkey.com/ccm-hockey-accessory-custom-support-insoles-sr.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiazA64KB6AIVCZ2zCh2DtAHWEAQYASABEgKhrPD_BwE

[Flop_N_Pray 38]

To follow up, I answered my own question with a pair of 2017 Jetspeeds (specifically Xtra Pro / upgraded FT370 SMU) I picked up on Sideline Swap new for $100.

They are perfect for my feet in 5D.

Forefoot feels significantly wider right behind toebox than Supreme D but narrower than Vapor EE.

Negative space above toes about the same as Vapors with Powerfoot inserts.

Midfoot width also between Supreme D and Vapor EE. A shade closer to the Supremes.

Heel /ankle narrower than Supreme D / roughly the same as Vapor EE.

Depth from top eyelet to tendon guard closer to the Supremes.

Depth at the instep slightly (like 1-2mm) higher than Vapor EE. 

And the tongue feels better out of the box.

I really like the Vapor X800s now that they are broken in but the Jetspeeds fit even better.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Flop_N_Pray

[krisdrum 233]

17 hours ago, Flop_N_Pray said:

To follow up, I answered my own question with a pair of 2017 Jetspeeds (specifically Xtra Pro / upgraded FT370 SMU) I picked up on Sideline Swap new for $100.

They are perfect for my feet in 5D.

Forefoot feels significantly wider right behind toebox than Supreme D but narrower than Vapor EE.

Negative space above toes about the same as Vapors with Powerfoot inserts.

Midfoot width also between Supreme D and Vapor EE. A shade closer to the Supremes.

Heel /ankle narrower than Supreme D / roughly the same as Vapor EE.

Depth from top eyelet to tendon guard closer to the Supremes.

Depth at the instep slightly (like 1-2mm) higher than Vapor EE. 

And the tongue feels better out of the box.

I really like the Vapor X800s now that they are broken in but the Jetspeeds fit even better.

Interesting findings.  I'm really curious now, maybe I need to try on some Jetspeeds again.  I gave them a try like 3-4 years ago, but think it was a roller boot.  Couldn't even get the tongue to lay inside the boot they were so shallow on me.  Pencil test would have failed from down in the forefoot.   And older Vapor 5EE I was able to get to work pretty well for my foot.  I should have stuck with those, but got crazy and got some classic Grafs.  Sold the Vapors before really seeing if I liked the Grafs.  Basically exact opposite boots (one low and flexy, the other tall/normal and stiff).  Don't get me wrong, I like the way the Grafs fit my feet, but feel and performance wise (at least for where my skating is at), is completely different.  I'd like to get back to a stiffer boot, as they felt much more point and shoot to me.  The Grafs are much more nuanced.  

Edited March 12, 2020 by krisdrum