TRUE TF9/TF7 skates

[Hills 712]

On 12/24/2022 at 1:50 PM, RodneyPierce said:

I actually moved the tongues down as far as is comfortable (edges start to dig into my foot if I go any further) and I can still lift my toes up.  If they do open up a little more honestly that will be perfect!! (Width wise). I can just brush the toe cap now when I stretch my foot out and I don't want it to go any closer than that.  I can't stand my toes hitting the end.

The heal/ankle lock that I've got on these things is insane!

There you go, you just shown that your skates are too big.

[RodneyPierce 11]

42 minutes ago, Hills said:

There you go, you just shown that your skates are too big.

I guess we will agree to disagree.  I absolutely cannot stand my toes touching the toe cap all the time.  It's a personal preference and I'll tell you with 100% certainty I would not be happy in a 9.5 or as you all recommend, a 9.  My toes would not be able to straighten out on a 9.  They would be crammed.

[Hills 712]

36 minutes ago, RodneyPierce said:

I guess we will agree to disagree.  I absolutely cannot stand my toes touching the toe cap all the time.  It's a personal preference and I'll tell you with 100% certainty I would not be happy in a 9.5 or as you all recommend, a 9.  My toes would not be able to straighten out on a 9.  They would be crammed.

There isn't a thing to disagree on. You are in skates too big, but you don't like skates that fit remotely properly. Keep doing what you are doing if you like it, but saying the people that actually know how to fit skates and how they should fit would've gotten you in the wrong size is bad information.

[Sniper9 530]

6 hours ago, RodneyPierce said:

I guess we will agree to disagree.  I absolutely cannot stand my toes touching the toe cap all the time.  It's a personal preference and I'll tell you with 100% certainty I would not be happy in a 9.5 or as you all recommend, a 9.  My toes would not be able to straighten out on a 9.  They would be crammed.

It's personal preference. Some people like their skates to fit properly and some like them a bit roomier aka half a size too big like you 😬. I'm being a cheeky c*nt but there's also nothing wrong with your preference. 

As for the donuts, other brands rely on the super thick ankle padding to conform and mold do your foot to create that customized fit. True doesn't rely solely on this. True customs do have thicker ankle padding though as I'm pretty sure it has to do with basing the boot off your foot scan and knowing exactly where to build the ankle bumps vs retails where it's probably more of a universal shape. 

If you look at Bauer and ccm retails these days, at least with the newer models it's literally thick ankle pads made of some kind of memory foam and there really isn't any depression built in. That's done bc it'll conform to any ankle shape. This is important especially for Bauer skates which are the least heat moldable out of the three big skate companies (true, Bauer, ccm). 

[pgeorgan 77]

Question:

Where do the two True variants sit on the negative-space scale relative to Fit 1 Bauer and Tapered CCM skates? How do they compare to the original Vapor 1X Pro 2.0's?

My biggest problem, frankly, is skates have been relatively too roomy out the box since everyone moved to these fit systems. Before that, Bauer vapors in a D-width fit me perfectly.  It does not seem Bauer can narrow their skates if you go custom. It seems that perhaps CCM can. Some say True, as well. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by pgeorgan

[pgeorgan 77]

9 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

It's personal preference. Some people like their skates to fit properly and some like them a bit roomier aka half a size too big like you 😬. I'm being a cheeky c*nt but there's also nothing wrong with your preference. 

As for the donuts, other brands rely on the super thick ankle padding to conform and mold do your foot to create that customized fit. True doesn't rely solely on this. True customs do have thicker ankle padding though as I'm pretty sure it has to do with basing the boot off your foot scan and knowing exactly where to build the ankle bumps vs retails where it's probably more of a universal shape. 

If you look at Bauer and ccm retails these days, at least with the newer models it's literally thick ankle pads made of some kind of memory foam and there really isn't any depression built in. That's done bc it'll conform to any ankle shape. This is important especially for Bauer skates which are the least heat moldable out of the three big skate companies (true, Bauer, ccm). 

I found CCM and Bauer to be equally moldable.

I'm not really following your comment regarding scans. You must be talking about going the custom route. If the ankle is too roomy, it's going to stay that way. Wrapping it around my ankle will not make up for the extra positive space in the lateral direction, unless I clamp them during the baking process (which I see as a failure of the skate to fit in the first place). 

 

[Sniper9 530]

6 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

I found CCM and Bauer to be equally moldable.

I'm not really following your comment regarding scans. You must be talking about going the custom route. If the ankle is too roomy, it's going to stay that way. Wrapping it around my ankle will not make up for the extra positive space in the lateral direction, unless I clamp them during the baking process (which I see as a failure of the skate to fit in the first place). 

 

You obviously don't know much about true skates if you think the ankle wrap can't be adjusted significantly via baking. Unless you're talking about the HEEL and not the ankle. 

If you think ccm and Bauer mold the same then you also don't know much about those two brands. Maybe it's bc you haven't tried ccms one piece boot and have only tried their models with the outsole and diff composite quarter panel. Because the ccm one piece boots are night and day more moldable than Bauer's curv composite. 

YouTube heat molding true skates and you'll see that you can basically bend the skates facing in half when it's been baked. I've been using true for the last five years and have tried Bauer and ccm within that time so I'd like to think I am pretty knowledgeable when it comes to how each molds during the baking process. 

6 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Question:

Where do the two True variants sit on the negative-space scale relative to Fit 1 Bauer and Tapered CCM skates? How do they compare to the original Vapor 1X Pro 2.0's?

My biggest problem, frankly, is skates have been relatively too roomy out the box since everyone moved to these fit systems. Before that, Bauer vapors in a D-width fit me perfectly.  It does not seem Bauer can narrow their skates if you go custom. It seems that perhaps CCM can. Some say True, as well. 

You can't compare trues fit system to Bauer's or ccms. They are completely different, hence true having two widths to choose from and the other brands have three fit systems, and even though Bauer and ccm both have 3 fit systems they are quite unique within respective brands. Even different models within the same brands will fit slightly different in the same fit. 

Not sure much more to say but between the info Hills and I have provided it's up to you whether you want to continue to debate or accept the information as facts. 

6 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Sniper9

[pgeorgan 77]

12 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

You obviously don't know much about true skates if you think the ankle wrap can't be adjusted significantly via baking. Unless you're talking about the HEEL and not the ankle. 

If you think ccm and Bauer mold the same then you also don't know much about those two brands. Maybe it's bc you haven't tried ccms one piece boot and have only tried their models with the outsole and diff composite quarter panel. Because the ccm one piece boots are night and day more moldable than Bauer's curv composite. 

YouTube heat molding true skates and you'll see that you can basically bend the skates facing in half when it's been baked. I've been using true for the last five years and have tried Bauer and ccm within that time so I'd like to think I am pretty knowledgeable when it comes to how each molds during the baking process. 

Well I've skated in virtually every pair of Bauer skates made the last several years, as well as the most recent Ribcor's and Jetspeeds. So ya, what do I know.

I'm not particularly interested in folding my skate in half. The ideal skate for me will fit almost right out of the box, with minimal adjustments via baking. Like I said, if it needs that sort of correction after the fact, it's not a good fit to begin with. 

12 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

You can't compare trues fit system to Bauer's or ccms. They are completely different, hence true having two widths to choose from and the other brands have three fit systems, and even though Bauer and ccm both have 3 fit systems they are quite unique within respective brands. Even different models within the same brands will fit slightly different in the same fit. 

Not sure much more to say but between the info Hills and I have provided it's up to you whether you want to continue to debate or accept the information as facts. 

What facts? Try to be less offended. I get that you're a True super fan. People will respond better if they think you don't have some kind of agenda. 

[Hills 712]

8 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Question:

Where do the two True variants sit on the negative-space scale relative to Fit 1 Bauer and Tapered CCM skates? How do they compare to the original Vapor 1X Pro 2.0's?

My biggest problem, frankly, is skates have been relatively too roomy out the box since everyone moved to these fit systems. Before that, Bauer vapors in a D-width fit me perfectly.  It does not seem Bauer can narrow their skates if you go custom. It seems that perhaps CCM can. Some say True, as well. 

I can't say between the Fit 1 Bauer, but TF line are pretty roomy overall and the Cat line really slimmed them down with a lot less negative space in there.

[Sniper9 530]

1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

Well I've skated in virtually every pair of Bauer skates made the last several years, as well as the most recent Ribcor's and Jetspeeds. So ya, what do I know.

I'm not particularly interested in folding my skate in half. The ideal skate for me will fit almost right out of the box, with minimal adjustments via baking. Like I said, if it needs that sort of correction after the fact, it's not a good fit to begin with. 

What facts? Try to be less offended. I get that you're a True super fan. People will respond better if they think you don't have some kind of agenda. 

You thinking a skate should fit good out of the box without baking says it all right there.  Imagine thinking a skate should fit your foot great after it's been made and pre heat molded using a generic foot last that's not your own.... U realize that retail skates are pre heat molded right lol.  

Through all the skates you've tried on and you're still looking for a better fitting skate... Ironic. You're banking on a skate company making a retail skate using a foot last near identical to your own foot shape. Good luck.  A skates ability to mold to your foot and adapt to diff ranges of foot shapes doesn't mean it isn't a correct fit. It means it uses advanced materials to allow for this. If after baking the skate is able to fit you near perfect where it was no where close to pre bake, does not mean the skate is still a bad fit. 

I'm not offended at all. I'm annoyed. I could care less if people prefer Bauer or ccm over true but it's a fact that true and ccm skates use materials that allow better moldability than Bauer. 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Sniper9

[pgeorgan 77]

1 minute ago, Sniper9 said:

You thinking a skate should fit good out of the box without baking says it all right there.  Imagine thinking a skate should fit your foot great after it's been made and pre heat molded using a generic foot last that's not your own.... U realize that retail skates are pre heat molded right lol.

Through all the skates you've tried on and you're still looking for a better fitting skate... Ironic. 

I'm not offended at all. I'm annoyed. I could care less if people prefer Bauer or ccm over true but it's a fact that true and ccm skates use materials that allow better moldability than Bauer. 

 

 

 

Yes, "generic" based on thousands of foot scans. My foot just so happens to be a great off-the-shelf generic foot. 

I don't have gargoyle feet. I don't need to "fold [my] skate in half". Not everyone puts "ability to fold skate in half" as their #1 most desirable trait in a hockey skate. 

 

[pgeorgan 77]

4 minutes ago, Hills said:

I can't say between the Fit 1 Bauer, but TF line are pretty roomy overall and the Cat line really slimmed them down with a lot less negative space in there.

Probably not a good candidate for me, then. I appreciate the input, though. 

[RodneyPierce 11]

23 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

 it's a fact that true and ccm skates use materials that allow better moldability than Bauer. 

 

 

 

100% fact.

Edited December 31, 2022 by RodneyPierce

[pgeorgan 77]

1 hour ago, RodneyPierce said:

100% fact.

I don't think anyone contesting that you can "fold in half" the True skates. It's a tradeoff of stiffness for flexibility. I don't require that much "moldability".

I'm looking for the skate that has the best out-of-the-box fit to my foot, because I believe, in my experience, it has the best chance of having the best fit *after* baking. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by pgeorgan

[Sniper9 530]

5 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Yes, "generic" based on thousands of foot scans. My foot just so happens to be a great off-the-shelf generic foot. 

I don't have gargoyle feet. I don't need to "fold [my] skate in half". Not everyone puts "ability to fold skate in half" as their #1 most desirable trait in a hockey skate. 

 

Then why are you having this much trouble finding a skate that "fits"?  Ccm is based on thousands of scans and their fits are completely diff than Bauer. So the fact that the generic foot lasts are based on x amount of foot scans just means it'll generally fit the avg person decently, with the exceptions of not fitting some people at all and some people perfectly. 

[pgeorgan 77]

1 minute ago, Sniper9 said:

Then why are you having this much trouble finding a skate that "fits"?  Ccm is based on thousands of scans and their fits are completely diff than Bauer. So the fact that the generic foot lasts are based on x amount of foot scans just means it'll generally fit the avg person decently, with the exceptions of not fitting some people at all and some people perfectly. 

We get it. True Super Fan. 

 

[Sniper9 530]

3 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

We get it. True Super Fan. 

 

Good reply 🤡

[pgeorgan 77]

6 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Good reply 🤡

I made a claim based on my own personal foot scan, one which you are not privy to, and you tell me I'm "wrong". And just so we're all on the same page here, that claim was that no amount of baking is going to fix a boot if it is too roomy in the first place. 

Did you expect it to go differently? 

Since you clearly didn't read any of my posts, here it is in plain English: I am happiest in a Bauer Vapor 1x 2.0. If you tell me right now that a retail TF9 - after baking - will be just as good, if not better, in terms of eliminating negative space, I will order the skate - TODAY. I will even get a half-size smaller, per your suggestion. 

If this is not the case, then please stop droning on about "moldability". 

UPDATE: Happy New Year to me. I just ordered them. Is this the greatest skate ever made? Or is it all hype.

Edited January 1, 2023 by pgeorgan

[Sniper9 530]

12 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

I made a claim based on my own personal foot scan, one which you are not privy to, and you tell me I'm "wrong". And just so we're all on the same page here, that claim was that no amount of baking is going to fix a boot if it is too roomy in the first place. 

Did you expect it to go differently? 

Since you clearly didn't read any of my posts, here it is in plain English: I am happiest in a Bauer Vapor 1x 2.0. If you tell me right now that a retail TF9 - after baking - will be just as good, if not better, in terms of eliminating negative space, I will order the skate - TODAY. I will even get a half-size smaller, per your suggestion. 

If this is not the case, then please stop droning on about "moldability". 

UPDATE: Happy New Year to me. I just ordered them. Is this the greatest skate ever made? Or is it all hype.

You can't compare a true skate to an old Bauer skate. Heck you can't even compare hyperlites to machs. They all fit differently. My argument was that how Trues fit out of box is nowhere near how they fit after baking and should not be judged based on out of box feel. Bauer, maybe, because there's not a tonne of change post bake with Bauer's so seeing how they fit out of box is a better indicator of how they will fit post bake as you shouldn't expect a night and day difference. For Bauer's is I'll agree with you on where you state that out of box fit should be a good indicator of how the skates fit your feet. But it's not relevant with trues at all and to a degree with ccm as they are also very thernoformable. 

 

[flip12 714]

18 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

UPDATE: Happy New Year to me. I just ordered them. Is this the greatest skate ever made? Or is it all hype.

There’s ample room between those two extremes. As you’ve correctly pointed out, it’s very individual where the skate ends up on that spectrum.

 

5 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

You can't compare a true skate to an old Bauer skate. Heck you can't even compare hyperlites to machs. They all fit differently. 

You can and you actually have to. Otherwise it would be impossible to get a sense of how thermoformability and boot body assembly affect feel and performance for instance. At the end of the day they’re all hockey skates. They’re all comparable to one another. Some comparisons result in a greater degree on contrast, but that’s all an effect of comparison.

[pgeorgan 77]

12 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

You can't compare a true skate to an old Bauer skate. Heck you can't even compare hyperlites to machs

Rubbish.

12 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Bauer, maybe, because there's not a tonne of change post bake with Bauer's so seeing how they fit out of box is a better indicator of how they will fit post bake as you shouldn't expect a night and day difference

Not sure why this is necessarily a bad thing. If Bauer have a winning retail formula, is that a negative checkmark against them? Their skates fit me fantastic. Contrary to what you claim, it is night and day after the 175x3min bake. Could they be better? Sure. There's always room for improvement, whether that's with Bauer, CCM or True. 

12 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

But it's not relevant with trues at all and to a degree with ccm as they are also very thernoformable. 

Which brings me to my next point. I tried Jetspeeds and Ribcors and I have to say, if they are more thermoformable, it was undetectable on my end. IMHO, I think it's a myth that might have something to do with their baking instructions being a healthy 45 degrees higher coming in at 220x2min per their package insert. And now that I'm thinking about it, maybe that had something to do with why my Ribcor cracked from a shot during the 90-day trial. Who knows. 

Reading up on True, it looks like 195 degree for 10 minutes. That's like cooking a chicken. 

At any rate, I'll be getting mine in a few days and will def. report back. Still unsure on the sizing, whether its half or full. Also not going to be thrilled about the smaller holder. Can't fault them though, nobody is perfect. 

[stick9 890]

The 'bauers aren't as moldable as brand X' stance isn't entirely accurate. Ive seen some pretty wild punches on Bauer's. I've personally had Bauer's clamped and hand shaped to my feet. It took a bit more effort but it's definitely doable. 

You'd think if True and CCM had a distinct advantage in terms fit they'd have a bigger share of the pro player market. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by stick9

[althoma1 574]

9 hours ago, flip12 said:

You can and you actually have to. Otherwise it would be impossible to get a sense of how thermoformability and boot body assembly affect feel and performance for instance. At the end of the day they’re all hockey skates. They’re all comparable to one another. Some comparisons result in a greater degree on contrast, but that’s all an effect of comparison.

That's a good point, but the True skates are designed to be baked, so it's unfair to compare them unbaked to a skate that doesn't change much after baking (like an older Bauer boot where baking only helps with break in). If you are comparing them both after baking, then it's a good comparison.

[pgeorgan 77]

On 12/14/2021 at 7:23 PM, JSchultz said:

I am finding with the TF9 that even after dropping to a 6R from a 6.5D in Bauer Vapor 1X, they're still a half size too big. Has anyone else who uses the regular sizing found that they were a full size down from bauer/ccm in true?

Likely because (based on what I'm reading about the Trues from this thread) those particular Vapors start off with significantly less negative space right out the box.

If I put almost any tension on the laces when I had a pair, the sides of my feet would be crushed by end of the game. If you hit the sweet spot though, the skates were money. I think Johnny Gaudreau has gone back to his 1X's. 

My dream skate is the 1x 2.0 with the updated Vapor toe cap. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by pgeorgan

[JSchultz 25]

8 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

Likely because (based on what I'm reading about the Trues from this thread) those particular Vapors start off with significantly less negative space right out the box.

If I put almost any tension on the laces when I had a pair, the sides of my feet would be crushed by end of the game. If you hit the sweet spot though, the skates were money. I think Johnny Gaudreau has gone back to his 1X's. 

My dream skate is the 1x 2.0 with the updated Vapor toe cap. 

Yeah, the fit definitely changed from the 1x/2x. I am skating hyper lite fit 1 now and there is significantly more room in the toe box and forefoot now. The 1x/2x were tops for minimizing negative space, for sure.