Looking for flex advice 82 or 87

[justinpryor 5]

As the title says, I have been running a vapor flylite at 87 for this past year and love it. My shots are quick and powerful. I used to use a 102 and swore by it, but since bauer went to its new sticks they dont make 102 in the P14. Over the last year I transitioned to the 87 got really good at it, and started to change my shooting style to quick release. Its worked great and I can use 87. 

It worked so well I thought perhaps I should try a 77 and it will be even better, however i found i over powered the stick and didn't like 77 at all. Shots were weak and I felt the stick bend far to much. Fast forward again, 

Now I am finding the 87 a bit stiff, as I have lost a bunch of weight ( was 210 now 190 ) and I am finding I miss shoot on 87 sometimes. I see bauer does 82 on custom and was thinking of trying it. Just hoping someone else made this switch and can provide some thoughts between the 77, 82, 87 bauer provides and had some thoughts. Just didnt want to end up in the to whippy boat again. 

Appreciate any help

 

 

[Cavs019 708]

It feels about 5 flex points higher than 77 and 5 lower than 87. 🙂

In all seriousness - it’s a good compromise if you want a bit more give vs the 87 but don’t like the potential lag or noodle feeling you’d get with a 77. No one can say one is better than the other as it’s purely a matter of preference and on ice feel. You might not need to go custom either as 82 is super common on Sideline and Ebay unless you use a more quirky curve.

Kickpoint also plays a role here as I find the higher up you go the softer the stick feels - I.e my 77 1S sticks feel softer than a Vapor in the same flex. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Cavs019

[Nate willy 0]

2 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

It feels about 5 flex points higher than 77 and 5 lower than 82. 🙂

In all seriousness - it’s a good compromise if you want a bit more give vs the 87 but don’t like the potential lag or noodle feeling you’d get with a 77. No one can say one is better than the other as it’s purely a matter of preference and on ice feel. You might not need to go custom either as 82 is super common on Sideline and Ebay unless you use a more quirky curve.

Kickpoint also plays a role here as I find the higher up you go the softer the stick feels - I.e my 77 1S sticks feel softer than a Vapor in the same flex. 

I agree with the kick point idea. When I used to use a supreme stick, the 77 flex was absolutely perfect, but when I transferred to a lower kick, I noticed that I needed a higher flex or it felt like I was shooting a noodle. What flex profile do you currently use? And i’d say that if you go mid-high kick you can drop a little in flex, but if you go low kick, maybe add a bit of flex. (Kevin fiala forward for the wild is 5’10” and uses a 70 flex 2s) and brock boeser uses a low kick ribcor at 85 flex)

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

Not sure many will agree with me, but I’ve done the same experimentation. 
I had a few 77’s that I found too flexible so I cut them down and put a 2-4” plug in the make the height correct again. Stiffens it up a bit without making the full jump up in flex

[boo10 323]

7 hours ago, Buzz_LightBeer said:

Not sure many will agree with me, but I’ve done the same experimentation. 
I had a few 77’s that I found too flexible so I cut them down and put a 2-4” plug in the make the height correct again. Stiffens it up a bit without making the full jump up in flex

I'm inclined to believe you since you say it works, but don't understand how.  The physics say you should end up with exactly the same flex as before you cut it down.  Only way I can understand it working is if the stick was flexing right below your top hand.

[Sniper9 529]

28 minutes ago, boo10 said:

I'm inclined to believe you since you say it works, but don't understand how.  The physics say you should end up with exactly the same flex as before you cut it down.  Only way I can understand it working is if the stick was flexing right below your top hand.

I can see this being bc the knob is not actually part of the stick as one piece. It's added on and has diff properties as the actual stick. The feel may not feel drastically different but for those who are keen, I can see it feeling diff. Whether the ACTUAL flex rating changes could be a different story though. 

[ParabolicActivity 48]

I grabbed a sports radar this spring and have been very disappointed to find that flex has very little effect on the speed of my shot until it drops off from being too whippy. From 110 down to 85, it really seems to be hand speed more than anything else. The release feels very different, and my Ribcor Pro3 (85 flex, P02 curve) fires harder than any other by a few MPHs on a clapper, but overall the speed is the same. I was really hoping to see bigger differences considering how much time I've spent worrying about flex. So between 87 and 82, just go with what feels better. The actual effect on your shot is likely minimal.

 

For reference, wristers come in at roughly 60-65 mph. No skates, with a shooting pad. So Im not exactly an expert on getting the most out of stick.

[Cavs019 708]

The benefit is how quickly you can get the shot off your blade and from different body positions/angles. Shot quickness > pure shot speed. 

It’s also important to go with what you feel most accurate with. A 100mph shot is useless if it’s the equivalent of a cross corner dump in. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

22 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

I can see this being bc the knob is not actually part of the stick as one piece. It's added on and has diff properties as the actual stick. The feel may not feel drastically different but for those who are keen, I can see it feeling diff. Whether the ACTUAL flex rating changes could be a different story though. 

There are players that I know personally who will actually cut the end off a wooden plug and then insert that into the end of the shaft to stiffen it or to adjust the weight balance. One of them actually inserts two wooden end plugs into his stick to add more counterweight and stiffen it. I cannot confirm or deny that it affects the stiffness but its obvious that adding weight will affect the balance point. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[Vet88 674]

10 hours ago, ParabolicActivity said:

I grabbed a sports radar this spring and have been very disappointed to find that flex has very little effect on the speed of my shot until it drops off from being too whippy. From 110 down to 85, it really seems to be hand speed more than anything else. The release feels very different, and my Ribcor Pro3 (85 flex, P02 curve) fires harder than any other by a few MPHs on a clapper, but overall the speed is the same. I was really hoping to see bigger differences considering how much time I've spent worrying about flex. So between 87 and 82, just go with what feels better. The actual effect on your shot is likely minimal.

This. I did the same thing and had the same results and it really pissed me off. Then I learnt the technical part of shooting, how to do it properly. My shot went to s**t for about a year, nothing worked properly because the mechanics were so different and I was having to unlearn everything bad and relearn the good. Then the pieces started to click and with the same stick that I shot wristers at 65mph, 18 months later was consistently at 73mph with the occasional mid 70's. No gym work, no stick change, just solid technique.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Vet88

[Sniper9 529]

23 minutes ago, Vet88 said:

This. I did the same thing and had the same results and it really pissed me off. Then I learnt the technical part of shooting, how to do it properly. My shot went to s**t for about a year, nothing worked properly because the mechanics were so different and I was having to unlearn everything bad and relearn the good. Then the pieces started to click and with the same stick that I shot wristers at 65mph, 18 months later was consistently at 73mph with the occasional mid 70's. No gym work, no stick change, just solid technique.

If you take your time and load every shot it may not be much diff. But if you're wanting to get a shot off in diff positions where you may not be able to take your time and load the stick completely, that's probably where the flex and kick point will play a bigger role.  Or off balance shots with a 100 flex vs 85 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Sniper9

[justinpryor 5]

sorry for late replies, was out of town this weekend. 

Right my 77 was a supreme, 2spro and it was a noodle. I have not used a low kick 77. But i will probably look for a custom flylite in the 82. So its interesting I felt the opposite. The flylite loads really well but for some reason ( maybe weight loss ) feels stiffer to me these days. 

I have switched curves to the P28 as the P14 has been so hard to find these days. Seems to be going ok. In fact i thought i could never switch but my last game with the P28 was quite good shooting. Just need to work on accuracy. 

I appreciate all the feedback. from what I gather i can also work on technique a bit as well as the flex difference shouldnt have much difference in shot velocity. 

 

 

[justinpryor 5]

On 8/16/2020 at 5:33 AM, ParabolicActivity said:

I grabbed a sports radar this spring and have been very disappointed to find that flex has very little effect on the speed of my shot until it drops off from being too whippy. From 110 down to 85, it really seems to be hand speed more than anything else. The release feels very different, and my Ribcor Pro3 (85 flex, P02 curve) fires harder than any other by a few MPHs on a clapper, but overall the speed is the same. I was really hoping to see bigger differences considering how much time I've spent worrying about flex. So between 87 and 82, just go with what feels better. The actual effect on your shot is likely minimal.

 

For reference, wristers come in at roughly 60-65 mph. No skates, with a shooting pad. So Im not exactly an expert on getting the most out of stick.

I do like the idea of testing it. I too found something similar awhile back, a friend had a radar gun at a skate around and we were taking blasts and i thought between my flylite, 2spro and nexus there would be shot speed differences, but no matter what I did slappers we 87-90mph and my snaps and wristers were always 75 ish no matter the stick. I was a bit heavier then would love to compare now to just flylite and lighter flex. 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

As others said, flex doesn't necessarily translate into one shooting harder/faster.  It's more about how much effort (or less) that you need to get off similar shots.  I can shoot just as hard with a 100 flex stick as I can with an 80 flex stick, but I need to focus more on technique with the 100 flex.  Not to mention, my hands/wrists appreciate the 80 flex a lot more.

[justinpryor 5]

1 hour ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

As others said, flex doesn't necessarily translate into one shooting harder/faster.  It's more about how much effort (or less) that you need to get off similar shots.  I can shoot just as hard with a 100 flex stick as I can with an 80 flex stick, but I need to focus more on technique with the 100 flex.  Not to mention, my hands/wrists appreciate the 80 flex a lot more.

Makes sense. I guess you have to make adjustments based on what it is you are using, used to etc. Yah I have no idea how i used to use 100 flex sticks. Its so difficult now that my shooting habits have changed. 

[puckpilot 312]

I agree that in order to get more out of the whippy stick, you have tweak your technique. I mean the hardest clocked shot in pro hockey was just broken by 6'1 205lb Martin Frk using a 70 flex stick. It just shows that whippy or stiff, you can get a lot of velocity if your technique is right. 

 

[justinpryor 5]

18 hours ago, puckpilot said:

I agree that in order to get more out of the whippy stick, you have tweak your technique. I mean the hardest clocked shot in pro hockey was just broken by 6'1 205lb Martin Frk using a 70 flex stick. It just shows that whippy or stiff, you can get a lot of velocity if your technique is right. 

 

wow insane. 70? holy cow. guess that proves it eh. 

[Sniper9 529]

What I find interesting is that generally shots may not be much faster between diff kick points but the feel makes you think otherwise. I've never tested it but with mid high kicks like Supremes I feel so much lag and with the softer blades it just feels like it's going slower due to the lag. It with low kick and stiffer blades it makes u feel like the puck is flying off the blade (for me at least)

[justinpryor 5]

I agree, with my flylite I have let some rockets go with snap shots that come off really quick, but the 2spro which is bauers worst stick ever in my opinion, it just lags, but with the radar gun they just all shot close in velocity. so its release speed how fast it leaves the stick for sure and kick point determine feel but not really the speed if in fact you get the shot off. Sticks have improved kick points, release speed and ease but overall cant bend physics, a hockey stick can shoot a puck max about 109 mph 😉 cant get more out of it. 

 

[puckpilot 312]

For myself, I've clocked my shots, and I videoed myself shooting. For the most part, I've found that feel can be a big fat liar. I've taken shots where I swear it broke the sound barrier, but either the clock or the video shows the shot wasn't all that special. I've also taken shots that felt effortless, and either the clock or video shows it came off pretty hot, well... hot relative to myself.  

[Sniper9 529]

8 hours ago, puckpilot said:

For myself, I've clocked my shots, and I videoed myself shooting. For the most part, I've found that feel can be a big fat liar. I've taken shots where I swear it broke the sound barrier, but either the clock or the video shows the shot wasn't all that special. I've also taken shots that felt effortless, and either the clock or video shows it came off pretty hot, well... hot relative to myself.  

Kinda how one piece sticks actually don't shoot harder than wooden sticks. The just feel so much better (depending who you ask). How quick it pops off the blade is definitely different though, but shit speeds don't seem to really matter. Ie, Al McInnes in this year's all star comp. 

[justinpryor 5]

55 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

Kinda how one piece sticks actually don't shoot harder than wooden sticks. The just feel so much better (depending who you ask). How quick it pops off the blade is definitely different though, but shit speeds don't seem to really matter. Ie, Al McInnes in this year's all star comp. 

yep great point, guys were shooting 100 mph with wood. The tech today is about release and ease of doing so. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by justinpryor

[puckpilot 312]

6 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Kinda how one piece sticks actually don't shoot harder than wooden sticks. The just feel so much better (depending who you ask). How quick it pops off the blade is definitely different though, but shit speeds don't seem to really matter. Ie, Al McInnes in this year's all star comp. 

I think there's a yes and no component to this. Al Macinnis is proof that wood can be every bit as effective as composites. Not an expert, but the thing about wood is its properties are inconsistent. The tree grows like the tree grows, so no matter how good the manufacturing process is, it's the luck of the draw as to exactly what you get. I remember hearing stories about NHL players picking through large batches of wood sticks, picking out two or three that they liked, and sending the rest back. 

With composites, you can control everything, so everything can be dialed in to fit the player better, and IMHO, there's no bigger factor in getting dialed in than flex. When a player gets sent 10 sticks with their specs, there's a high degree of certainty they'll all feel the same. And if a player feels confident that every stick will do what they want when they want, they'll perform better. 

For example, a player practices with a wood stick, gets used to the way it kicks and flexes, but then breaks it. The next stick, though the same brand, the wood may flex and kick differently enough where it's just not the same at all, so there's a constant tweaking that needs to be done with each new stick. So, technique is even more critical, so you can make those tweaks without throwing things off too much.

Edited August 19, 2020 by puckpilot

[justinpryor 5]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:24 PM, puckpilot said:

I think there's a yes and no component to this. Al Macinnis is proof that wood can be every bit as effective as composites. Not an expert, but the thing about wood is its properties are inconsistent. The tree grows like the tree grows, so no matter how good the manufacturing process is, it's the luck of the draw as to exactly what you get. I remember hearing stories about NHL players picking through large batches of wood sticks, picking out two or three that they liked, and sending the rest back. 

With composites, you can control everything, so everything can be dialed in to fit the player better, and IMHO, there's no bigger factor in getting dialed in than flex. When a player gets sent 10 sticks with their specs, there's a high degree of certainty they'll all feel the same. And if a player feels confident that every stick will do what they want when they want, they'll perform better. 

For example, a player practices with a wood stick, gets used to the way it kicks and flexes, but then breaks it. The next stick, though the same brand, the wood may flex and kick differently enough where it's just not the same at all, so there's a constant tweaking that needs to be done with each new stick. So, technique is even more critical, so you can make those tweaks without throwing things off too much.

Fair enough. plus the weigh a tonne so I wouldnt use them anyway haha

[MrData 93]

82 flex is objectively better

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/s