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Ellipse Profiles – The next revolution in skate profiling?

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1 minute ago, jgold47 said:

Same.  Although if I get a new profile I’ll do it w/new XS holders. I’m on the older true holder and it’s hard to find steel.  
 

thanks for the heads up that it works. The zeros should be no problem then.  

I think you'll like it.  DM me if you want steel for the older True holders (Bladetech or STEP).  I still skate on the older nut and bolt model though I recently purchased new ones with the Shift.

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Ok, had a chance to test all the Ellipse 0, 1, and 2 yesterday vs Quad 0, 1, and 2. Here is a quick summary. Ill write up a full review later this week. This was all done with blind testing. I had a friend take all of the steel sets and mark them as A, B, C, D, E, and F so it would not be possible for me to determine which profile I was using. All steel was sharpened to 3/4".

First of all, a big thank you to @kkskate for profiling the Ellipse profiles for me. You did a fantastic job! I always give credit where credit is due. If anyone needs a profile definately reach out to him. Great service, prices and excellent work! 

I typically skate on a Quad 2 and have always felt the Quad 0 and 1 are too aggressive for me in the toe area. I also prefer glide, stability, and top-end speed more than agility. So please keep that in mind when reading my feedback. 

I used each set of steel for 20 minutes in a pick-up games with friends and some of their kids who are back home for winter break. Some of the kids attend prep school and the adults have all played high-level hockey, ACHA, D3, D1, AHL, Major Juniors, and such. While we like to have fun all of us still play earnestly without attempting to hurt each other. 

With all that being said. On to the review and rankings:

Ellipse 0 = Considering I dislike the Quad 0 I was shocked that this was actually my second favorite profile of the bunch. It feels like they didn't go as aggressive on the toe as the Quad 0, went a little longer in the middle, and then shorter the heel a bit. Overall this was a very good feeling profile. I ranked this as my second favorite. 

Ellipse 1 = Considering I also was never a huge fan of the Quad 1 I was surprised that this was my most favorite profile. Everything on it felt effortless. Plenty of agility, glide, bite, and stability. This felt similar to a Quad 2 but with a slightly smaller heel. Almost like a blend of a Quad 0.5, Quad 1, and Quad 2. This was by far my favorite profile of the bunch. 

Ellipse 2 = I would have assumed since I like the Quad 2 so much that I would have liked this profile this as well. I did not. It felt long and cumbersome. Kind of like a Quad 2 in the front and a Zuperior in the middle and heel. I really didn't like this profile at all. This profile ranked last out of the six. 

Quad 0 = Still not a fan. Feels too small and aggressive for me and my skating style. It's better than a standard 10' but I think I just don't move my feet fast enough for this profile to match my skating style. I ranked this fouth.

Quad 1= Still not a fan. Everything on paper says this should be a profile that I would like but I have never been a fan. I dislike the toe and middle but the heel feels ok. I ranked this fifth. 

Quad 2 = Still my favorite Quad of the bunch. Not nearly as good as the Ellipse 0 and Ellipse 1 but If I had to go with a Quad this would be my choice. Good speed, stability, and glide. You do sacrifice some agility but I will take top-end speed over agility any day. This ranked third. 

Summary:

1: Ellipse 1
2: Ellipse 0
3: Quad 2
4: Quad 0
5: Quad 1
6: Ellipse 2

Edited by SkateWorksPNW
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1 minute ago, start_today said:

Do we know if there are plans in the works for an Ellipse .5?

I haven't heard of such. Not sure if there is much of a benefit though with how the new Ellipse profiles feel. I definitely won't be going back to the Quad after skating on the Ellipse.

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So I just got on the ice for the first time with an Ellipse 1.  I found @kkskate while searching online for someone nearby to do an Ellipse for me and want to second everything @SkateWorksPNW had to say about the stellar customer service I received from him.  

I've had my goalie skates profiled for many years now but rarely skate out so have never bothered with doing my player skates.  However, i just bought a pair of True TF9s and really felt like I wasn't happy with how the steel felt compared to my old CCM RBZs.  So, with all the chatter around Ellipse I decided to give it a whirl.   After several emails back and forth I settled on an Ellipse 1 with only 10 degrees of forward pitch to try to offset the feeling of being pitched too far forward on the True skates.  Now that the blades are profiled I'm much happier with them than before.  I can't match SWPNW's experience with various profiles but I can definitely say that the E1 is a significant improvement over the stock profile.   When it's time to re-profile I may try the E0 for some extra agility but I'm sold on the Ellipse line!

 

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3 hours ago, puckstopper said:

So I just got on the ice for the first time with an Ellipse 1.  I found @kkskate while searching online for someone nearby to do an Ellipse for me and want to second everything @SkateWorksPNW had to say about the stellar customer service I received from him.  

I've had my goalie skates profiled for many years now but rarely skate out so have never bothered with doing my player skates.  However, i just bought a pair of True TF9s and really felt like I wasn't happy with how the steel felt compared to my old CCM RBZs.  So, with all the chatter around Ellipse I decided to give it a whirl.   After several emails back and forth I settled on an Ellipse 1 with only 10 degrees of forward pitch to try to offset the feeling of being pitched too far forward on the True skates.  Now that the blades are profiled I'm much happier with them than before.  I can't match SWPNW's experience with various profiles but I can definitely say that the E1 is a significant improvement over the stock profile.   When it's time to re-profile I may try the E0 for some extra agility but I'm sold on the Ellipse line!

 

Thanks for the comment!  The only thing I'd add is that you ended up with the 10 mm pivot point offset for moderate pitch.  I think it equates to ~0.6 degrees forward pitch.  This is half of the default offset embedded in the template.  10 degrees would be quite a lot 😉

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On 12/27/2020 at 9:41 AM, SkateWorksPNW said:

Ok, had a chance to test all the Ellipse 0, 1, and 2 yesterday vs Quad 0, 1, and 2. Here is a quick summary. Ill write up a full review later this week. This was all done with blind testing. I had a friend take all of the steel sets and mark them as A, B, C, D, E, and F so it would not be possible for me to determine which profile I was using. All steel was sharpened to 3/4".

First of all, a big thank you to @kkskate for profiling the Ellipse profiles for me. You did a fantastic job! I always give credit where credit is due. If anyone needs a profile definately reach out to him. Great service, prices and excellent work! 

I typically skate on a Quad 2 and have always felt the Quad 0 and 1 are too aggressive for me in the toe area. I also prefer glide, stability, and top-end speed more than agility. So please keep that in mind when reading my feedback. 

I used each set of steel for 20 minutes in a pick-up games with friends and some of their kids who are back home for winter break. Some of the kids attend prep school and the adults have all played high-level hockey, ACHA, D3, D1, AHL, Major Juniors, and such. While we like to have fun all of us still play earnestly without attempting to hurt each other. 

With all that being said. On to the review and rankings:

Ellipse 0 = Considering I dislike the Quad 0 I was shocked that this was actually my second favorite profile of the bunch. It feels like they didn't go as aggressive on the toe as the Quad 0, went a little longer in the middle, and then shorter the heel a bit. Overall this was a very good feeling profile. I ranked this as my second favorite. 

Ellipse 1 = Considering I also was never a huge fan of the Quad 1 I was surprised that this was my most favorite profile. Everything on it felt effortless. Plenty of agility, glide, bite, and stability. This felt similar to a Quad 2 but with a slightly smaller heel. Almost like a blend of a Quad 0.5, Quad 1, and Quad 2. This was by far my favorite profile of the bunch. 

Ellipse 2 = I would have assumed since I like the Quad 2 so much that I would have liked this profile this as well. I did not. It felt long and cumbersome. Kind of like a Quad 2 in the front and a Zuperior in the middle and heel. I really didn't like this profile at all. This profile ranked last out of the six. 

Quad 0 = Still not a fan. Feels too small and aggressive for me and my skating style. It's better than a standard 10' but I think I just don't move my feet fast enough for this profile to match my skating style. I ranked this fouth.

Quad 1= Still not a fan. Everything on paper says this should be a profile that I would like but I have never been a fan. I dislike the toe and middle but the heel feels ok. I ranked this fifth. 

Quad 2 = Still my favorite Quad of the bunch. Not nearly as good as the Ellipse 0 and Ellipse 1 but If I had to go with a Quad this would be my choice. Good speed, stability, and glide. You do sacrifice some agility but I will take top-end speed over agility any day. This ranked third. 

Summary:

1: Ellipse 1
2: Ellipse 0
3: Quad 2
4: Quad 0
5: Quad 1
6: Ellipse 2

Great post.

I just started using the Quad 0.5 before the shut down etc.  I really like the Quad 0.5 (size 9.5 boot, 3/4 sharpen).  I was wondering if you can tell me how the Ellipse 1 is different  than the Quad 0.5 (8-10-12-14)?

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3 hours ago, Beflar said:

Great post.

I just started using the Quad 0.5 before the shut down etc.  I really like the Quad 0.5 (size 9.5 boot, 3/4 sharpen).  I was wondering if you can tell me how the Ellipse 1 is different  than the Quad 0.5 (8-10-12-14)?

I don't have both of the templates in hand otherwise I would scan them and then import the images into CAD so we could visually determine the differences. Maybe @kkskate would be willing to scan them 😉 

On 12/27/2020 at 10:41 AM, SkateWorksPNW said:

Ok, had a chance to test all the Ellipse 0, 1, and 2 yesterday vs Quad 0, 1, and 2. Here is a quick summary. Ill write up a full review later this week. This was all done with blind testing. I had a friend take all of the steel sets and mark them as A, B, C, D, E, and F so it would not be possible for me to determine which profile I was using. All steel was sharpened to 3/4".

First of all, a big thank you to @kkskate for profiling the Ellipse profiles for me. You did a fantastic job! I always give credit where credit is due. If anyone needs a profile definately reach out to him. Great service, prices and excellent work! 

I typically skate on a Quad 2 and have always felt the Quad 0 and 1 are too aggressive for me in the toe area. I also prefer glide, stability, and top-end speed more than agility. So please keep that in mind when reading my feedback. 

I used each set of steel for 20 minutes in a pick-up games with friends and some of their kids who are back home for winter break. Some of the kids attend prep school and the adults have all played high-level hockey, ACHA, D3, D1, AHL, Major Juniors, and such. While we like to have fun all of us still play earnestly without attempting to hurt each other. 

With all that being said. On to the review and rankings:

Ellipse 0 = Considering I dislike the Quad 0 I was shocked that this was actually my second favorite profile of the bunch. It feels like they didn't go as aggressive on the toe as the Quad 0, went a little longer in the middle, and then shorter the heel a bit. Overall this was a very good feeling profile. I ranked this as my second favorite. 

Ellipse 1 = Considering I also was never a huge fan of the Quad 1 I was surprised that this was my most favorite profile. Everything on it felt effortless. Plenty of agility, glide, bite, and stability. This felt similar to a Quad 2 but with a slightly smaller heel. Almost like a blend of a Quad 0.5, Quad 1, and Quad 2. This was by far my favorite profile of the bunch. 

Ellipse 2 = I would have assumed since I like the Quad 2 so much that I would have liked this profile this as well. I did not. It felt long and cumbersome. Kind of like a Quad 2 in the front and a Zuperior in the middle and heel. I really didn't like this profile at all. This profile ranked last out of the six. 

Quad 0 = Still not a fan. Feels too small and aggressive for me and my skating style. It's better than a standard 10' but I think I just don't move my feet fast enough for this profile to match my skating style. I ranked this fourth.

Quad 1= Still not a fan. Everything on paper says this should be a profile that I would like but I have never been a fan. I dislike the toe and middle but the heel feels ok. I ranked this fifth. 

Quad 2 = Still my favorite Quad of the bunch. Not nearly as good as the Ellipse 0 and Ellipse 1 but If I had to go with a Quad this would be my choice. Good speed, stability, and glide. You do sacrifice some agility but I will take top-end speed over agility any day. This ranked third. 

Summary:

1: Ellipse 1
2: Ellipse 0
3: Quad 2
4: Quad 0
5: Quad 1
6: Ellipse 2

I wanted to add a slight update to my review. 

Tested the Ellipse 0 in a few more skates and I think I might like it equal or better than the Ellipse 1. I need to do more testing still. but on a 272 holder, the Ellipse 0 and Ellipse 1 both feel really good. 

The Ellipse 2 is still too long for my skate/steel, maybe it would feel good for someone on a 288+ holder/runner.

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On 12/29/2020 at 6:22 PM, SkateWorksPNW said:

I don't have both of the templates in hand otherwise I would scan them and then import the images into CAD so we could visually determine the differences. Maybe @kkskate would be willing to scan them 😉 

I wanted to add a slight update to my review. 

Tested the Ellipse 0 in a few more skates and I think I might like it equal or better than the Ellipse 1. I need to do more testing still. but on a 272 holder, the Ellipse 0 and Ellipse 1 both feel really good. 

The Ellipse 2 is still too long for my skate/steel, maybe it would feel good for someone on a 288+ holder/runner.

I can confirm after another 10+ hours of ice time that I prefer the Ellipse 0 over the Ellipse 1. So my ranking would change to the following:

1: Ellipse 0
2: Ellipse 1
3: Quad 2
4: Quad 0
5: Quad 1
6: Ellipse 2

Note, I am skating on TRUE skates roughly size 7.25 with SHIFT holders sized 272. All of the steel has been profiled with 10mm of pitch. 

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Today I received my new 254mm stainless step steel runners profiled with ellipse zero and sharpened with a 3/4'' hollow for my brandnew 6.5R TF7 skates. The last few days I was skating five times with my new skates on different lakes in my area on more or less bad ice. I was using the stock runners (9'/10' dual radius profile, 95/75FBV). The height of the new runners looked much too low compared to the stock ones. Measured with a caliper the step steel had a height oft 13,8mm in the middle compared to the stock runner with 17,0mm. I found out that the step steel has only a height of 15mm out of the box compared to 18mm of the stock runner. I couldn't wait for the next weekend, so I was out with a headlamp on a small lake in the city this evening on very very bad ice. Compared to the stock runners yesterday, the step steel has more forward pitch, more glide and more steel on the ice and under the heel. The maneuverability and the acceleration were rather difficult to assess under these circumstances and the bite was sufficient. The ellipse zero is flat enough for me, so I wouldn´t try the ellipse one profile at the moment. I would like to compare the different runners directly with one another on standard ice, but if the corona situation continues like now this will take until the next season.

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26 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

Today I received my new 254mm stainless step steel runners profiled with ellipse zero and sharpened with a 3/4'' hollow for my brandnew 6.5R TF7 skates. The last few days I was skating five times with my new skates on different lakes in my area on more or less bad ice. I was using the stock runners (9'/10' dual radius profile, 95/75FBV). The height of the new runners looked much too low compared to the stock ones. Measured with a caliper the step steel had a height oft 13,8mm in the middle compared to the stock runner with 17,0mm. I found out that the step steel has only a height of 15mm out of the box compared to 18mm of the stock runner. I couldn't wait for the next weekend, so I was out with a headlamp on a small lake in the city this evening on very very bad ice. Compared to the stock runners yesterday, the step steel has more forward pitch, more glide and more steel on the ice and under the heel. The maneuverability and the acceleration were rather difficult to assess under these circumstances and the bite was sufficient. The ellipse zero is flat enough for me, so I wouldn´t try the ellipse one profile at the moment. I would like to compare the different runners directly with one another on standard ice, but if the corona situation continues like now this will take until the next season.

The older STEP was very short, as you mentioned, the new steel is much taller but not quite the same quality. TRUE will have genuine DLC coming to market soon enough and it will be tall so profiling it won't remove much material. 

The good news is the holders are taller than other brands so having shorter steel won't matter as much and there is some weight savings as well. 

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On 1/2/2021 at 9:16 PM, SkateWorksPNW said:

I can confirm after another 10+ hours of ice time that I prefer the Ellipse 0 over the Ellipse 1. So my ranking would change to the following:

1: Ellipse 0
2: Ellipse 1
3: Quad 2
4: Quad 0
5: Quad 1
6: Ellipse 2

Note, I am skating on TRUE skates roughly size 7.25 with SHIFT holders sized 272. All of the steel has been profiled with 10mm of pitch. 

Hey @SkateWorksPNW, can you say what it is about the Ellipse 0 that you like more now that you have more time on it? I am one that liked the Quad 1 with 0mm pitch on 272 Mako/Step steel after testing on JR's program but didn't get my other sets re-profiled before the program ended. The Quad 2 was really a toss-up though. I still need to find a good mail-in service to get me all setup and so I may as well go with the "future" while I'm at it. Any ideas who I should work with? 

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3 hours ago, Deke said:

Hey @SkateWorksPNW, can you say what it is about the Ellipse 0 that you like more now that you have more time on it? I am one that liked the Quad 1 with 0mm pitch on 272 Mako/Step steel after testing on JR's program but didn't get my other sets re-profiled before the program ended. The Quad 2 was really a toss-up though. I still need to find a good mail-in service to get me all setup and so I may as well go with the "future" while I'm at it. Any ideas who I should work with? 

The Quad 0/1 always felt very aggressive with transitions between the radii and the Ellipse 0 feels very smooth and seamless since there are not multiple radii and then a small transition area between each radii. 

@kkskate does sharpening and profiling by mail, you might want to use his services: http://kkskate.com/ 

I am wanting to maybe try the Ellipse XS soon as I feel like the Ellipse 0 is still maybe a little long. For me, this is all a little wild because I love the Zuperior M and Quad 2 but the Ellipse 1/2 feels too long and I have less agility with it. I know that there must be more surface contact as well since I have been walking up my hollow slowly as well, starting at 3/4 and now am at 1 1/8 and it still feels like I might end up at 1 1/4 

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I evaluated the Ellipse XS last night and I was impressed.  My skates use a smaller runner 246/254 so keep that in mind.  I used to skate on the Quad 1 though recently converted to the Ellipse 0/1.  I have 2 sets of blades and have been alternating.  Overall my feet felt lighter, more agile, and I was able to turn them over faster.  I didn't not notice the pitch difference between the Ellipse XS and the Ellipse 0/1.  Ellipse XS has slightly less pitch the the 0, 1, and 2.  I did feel a slight loss in stability though the positive gains were enough that I'll probably stick with the XS over the others.

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3 hours ago, kkskate said:

I evaluated the Ellipse XS last night and I was impressed.  My skates use a smaller runner 246/254 so keep that in mind.  I used to skate on the Quad 1 though recently converted to the Ellipse 0/1.  I have 2 sets of blades and have been alternating.  Overall my feet felt lighter, more agile, and I was able to turn them over faster.  I didn't not notice the pitch difference between the Ellipse XS and the Ellipse 0/1.  Ellipse XS has slightly less pitch the the 0, 1, and 2.  I did feel a slight loss in stability though the positive gains were enough that I'll probably stick with the XS over the others.

I am thinking I need to give the Ellipse XS a go. 

The Ellipse 1/2 feels very long and not usable for me on a 272. Great glide but that was about the only positive thing. 

Ellipse 0 feels good but it still takes more effort than other profiles to change direction on the fly and I feel less agile. 

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Today I had the opportunity to compare the Ellipse Zero and the True Stock Profile(9'/10') on good pond ice. I´m skating in True TF7 6.5/254mm. The Ellipse felt more natural and intuitive to me than the Stock Profile. On good ice, the maneuverability of the ellipse profile is sufficient for me, although I could turn on a dime with the Stock Profile. The acceleration of the Stock Profile is better than the Ellipse, but the Ellipse is still ok for me. I think there is no need to talk about the stability advantage of the Ellipse Profile. What surprised me, however, was the clear speed advantage of the Ellipse Profile over the Stock Profile, although the Stock profile has a 95/75 FBV cut and the Stock Profile only has a 3/4'' ROH cut.

When I compare the Ellipse Profile with my memories of my old skates with an 11' Profile at the beginning of the season before the lockdown, the Ellipse seems more agile, stable and faster to me. But this would have to be verified with the same skates and at the same time.

If I had to choose between the profiles, I would definitely use the Ellipse Zero profile.

If I could wish for something, I would give the Ellipse Profile a little bit more maneuverability and acceleration. Could this be the Quad Zero or the Ellipse XS Profile for me?

 

Edited by hockeydad3

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14 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

Today I had the opportunity to compare the Ellipse Zero and the True Stock Profile(9'/10') on good pond ice. I´m skating in True TF7 6.5/254mm. The Ellipse felt more natural and intuitive to me than the Stock Profile. On good ice, the maneuverability of the ellipse profile is sufficient for me, although I could turn on a dime with the Stock Profile. The acceleration of the Stock Profile is better than the Ellipse, but the Ellipse is still ok for me. I think there is no need to talk about the stability advantage of the Ellipse Profile. What surprised me, however, was the clear speed advantage of the Ellipse Profile over the Stock Profile, although the Stock profile has a 95/75 FBV cut and the Stock Profile only has a 3/4 '' ROH cut.

When I compare the Ellipse Profile with my memories of my old skates with an 11' Profile at the beginning of the season before the lockdown, the ellipse seems more agile, stable and faster to me. But this would have to be verified with the same skates and at the same time.

If I had to choose between the profiles, I would definitely use the Ellipse Zero profile.

If I could wish for something, I would give the Ellipse Profile a little bit more maneuverability and acceleration. Could this be the Quad Zero or the Ellipse XS Profile for me?

 

Try the Ellipse XS. I have found the Ellipse 0 is very good for speed and stability but doesn't provide as much agility as I would like. Others testing the Ellipse 0 have shared the same feedback with me as well. All of these players are skating on 263, 272, and 280 steel. 

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On 2/16/2021 at 12:05 AM, PBH said:

Try the Ellipse XS. I have found the Ellipse 0 is very good for speed and stability but doesn't provide as much agility as I would like. Others testing the Ellipse 0 have shared the same feedback with me as well. All of these players are skating on 263, 272, and 280 steel. 

Have you gotten a chance to try the XS, yet? 

I finally got some steel profiled to an Ellipse 0. First off, this is not a natural extension of a Quad 0, so anyone thinking that, it's a mistake. I normally use a Quad 0 with a little extra forward pitch, but I'm going to add a caveat to that in a minute. 

When I got my steel back, the markings were still on the blade. I measured the offset with some digital calipers I have and it was at 15mm. IIRC, it's supposed to be at 20mm. So, for whatever reason, my LHS decided to micromanage my profile, or maybe it was just an honest mistake because they've been slammed.

Which leads me to my caveat: I now can say that I'm not really sure how much forward pitch is actually on my Quad Zero, but I can say it's significantly more forward than my 15mm Ellipse 0. I like being on the balls of my feet, and now I'm more in the middle to behind the middle, almost right on the arches. 

This profile is definitely a little less agile than the Quad. It's almost like a Zup and a Quad hybrid. Whether that's due to being on my mid-foot rather than more forward, or the shape of the steel, or both, it's hard to say. I want to get the proper pitch on there before I do anything else, possibly even a little extra. Otherwise, like @PBH has said, I'll probably drop down to the XS and try that out. 

All in, the profile has potential, but I'm not quite ready to make the switch. More testing is needed, and potentially a size drop. It has advantages over my current setup, but also disadvantages. Ideally, the final result will be something that keeps everything I have on my Quad setup with some added benefits. 

Edited by pgeorgan

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9 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Have you gotten a chance to try the XS, yet? 

I finally got some steel profiled to an Ellipse 0. First off, this is not a natural extension of a Quad 0, so anyone thinking that, it's a mistake. I normally use a Quad 0 with a little extra forward pitch, but I'm going to add a caveat to that in a minute. 

When I got my steel back, the markings were still on the blade. I measured the offset with some digital calipers I have and it was at 15mm. IIRC, it's supposed to be at 20mm. So, for whatever reason, my LHS decided to micromanage my profile, or maybe it was just an honest mistake because they've been slammed.

Which leads me to my caveat: I now can say that I'm not really sure how much forward pitch is actually on my Quad Zero, but I can say it's significantly more forward than my 15mm Ellipse 0. I like being on the balls of my feet, and now I'm more in the middle to behind the middle, almost right on the arches. 

This profile is definitely a little less agile than the Quad. It's almost like a Zup and a Quad hybrid. Whether that's due to being on my mid-foot rather than more forward, or the shape of the steel, or both, it's hard to say. I want to get the proper pitch on there before I do anything else, possibly even a little extra. Otherwise, like @PBH has said, I'll probably drop down to the XS and try that out. 

All in, the profile has potential, but I'm not quite ready to make the switch. More testing is needed, and potentially a size drop. It has advantages over my current setup, but also disadvantages. Ideally, the final result will be something that keeps everything I have on my Quad setup with some added benefits. 

What size steel and what brand? 

I know some shops will alter the pivot point based on the steel size or brand of steel. For example, when I profile Flare I usually dont do as much forward pitch since I want to remove a minimal amount of steel possible. 

Also, I always tell my customers exactly what I am doing when I profile their steel. If they can't come back to me, or decide they want to go elsewhere, I don't want to be the "gatekeeper" to their profile. I know there are some shops that refuse to share details with their customers and while I understand some of that information could be considered proprietary I feel like it's customer lock-in. 

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5 minutes ago, PBH said:

What size steel and what brand? 

I know some shops will alter the pivot point based on the steel size or brand of steel. For example, when I profile Flare I usually dont do as much forward pitch since I want to remove a minimal amount of steel possible. 

Also, I always tell my customers exactly what I am doing when I profile their steel. If they can't come back to me, or decide they want to go elsewhere, I don't want to be the "gatekeeper" to their profile. I know there are some shops that refuse to share details with their customers and while I understand some of that information could be considered proprietary I feel like it's customer lock-in. 

Very true.  Byonic blades have a pitch built into them as well.

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9 hours ago, PBH said:

What size steel and what brand? 

I know some shops will alter the pivot point based on the steel size or brand of steel. For example, when I profile Flare I usually dont do as much forward pitch since I want to remove a minimal amount of steel possible. 

Also, I always tell my customers exactly what I am doing when I profile their steel. If they can't come back to me, or decide they want to go elsewhere, I don't want to be the "gatekeeper" to their profile. I know there are some shops that refuse to share details with their customers and while I understand some of that information could be considered proprietary I feel like it's customer lock-in. 

Interested customers might be wary of it as well. Participation is impossible if the process is opaque. It's not a very sympathetic view of others.

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14 hours ago, PBH said:

What size steel and what brand? 

254 Vapor 2x Pro with Step Black. Tbh, I had time to skate side by side with my usual Quad 0 and Ellipse 0 and I really didn't like it. They are nothing alike. I'll try the XS since it's already paid for, but not holding my breath. The Ellipse 0 was like skating on skis for me. Very stable, yes, but very immobile and awkward for me to turn with.

14 hours ago, PBH said:

Also, I always tell my customers exactly what I am doing when I profile their steel. If they can't come back to me, or decide they want to go elsewhere, I don't want to be the "gatekeeper" to their profile. I know there are some shops that refuse to share details with their customers and while I understand some of that information could be considered proprietary I feel like it's customer lock-in. 

I did a little more research, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 15mm pivot point mark was to account for the prior ProSharp profile I had on there. Which explains why I didn't like that profile either, hence why I had the steel sitting around, not in use. 

I'll ask him directly, next visit. We'll see what he says.

Edited by pgeorgan

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3 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

254 Vapor 2x Pro with Step Black. Tbh, I had time to skate side by side with my usual Quad 0 and Ellipse 0 and I really didn't like it. They are nothing alike. I'll try the XS since it's already paid for, but not holding my breath. The Ellipse 0 was like skating on skis for me. Very stable, yes, but very immobile and awkward for me to turn with.

I did a little more research, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 15mm pivot point mark was to account for the prior ProSharp profile I had on there. Which explains why I didn't like that profile either, hence why I had the steel sitting around, not in use. 

I'll ask him directly, next visit. We'll see what he says.

If you had a previous profile done and the pivot point was not altered, then it would be 20mm back of center. 

When they reprofile the steel to an Ellipse the steel would be positioned in the sled holder based on that previously set pivot point. Otherwise, you would be 40mm back of center.

I totally understand how you feel about the Ellipse vs the Quad 0 in regards to mobility. In my testing, I think the Ellipse XS would be significantly closer to your feeling of a Quad 0 as compared to the Ellipse 0. You can put both templates on a lightbox and see how they are the same yet different, specifically in the front 1/3 of the profile. 

I am not entirely sure why the Ellipse was made with a much less aggressive front 1/3 compared to Quad or Zuperior. The Ellipse doesn't activate muscle groups that next-generation players are using (McDavid, MacKinnon, Bedard, etc) and results in much longer strides. For some older players, this might feel more comfortable but advanced younger players aren't coached to skate in the same way and I think the Ellipse might actually be bad for them. 

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31 minutes ago, PBH said:

If you had a previous profile done and the pivot point was not altered, then it would be 20mm back of center. 

When they reprofile the steel to an Ellipse the steel would be positioned in the sled holder based on that previously set pivot point. Otherwise, you would be 40mm back of center.

I totally understand how you feel about the Ellipse vs the Quad 0 in regards to mobility. In my testing, I think the Ellipse XS would be significantly closer to your feeling of a Quad 0 as compared to the Ellipse 0. You can put both templates on a lightbox and see how they are the same yet different, specifically in the front 1/3 of the profile. 

I am not entirely sure why the Ellipse was made with a much less aggressive front 1/3 compared to Quad or Zuperior. The Ellipse doesn't activate muscle groups that next-generation players are using (McDavid, MacKinnon, Bedard, etc) and results in much longer strides. For some older players, this might feel more comfortable but advanced younger players aren't coached to skate in the same way and I think the Ellipse might actually be bad for them. 

It's possible they're just more in line with the size recommendations.  For example size 254 is a size 5-6 skate.  Based on the Quad recommendations you should go with the Quad XS though many skaters with this size were on a Quad 0 or Quad 1.  Since the Ellipse profiles don't have any real specifications to examine it's possible the (Ellipse) profiles size recommendations are more accurate.

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2 hours ago, PBH said:

If you had a previous profile done and the pivot point was not altered, then it would be 20mm back of center. 

When they reprofile the steel to an Ellipse the steel would be positioned in the sled holder based on that previously set pivot point. Otherwise, you would be 40mm back of center.

I totally understand how you feel about the Ellipse vs the Quad 0 in regards to mobility. In my testing, I think the Ellipse XS would be significantly closer to your feeling of a Quad 0 as compared to the Ellipse 0. You can put both templates on a lightbox and see how they are the same yet different, specifically in the front 1/3 of the profile. 

I am not entirely sure why the Ellipse was made with a much less aggressive front 1/3 compared to Quad or Zuperior. The Ellipse doesn't activate muscle groups that next-generation players are using (McDavid, MacKinnon, Bedard, etc) and results in much longer strides. For some older players, this might feel more comfortable but advanced younger players aren't coached to skate in the same way and I think the Ellipse might actually be bad for them. 

Do McDavid and MacKinnon have short strides? What muscle groups are they activating? Are they skating differently than Niedermayer or Gartner did? Curious if there are any videos or descriptive posts you can point to for illuminating this.

Edited by flip12

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