Arches are killing me and no one knows the issue

[JAY4114 6]

So I’ve been starting to learn how to skate to play roller hockey since December at least once a week. I am using Bauer Vapor XR600 size 6. Ever since I started I’ve had a burning pain in my arches that has never gotten better. I’ve tried a ton of different insoles and skates with no change. The only thing that seemed to help a little bit was to use no insole but the skate felt too narrow. I was measured on a Bauer foot scanner and I have low arches, and am a size 6.5-7 and an EE. So I got a size 7 Tour KV2 but even taking out the insole didn’t help so I returned them and tried to stretch and lengthen my XR600 and it still hurts unless there isn’t an insert. Now it seems like it may be too big for my feet. My thoughts were that I may just need to try to tighten them different or readjust but I still am having some arch pain without an insert. Sorry for the long ramble but does anyone have any feedback or advice for me?

[Miller55 333]

In my experience this is not easy to pinpoint and usually it isn't just one thing. 

This could be largely that your feet are not used to skates and are weak, and therefore it will take time to develop the muscles under your foot. Could be skates too narrow. Could be skates too loose and you're cranking down the laces to compensate. This, in turn, puts pressure on your feet. Could be the boot arch is too high for your arches. Could be it is too low and your arches are collapsing. Could be the boot is too long and your arches is not positioned properly in the boot.

The point in all of this is to say that this is something you should bring to a good LHS that knows how to fit skates properly, not just a shop that will follow the Bauer scanner without thinking. 

 

[JAY4114 6]

7 minutes ago, Miller55 said:

In my experience this is not easy to pinpoint and usually it isn't just one thing. 

This could be largely that your feet are not used to skates and are weak, and therefore it will take time to develop the muscles under your foot. Could be skates too narrow. Could be skates too loose and you're cranking down the laces to compensate. This, in turn, puts pressure on your feet. Could be the boot arch is too high for your arches. Could be it is too low and your arches are collapsing. Could be the boot is too long and your arches is not positioned properly in the boot.

The point in all of this is to say that this is something you should bring to a good LHS that knows how to fit skates properly, not just a shop that will follow the Bauer scanner without thinking. 

 

Thanks for the info. Pure hockey tried to help me by far the best out of the 3 shops I visited. I have low arches and my skates felt too narrow before they were stretched. Now they kind of feel too wide. I guess I just can’t win

[Sniper9 530]

Does this happen with all skates or are you completely new to skating. Have you try speed plates? They mould to your actual arches. Some people with really flat feet will find even stock arches on retail boots too much. I know a friend who gets arch pain from superfeet insoles. 

If you can't find relief from insoles, I suggest start strengthening your arches and using a golf ball to rolls your arches to get rid of any possible soft tissue adhesions (trigger points). You can YouTube how to strengthen your arch/ fix flat feet. Even if you don't have flat feet per se, there's no harm strengthening ur arches. Having strong arches is good for your overall posture, stability etc. 

[Vet88 674]

How long are you skating before the pain kicks in? Is it the same for both feet, pain and timing? You have low arches, do you pronate at all?

[Left Wing King 50]

If you have ice skates that fit get them converted. I had a pair of inlines, I had to take them off after about 15 minutes as my feet were on fire. Got some Nexus skates in my size converted, no issue since.

[JAY4114 6]

9 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Does this happen with all skates or are you completely new to skating. Have you try speed plates? They mould to your actual arches. Some people with really flat feet will find even stock arches on retail boots too much. I know a friend who gets arch pain from superfeet insoles. 

If you can't find relief from insoles, I suggest start strengthening your arches and using a golf ball to rolls your arches to get rid of any possible soft tissue adhesions (trigger points). You can YouTube how to strengthen your arch/ fix flat feet. Even if you don't have flat feet per se, there's no harm strengthening ur arches. Having strong arches is good for your overall posture, stability etc. 

I’ve tried on almost every skate that fits my budget and skated around the store and then the pain kicks in. I’ll have to look into strengthening my arches. Thanks!

[JAY4114 6]

1 hour ago, Left Wing King said:

If you have ice skates that fit get them converted. I had a pair of inlines, I had to take them off after about 15 minutes as my feet were on fire. Got some Nexus skates in my size converted, no issue since.

I don’t have ice skates

[JAY4114 6]

5 hours ago, Vet88 said:

How long are you skating before the pain kicks in? Is it the same for both feet, pain and timing? You have low arches, do you pronate at all?

Most of the time it is only a matter of minutes. Sometimes a foot will get pain faster than the other. The other foot usually isn’t far behind but sometimes it will take a while.

[JAY4114 6]

Stupid question is there anyway to shrink the boot? If I were to bake the skates, which would be for the third time, would the boots shorten and narrow to a vague shape of my foot?

[Miller55 333]

To my knowledge it doesn't really work that way. Heat causes expansion. 

[hockeydad3 51]

I have a similar issue with pain on my whole footsoles after ten to fifteen minutes on the ice. I have no problems with a shifting period of two minutes for about one hour. I tried allmost all kinds of skates and insoles on the market. The cause seems to be a mixture of fit (skate/insole), tight laces, my bodyweight, flat feet, lack of fitness, my age and my sense of balance. Very supportive and good fitting skates, tightening the laces less tight, cutting out the archsupport area of a stock insole and skating for over three years made the pain less prominent. But the pain still exists, sometimes more, sometimes less. Learning to skate at the age of fifty can be a long way to go.

[Vet88 674]

7 hours ago, JAY4114 said:

Stupid question is there anyway to shrink the boot? If I were to bake the skates, which would be for the third time, would the boots shorten and narrow to a vague shape of my foot?

Yes and no. You can move the boot inwards in certain areas like around the ankle, apply heat and clamp it or wrap it and, if the boot is thermomoldable, it will move inwards. If you have good alignment over the skate blade the boot will generally hold that shape as long as it is stiff enough. If you have poor alignment over the skate blade (eg pronate) the boot will always open up again and return to its original shape.

[JAY4114 6]

24 minutes ago, Vet88 said:

Yes and no. You can move the boot inwards in certain areas like around the ankle, apply heat and clamp it or wrap it and, if the boot is thermomoldable, it will move inwards. If you have good alignment over the skate blade the boot will generally hold that shape as long as it is stiff enough. If you have poor alignment over the skate blade (eg pronate) the boot will always open up again and return to its original shape.

How would I know if my boots are too big? I have a small amount of wiggle room, really not much, and my skates do need tightened a little more which is expected but they are still able to be tightened too tight. The length seems to be fine but I am more worried about the width.

[Vet88 674]

I use this test, take your laces out, pull the tongue right out. Put your foot in the boot, lift in the air and wiggle it about. If the boot easily falls off then its too wide / long. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Vet88

[JAY4114 6]

13 minutes ago, Vet88 said:

I use this test, take your laces, pull the tongue right out. Put your foot in the boot, lift in the air and wiggle it about. If the boot easily falls off then its too wide / long. 

Skate doesn’t fall off. Is there a possibility that I just won’t be able to skate unless I pay $1000+ for custom skates?

Edited July 17, 2020 by JAY4114

[Vet88 674]

Even custom skates may not help. I'd look at 2 things, either the boot is pushing into your arch (do you have a red mark around your arch after wearing skates) or the skates are too narrow around the arch (or both). At the very least you should be able to put on skates and move around the store without them hurting you. I'd ask you to do this, don't do the laces up or tie up the bottom 3 eyelets only. Now go for a very slow straight line skate and slow corners. Anyone can do this regardless of your skill level. Without the laces tied you are removing any pressure from the boot (the wrap pressing the arch shape into your foot) and allowing your foot to sit more naturally in the boot. If you are willing to try this you will wobble all over the place, this is to be expected as your muscles attempt to control the skate. This will reduce quickly as you concentrate on slow straight line skating. If the pain reduces it gives you a good indication of what is causing the problem (boot pressing into your arch) and this would explain why taking out the insole helps. If this is the case you can get the arch punched out or try forefoot gel pads to lift the front of the foot.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

9 hours ago, JAY4114 said:

Skate doesn’t fall off. Is there a possibility that I just won’t be able to skate unless I pay $1000+ for custom skates?

I had similar issues as you. I tried everything and spent a fortune in the process. Every line from Bauer and CCM and a couple models of Graf and just couldn’t get anything that didn’t hurt after a couple minutes. I used to ask guys if just the walk out to the ice is supposed to hurt, because I had no reference point.

Usually, my feet would eventually go numb and didn’t hurt at some point in the 3rd period.

Then I got my hands on the Easton Mako. My first time playing a game (playing in a division higher than the beginner division I should have been in) I had my teammates ask if I had taken skating lessons. I laughed and told them no, I just had skates that didn’t hurt anymore. Pain was gone. They were so thermaformable that they were able to fit perfectly! It really was amazing.

When I switched to goalie, I bought a pair of cheap Bauer goalie skates and, not surprisingly, they hurt my feet. Not as badly, but the movements are obviously different. I wasn’t about to go through the same BS all over again and since there was no Mako goalie skate i bit the bullet and went VH custom. Ended up being one of the best equipment decisions I’ve ever made. They feel like nice, well fitting hiking boots. A nice even pressure all around the foot that makes you feel supported but not jammed. And because of the foot wrap you barely need to pull the laces tight. I could skate with no laces in these things (and sort of have before when I had a lace come untied during a pickup game).

Soooo... while I think True custom might work for you based on my experience, the TF7 or TF9 retail models might give you the same experience I got with the Mako.

I don’t know if that’s helpful to you but figured I’d give you my story and you can decide what to do with it. 

[psulion22 402]

Given the information posted, I'm going to say that you're problem is a combination of things.  Cheap skates with poor structure and support, causing you to have to tie them way too tight to get that support because you are a new skater.  If they are not fitting you properly, that will compound the issue.  Burning, cramping, pins and needles, or numbness are usually caused by too much pressure somewhere on the foot restricting blood flow.  It may even not necessarily be in the area that is affected either.  For example, pain or numbness on the outside of the sole (pinky toe side) is often caused by too much pressure over the top of the foot because that's where the blood vessel is.

IPv6 and others are correct.  A skate should be supportive without having to crank it down.  That relies on the thermoformability of the materials.  Certain brands, like True or Easton Makos if you can find them, are made from materials that are a little softer and better shape to the foot.  The higher price points from Bauer and CCM are made from materials that mold much better when heated.  Doing what Vet88 suggests will definitely help you identify if pressure somewhere is the problem.  It may be directly on the arch, it may not.  

When it comes down to it, you're a new skater, so your strength and conrol aren't developed yet.  You're likely having to crank the skate down just to get that support, since you don't have it on your own yet.  Part of that may also be because the skate isn't fitting properly.  And a cheaper boot doesn't have as much support, meaning you have to tie them even tighter to get it.  I would take the suggestions of IPv6 and Vet88.  Skate with your skates very loose and see if the lack of pressure resolves the issue.  Don't worry about your skating, you're only focusing on the pain issue.  If that helps, then I'm going to suggest finding a higher end boot, whether it's a True or another brand, that will provide its own support.  To that end, I'm also going to suggest getting an ice skate and converting it to roller.  Much of the price of a premade roller skate is in the wheels, bearings, and frame.  You're getting a significanty inferior boot compared to the ice version of the same price point.  A higher end boot on model year clearance or even used is a great option to consider.  You already have the chassis, wheels, and bearings so converting over should be easy and not cost too much.

[JAY4114 6]

8 hours ago, psulion22 said:

Given the information posted, I'm going to say that you're problem is a combination of things.  Cheap skates with poor structure and support, causing you to have to tie them way too tight to get that support because you are a new skater.  If they are not fitting you properly, that will compound the issue.  Burning, cramping, pins and needles, or numbness are usually caused by too much pressure somewhere on the foot restricting blood flow.  It may even not necessarily be in the area that is affected either.  For example, pain or numbness on the outside of the sole (pinky toe side) is often caused by too much pressure over the top of the foot because that's where the blood vessel is.

IPv6 and others are correct.  A skate should be supportive without having to crank it down.  That relies on the thermoformability of the materials.  Certain brands, like True or Easton Makos if you can find them, are made from materials that are a little softer and better shape to the foot.  The higher price points from Bauer and CCM are made from materials that mold much better when heated.  Doing what Vet88 suggests will definitely help you identify if pressure somewhere is the problem.  It may be directly on the arch, it may not.  

When it comes down to it, you're a new skater, so your strength and conrol aren't developed yet.  You're likely having to crank the skate down just to get that support, since you don't have it on your own yet.  Part of that may also be because the skate isn't fitting properly.  And a cheaper boot doesn't have as much support, meaning you have to tie them even tighter to get it.  I would take the suggestions of IPv6 and Vet88.  Skate with your skates very loose and see if the lack of pressure resolves the issue.  Don't worry about your skating, you're only focusing on the pain issue.  If that helps, then I'm going to suggest finding a higher end boot, whether it's a True or another brand, that will provide its own support.  To that end, I'm also going to suggest getting an ice skate and converting it to roller.  Much of the price of a premade roller skate is in the wheels, bearings, and frame.  You're getting a significanty inferior boot compared to the ice version of the same price point.  A higher end boot on model year clearance or even used is a great option to consider.  You already have the chassis, wheels, and bearings so converting over should be easy and not cost too much.

I only tighten around the ankle and i make sure to not do it too tight. 

[JAY4114 6]

21 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Even custom skates may not help. I'd look at 2 things, either the boot is pushing into your arch (do you have a red mark around your arch after wearing skates) or the skates are too narrow around the arch (or both). At the very least you should be able to put on skates and move around the store without them hurting you. I'd ask you to do this, don't do the laces up or tie up the bottom 3 eyelets only. Now go for a very slow straight line skate and slow corners. Anyone can do this regardless of your skill level. Without the laces tied you are removing any pressure from the boot (the wrap pressing the arch shape into your foot) and allowing your foot to sit more naturally in the boot. If you are willing to try this you will wobble all over the place, this is to be expected as your muscles attempt to control the skate. This will reduce quickly as you concentrate on slow straight line skating. If the pain reduces it gives you a good indication of what is causing the problem (boot pressing into your arch) and this would explain why taking out the insole helps. If this is the case you can get the arch punched out or try forefoot gel pads to lift the front of the foot.

I only start getting the pain a few minutes after going at a decent speed. For example, at pure hockey they let me do laps around their sticks so mine is probably different from yours, but before I got my skates stretched and with the insole, I could only do about 4 laps. After I got them stretched I could do significantly more with the arch in. But, I cannot remember having this pain without an insole before I got the boots stretched besides for 1 moment. It could be because I was more focused on the game but it was still bothering me a little bit. Also, my feet did kind of fall asleep and around my feet hurt from what I assume was the boot being too narrow. One or both of those issues could have taken away from my arch pain.

[JAY4114 6]

Also I did notice that parts of my feet like toes and front of the ankle tend to tense up during skating. When I talked to someone at pure hockey, they said that tensing could be part of the problem. He also said that the stretching would help my feet lay flat which wouldn’t make my feet tense up. I’m not sure how much of this it’s true. Would too much room in the boot cause my arch pain?

Edited July 18, 2020 by JAY4114

[Vet88 674]

Why do you think they are too big? Reading your last 2 posts, it sounds to me as if they are still too narrow which is leading to numbness and pain. After a skate, do you have any red areas around your foot?

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

At your feet on the flatter side? I have very flat feet and issues similar to you. I never tried to squeeze my feet into a below but I found a simple (albeit far from perfect) fix. I go with the thinnest footbed I could find and elevated my heels with Dr Scholl heel inserts  

it removes the element of your arch being pushed by the skate  

it helped me out tons before I learned to heat and stretch my own skates  

 

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

https://www.target.com/p/dr-scholl-39-s-massaging-gel-advanced-heel-cushions-for-women-size-6-10/-/A-51427227