Peewee steel - make sense to go Step? Or is that overkill?

[krisdrum 233]

Just picked up some new wheels for my rising Peewee Minor.  Two skates in and he is loving the Ribcor 78K - size 3.5 after being in Vapors the last 2-3 seasons and Supremes most of his career before that. 

Being new to the CCM skate family, the Step steel option has me curious if it is worth it.  The added height, ease of sharpening and longer lasting edge are all appealing with the Step.  They seem to be the gold standard in steel everyone is trying to catch.  My son's agility and edgework are a huge part of his game, so if there is a legitimate advantage here, I want to consider it.

The last few years he has been outgrowing his skates in about a year and jumping up a full size when he does.  That would put him in the next bigger runner size and the steel we buy now would not be compatible.  So, we'll be lucky to get 12 months out of whatever steel he has, with them being sharpened every week or two.  We always carry a second set of steel in case he damages one set or in case we don't have a chance to sharpen prior to traveling, so switching to Step (or anything besides the standard CCM Speedblade XS stainless that came with his boots) would mean 2 new pairs of steel. 

Are the Step (or anything else) really that much better than the standard steel to warrant the added investment beyond the $70 I'll need to drop to get him a second set of standard stainless?

[JV23 12]

OMG yes, or at least in my view.  Same situation - I have a Minor Peewee player (U12 as we now call them ...I think) and he's in Tack 9380's now.  Smaller feet, size 1 and just moving into the 1.5.  He skated once in the black XS steel, and then switched over to Step and a set of Bladetech and refuses to use the CCM steel now.   CCM steel is notoriously bad, and the Stainless XS is the worst of the bunch.   World of difference with edge retention, ability to dig in when needed and in fact, with the DLC blades, I could go about 1/8 shallower with the hollow without him complaining, so better glide and speed on the straights.  All steel was profiled to Quad 3XS, so that wasn't a mitigating factor.  

If you're conscious of cost, you could try to keep the CCM steel in play for practices and switch for game time, but the height difference may throw him/her off, but in an emergency, better than nothing.

 

[krisdrum 233]

Wow @JV23 that is a pretty resounding opinion.  I wasn't planning to go coated blade, as I'd be spending more on steel than I did on the skates themselves.  I'm looking to compare stainless to stainless here.  And I don't think just 1 pair of Step or Bladetech is a feasible option due to the height difference.  I either need to go all in and commit or not.  He is sensitive enough to other changes that I'm sure blade height will definitely be a factor. 

Curious what others think. 

[JV23 12]

Even a non-coated Step, Bladetech or Tydan would be a much better play than the original CCM steel, if you're looking apples to apples.

[stick9 890]

So these U-14 players not only know the difference but can feel a difference as well? Coming from someone who has a 12 year old, I find that extremely hard to believe.

Yes, ccm steel is bad but going to Step for players that old is way overkill IMO. 

[boo10 323]

CCM steel isn't as bad as people on this board make it out to be, (it's certainly not good either).  It's very comparable to LS1 steel.  Sure, someone who has to sharpen skates is going to recommend STEP because it is significantly better quality, but more importantly it is much easier to sharpen to a good finish.

If the kid is happy with the stock steel and you're not having to sharpen way too frequently, then leave it be.

[krisdrum 233]

Ok, good input, I appreciate the different perspectives.  @stick9 that was my initial thought as well, can the difference be that significant? 

So maybe a bit more context.  He's been on LS2 steel for the last several years.  With him on the ice 4-6 hours a week on average, I was sharpening his steel every 2 weeks or so (about every 10 hours of skating), assuming he didn't step on anything in the rink or his hard blade covers (thanks COVID) didn't come off when he was walking to or from the car.  That frequency usually kept the "my steel is shot can you sharpen for me" comments to a minimum.

I sharpen his blades on a ProSharp Home my brother-in-law has and hone/stone them myself.  When I say he is sensitive to other changes, he can tell when I don't hone enough (maybe everyone can, I'm not experienced enough as a home sharpener skating on my own work to assess, to me that seems pretty sensitive).  If that is a normal reaction by most experienced skaters, then I just need to refine my honing game.    

How will the standard CCM steel match up to what I have been doing for him over the last several seasons?  Will I have to sharpen at the same frequency?  Less?  More?

Again, I know I am in for at least $70 for the second set of steel.  I have no problem dropping the extra coin, if the performance improvement is there...  He works hard on his skating so if there is an advantage to upgrading the steel, I feel like I have to consider it.  If there isn't good ROI on the upgrade, I'm happy to stick with the standard steel.   

[SirJW 207]

Try sideline swap?

[helmet91 15]

A great question...  I'm in the same predicament albeit with my U13 twins (that's European for pee-wee LOL).  They're each getting a pair of Supreme 2S (big sale at IW) for their b-day next month and I'm contemplating getting another set of steel as a backup/upgrade.  The new pair comes with LS3; they had been on LS2 with LS1 backups in their previous Nexus skate.  Back when we were in the US they were playing 3-5 games a weekend depending on if it was regular season games or a tournament/showcase.  I never wanted to trust the random pro-shop at the random rink we were at so the backup set was a godsend a handful of times.  We have a Sparx machine, but  it's the original so it's way too big to travel with.

I think this time around the LS3 should be sufficient(?)... and we're in the Netherlands now.  Hockey is quite a bit different - assuming there's a season this fall/winter they only play one game a weekend and there don't seem to be any sorts of tournaments during the season.

/end stream of consciousness rambling

Edited June 4, 2021 by helmet91

[krisdrum 233]

11 hours ago, SirJW said:

Try sideline swap?

I took a look.  Save about $25 a pair if I decide to grab them. 

[JV23 12]

All of it comes down to how far you want to go.  It’s a much bigger lift to go premium steel on once per week skating.   I firmly believe that a peewee, at least at a higher rep level, can tell the difference - though articulating it is a challenge. They’ve been skating long enough (7-9 years), and let’s face it, the kids today can execute skills that we (the older generation) weren’t even aware of when we were their age.  You definitely don’t need it to play well, but will the better edges allow you to execute skating skills with better confidence, probably.

 

pros of premium steel 
added height - last longer, better angle on sharp turns without bottoming out

edge retention - less dings, dents, lost edges from board battles and other stuff

less sharpening required

 

Cons

cost, especially with growing feet

 

Again, your mileage may vary.  Maybe my experience was excessively coloured by the steel used in youth skates, but I didn’t need a micrometer to notice an improvement.

[mojo122 535]

Better steel equates to better sharpening, edge retention, and glide.  Worth it IMO.

[koresh38 10]

I am a coach. Have 4 pairs of blades. Ls4, Stepsteel stainless and Black stepsteel, fairblades too. Also do sharpening in my club and my boy who is 13.  My advise would be unless you need a spare set of blades do not bother. From my personal experience you do can tell the difference but it is not relevant.  The more important is to have a right profile and good quality sharpening.  

[krisdrum 233]

Bumping this back to the top.  Now a month in with the standard CCM stainless and it has been a very different experience compared to the LS2 steel he was on.  3 times I've gotten the dreaded "my blades are shot" comment.  And he is only skating 2 maybe 3 times a week, instead of the usual 5-6 or more during the season.  I'm roughly getting 6 hours of ice time out of a sharpening before some sort of "failure".  I was easily getting 10-15 hours out of the Bauers.  Each time I've inspected and seen nicks and rolled edges and other damage I rarely saw with the LS2.  When I sharpen them, they clean up nicely, but at this rate I'll have to sharpen at least twice as often as I was previously.  Is that typical for CCM compared to other stock steel?

[boo10 323]

4 hours ago, krisdrum said:

Bumping this back to the top.  Now a month in with the standard CCM stainless and it has been a very different experience compared to the LS2 steel he was on.  3 times I've gotten the dreaded "my blades are shot" comment.  And he is only skating 2 maybe 3 times a week, instead of the usual 5-6 or more during the season.  I'm roughly getting 6 hours of ice time out of a sharpening before some sort of "failure".  I was easily getting 10-15 hours out of the Bauers.  Each time I've inspected and seen nicks and rolled edges and other damage I rarely saw with the LS2.  When I sharpen them, they clean up nicely, but at this rate I'll have to sharpen at least twice as often as I was previously.  Is that typical for CCM compared to other stock steel?

Everyone is different, but I wouldn't say your experience is unusual.  LS2 is a better quality steel than CCM stock, which I would say is similar in quality to LS1/Bauer Stainless.

I can easily get 30+ hours on the CCM stock steel, but I skate on 5/8 or 3/4 and don't need a perfect edge. If someone gets used to pristine steel, expect to sharpen more often, even with the best quality steel.

[krisdrum 233]

13 minutes ago, boo10 said:

Everyone is different, but I wouldn't say your experience is unusual.  LS2 is a better quality steel than CCM stock, which I would say is similar in quality to LS1/Bauer Stainless.

I can easily get 30+ hours on the CCM stock steel, but I skate on 5/8 or 3/4 and don't need a perfect edge. If someone gets used to pristine steel, expect to sharpen more often, even with the best quality steel.

Thanks.  He is on a pretty shallow hollow (5/8), so your 30+ hours definitely does not mirror my experience so far. 

[boo10 323]

9 minutes ago, krisdrum said:

Thanks.  He is on a pretty shallow hollow (5/8), so your 30+ hours definitely does not mirror my experience so far. 

I wouldn't expect my experience to mirror any normal person.  I can skate on rusty butter knives! 🤣

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

IMHO, if cost is no object, obviously go with the better steel.  If cost is a factor; if you pay to have them sharpened, get the better steel cause it will allow you go longer between sharpening (provided you don't suffer any steel trauma).  If you sharpen yourself, get the cheaper steel.

[krisdrum 233]

58 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

IMHO, if cost is no object, obviously go with the better steel.  If cost is a factor; if you pay to have them sharpened, get the better steel cause it will allow you go longer between sharpening (provided you don't suffer any steel trauma).  If you sharpen yourself, get the cheaper steel.

I have access to a ProSharp home machine at a family member's place just down the street.  We have our own wheel, so the cost of sharpening is not really a factor.  I'm more concerned with needing to stay on top of sharpening, especially as his schedule gets busy as we move into the season and we are juggling all our other commitments.  I was able to easily go 2 weeks between sharpenings previously.  Based on what I am seeing I will need to make sure I make a trip to their house weekly to keep both sets of steel in good condition. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 5/6/2021 at 8:21 AM, krisdrum said:

Just picked up some new wheels for my rising Peewee Minor.  Two skates in and he is loving the Ribcor 78K - size 3.5 after being in Vapors the last 2-3 seasons and Supremes most of his career before that. 

Being new to the CCM skate family, the Step steel option has me curious if it is worth it.  The added height, ease of sharpening and longer lasting edge are all appealing with the Step.  They seem to be the gold standard in steel everyone is trying to catch.  My son's agility and edgework are a huge part of his game, so if there is a legitimate advantage here, I want to consider it.

The last few years he has been outgrowing his skates in about a year and jumping up a full size when he does.  That would put him in the next bigger runner size and the steel we buy now would not be compatible.  So, we'll be lucky to get 12 months out of whatever steel he has, with them being sharpened every week or two.  We always carry a second set of steel in case he damages one set or in case we don't have a chance to sharpen prior to traveling, so switching to Step (or anything besides the standard CCM Speedblade XS stainless that came with his boots) would mean 2 new pairs of steel. 

Are the Step (or anything else) really that much better than the standard steel to warrant the added investment beyond the $70 I'll need to drop to get him a second set of standard stainless?

As someone that is both a player and also own a store I will provide you my perspective.

As a store owner: I feel investing in steel at his age comes with limited returns. He wont see much performance gain out of his steel unless he is skating 5 days week at a AA/AAA level. This is especially true if you have access to sharpen them with relative ease. Most likely he will likely grow out of those skates and therefore wont be able to use that steel with his new skates due to size differences. 3.5 skates use a different size steel than 4.0/4.5 which he will likely be using before end of the year.  

As a player: There is no replacement for good steel and someone who knows how to do a good sharpening. 

[krisdrum 233]

32 minutes ago, PBH said:

As someone that is both a player and also own a store I will provide you my perspective.

As a store owner: I feel investing in steel at his age comes with limited returns. He wont see much performance gain out of his steel unless he is skating 5 days week at a AA/AAA level. This is especially true if you have access to sharpen them with relative ease. Most likely he will likely grow out of those skates and therefore wont be able to use that steel with his new skates due to size differences. 3.5 skates use a different size steel than 4.0/4.5 which he will likely be using before end of the year.  

As a player: There is no replacement for good steel and someone who knows how to do a good sharpening. 

Seems I have to pull the trigger then.  LOL.  During the season he is on the ice at least 5 days a week, most weeks more depending on game schedule.  AAA player.  Really the only place I am hesitating is the cost due to where he is at in his growth and like you said, the likelihood he will not make it through the season without outgrowing the skates.  But based on the last month with the stock steel, I think it is a clear choice, I have to spend the money. 

[Vet88 674]

15 minutes ago, krisdrum said:

But based on the last month with the stock steel, I think it is a clear choice, I have to spend the money. 

If you had everything at home AND the time to deal with all the issues that come with sub par equipment, then you stick with the status quo. But having put my 2 kids and myself thru the development years of training/games for ice and inline (often both on same days) every day of the week - dealing with boot pain, crappy bearings, chunking wheels and failed edges was such a huge pita. Looking back, my wallet definitely said wtf at the time but once fitted I never regretted the decision to buy good quality for them. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, Vet88 said:

If you had everything at home AND the time to deal with all the issues that come with sub par equipment, then you stick with the status quo. But having put my 2 kids and myself thru the development years of training/games for ice and inline (often both on same days) every day of the week - dealing with boot pain, crappy bearings, chunking wheels and failed edges was such a huge pita. Looking back, my wallet definitely said wtf at the time but once fitted I never regretted the decision to buy good quality for them. 

No replacement for a quality product. 🙂 

[helmet91 15]

My boys are finally back on the ice...  They've skated the last two weekends with Paul Vincent Jr (you Boston types probably know his dad) here in the Netherlands.  The second session they were out on their freshly baked and sharpened new/old-stock Supreme 2S skates (HAPPY BIRTHDAY!).  The LS3 runners seem really nice.  They sharpened quite well on our Sparx (5/8 Fire) and held up after the first usage.  I'll keep an eye on my sharpening log to see how long they last, but thus far I'm pretty happy with the upgrade.  The boys love their new wheels, they had no complaints at all.  What a win for dad!  LOL