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Ellipse Profiles – The next revolution in skate profiling?

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11 hours ago, kkskate said:

They’ve essentially stated the Ellipse Zero is equivalent to the Quad 0, Ellipse 1 is Quad 1, etc. and should be used as a starting point.   Agreed, the reasoning is a bit vague though it seems like most of the information they’ve released suggests that the ellipse shapes create a more seamless blending between the sections. Myself and some other will be testing them out this week. 

This has been one of the points I was trying to make, the Quads are seemlessly blended.  It’s not like you have a 6’ section which abruptly changes to a 9’.  You have a point on the blade that is a 6’ and a point on the blade that is 9’ and between the two it has to gradually transition, else you would have a series of scallops.

So while the quad or Zuperior may not mathematically be an ellipse, what is the practical difference between them?

Prosharp needs Some much better product management and go to market than just claiming “revolutionary” new shapes.  What problem is it solving?  Who benefits?  How does that get communicated to the end user?

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3 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

This has been one of the points I was trying to make, the Quads are seemlessly blended.  It’s not like you have a 6’ section which abruptly changes to a 9’.  You have a point on the blade that is a 6’ and a point on the blade that is 9’ and between the two it has to gradually transition, else you would have a series of scallops.

So while the quad or Zuperior may not mathematically be an ellipse, what is the practical difference between them?

Prosharp needs Some much better product management and go to market than just claiming “revolutionary” new shapes.  What problem is it solving?  Who benefits?  How does that get communicated to the end user?

I think what they are saying is now they are going to shape the steel to mimic that of an ellipse. Drawing out the arc length of a series of circles is a good approximation for an ellipse, or any sort of curvature, for that matter. Emphasis on "approximation". Runners already look closer to an ellipse than a circle, from the side. Seems like a natural progression to what they're already doing.

So rather than moving to "quint", and then 6, 7, 8 radii, just rip the bandaid off and go with "ellipse". 

However, I don't see how they communicate the differences to customers, as most won't understand the equation for an ellipse. I doubt most customers even understand what a radius is. Do I care? No, as long as they execute it properly. I'll definitely be one of the first to try it at my LHS, I'm sure. 

Edited by pgeorgan

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11 hours ago, kkskate said:

I'd think if you're not a fan of the Quads you would not be excited about this release. As a skater that loves the quads and knows many others who do also I am at least intrigued by what they have to offer.  It's been quite a while since they've been refreshed.

I am very intrigued. My issue is that the Quads done in my area are not done properly. I know factually that a profile with great than 2 (IE: 9-11 works to say a 8-13 does not) Meaning the scientific study that was done showed that a variable larger than 2 was in efficient and caused issues with the transition. So I have been asking for ages that a scientific study be done to prove the advantage to the Quad as in my opinion the .5 (The .5 was my recommendation to Pro Sharp and made for the OHL team I was working with at the time)  is the only one that does what it says it will from the science as they are using here on the Ellipse. So if I had a further breakdown on the Ellipse it might sway me to get a machine and bars. 

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I know it’s still super new, but curious how shops feel about Pro Sharp launching this brand new product after they’ve already bought the quad and zuperior templates and still trying to get customers sold on those.

Seems like they are making a jump from a technology with proven success that a lot of people can/have benefit from (current profiling options) to “this one goes to 11!” type marketing that we see on sticks where you’re not really getting anything new/better, just a bunch of jargon and price increase. 

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1 hour ago, start_today said:

I know it’s still super new, but curious how shops feel about Pro Sharp launching this brand new product after they’ve already bought the quad and zuperior templates and still trying to get customers sold on those.

Seems like they are making a jump from a technology with proven success that a lot of people can/have benefit from (current profiling options) to “this one goes to 11!” type marketing that we see on sticks where you’re not really getting anything new/better, just a bunch of jargon and price increase. 

I am all for evolution but it has to be validated by science.

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Personally I really like the feel of the triple radius I switched to on my goalie skates early this year.  It could be psychological but I definitely feel like it works for me better than the dual radius I was using previously.   I do wish a shop near me had a ProSharp so I could try some of these options on my forward skates as well.   I only skate out a handful of times per year so it hasn't been worth it to me to send that steel off for a profile yet.  But given how much I hate how the steel on my new TF9's feels, that day may be approaching if a different sharpening doesn't fix it. 

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12 hours ago, kkskate said:

Today at 1 PM

A discussion with Joey and John from the ProSharp Canada offices about the Zuperior, Quad and brand new Ellipse profiles.

https://fb.watch/1xEGxM2sCZ/

So am I wrong in hearing that the Ellipse is smother than a Quad? 

Just what I took from this at the end of the discussion.

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20 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

So am I wrong in hearing that the Ellipse is smother than a Quad? 

Just what I took from this at the end of the discussion.

That's what I gathered as well. I was hoping for more specific information than the webinar provided. Guess I'll just have to try out the profiles and see. 

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1 hour ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

That's what I gathered as well. I was hoping for more specific information than the webinar provided. Guess I'll just have to try out the profiles and see. 

I skated on the Ellipse 1 a few times this week.  I was on the the Quad 1 before this.  I was able to make the switch quickly with little to no adjustment.  I'd say it did feel a bit smoother in transitions.  I didn't feel an overwhelming difference coming from the Quad 1 though I'll be using the Ellipse 1 going forward.  Hoping to try the other profiles over the next few weeks.

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6 hours ago, 218hockey said:

What does this mean???

Pretty much what I said. Having worked with Pro Sharp machines since the late 90s I understand how things are supposed to be done.  And locally they are not done correctly.  

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9 hours ago, kkskate said:

I skated on the Ellipse 1 a few times this week.  I was on the the Quad 1 before this.  I was able to make the switch quickly with little to no adjustment.  I'd say it did feel a bit smoother in transitions.  I didn't feel an overwhelming difference coming from the Quad 1 though I'll be using the Ellipse 1 going forward.  Hoping to try the other profiles over the next few weeks.

Can you overlay the Ellipse I template on the Quad I so I can see how they look differently?

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13 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

Can you overlay the Ellipse I template on the Quad I so I can see how they look differently?

The differences are very subtle, not sure how much would be visible.  If you were to stack them with the Ellipse 1 on the bottom and the Quad 1 on top you'd see the Ellipse slightly more at the toe and the heel.  The center looks about the same.

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17 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

So have we determined if the ellipse is symmetrical or asymmetrical?

The shape that is transferred to the blade does not seem symmetrical.  It's a similar shape to the Quad's.  Whether it is multiple ellipse shapes blended together or a single ellipse shape that is on an angle is difficult to say.

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On 11/4/2020 at 11:58 AM, kkskate said:

The shape that is transferred to the blade does not seem symmetrical.  It's a similar shape to the Quad's.  Whether it is multiple ellipse shapes blended together or a single ellipse shape that is on an angle is difficult to say.

It's a single shape.  That's what they've been saying this entire time.

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Right, an ellipse is a single shape but depending on what part of the ellipse you utilize it could have different profiles created.

Edited by BenBreeg
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58 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

Right, an ellipse is a single shape but depending on what part of the ellipse you utilize it could have different profiles created.

When I first heard about this, I was confused because I just assumed the the ellipse would be symmetrical, which would then essentially just be a circle, (Since you'd have to use the long arc of the ellipse).  I think a more accurate description would be an "offset ellipse", meaning that depending on which section of the long arc is used, you'll get a graduating lengthening of the arc from one end to the other.

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4 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

This whole things makes me just shake my head. 

 

 

Why?  I'm genuinely curious, as I'm planning to get some form of profile done on my forward skates for the first time.   I know what i like on my goalie skates, but am torn between a triple, quad and now an ellipse for my forward skates. 

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22 minutes ago, puckstopper said:

Why?  I'm genuinely curious, as I'm planning to get some form of profile done on my forward skates for the first time.   I know what i like on my goalie skates, but am torn between a triple, quad and now an ellipse for my forward skates. 

Talk to Lee Harris in Columbus. I did his skates way back and he has had his copied from the trainer there. Or just ask him what he thinks. Probably one of the best skating coaches I have met. I have met a lot.....LOL. That being said there are so many good ones and new ones coming around all the time really making an effort to help kids get better. 

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39 minutes ago, PUCKSTOPPROSHOPJL said:

I got this from PROSHARP> 

This Video may help a lot 

 

 

Honestly, this still doesn't really explain anything any better than I previously understood.

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