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tcc

Feedback on custom skates

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SP 2 are supposedly far more durable than the original. I just tried them out last week but they took up too much volume in my True skates so I had to go back to the stock footbeds.

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13 hours ago, tcc said:

So I've had just over a handful of skates in the 2s Pros and have tweeked the right boot (my problem right foot, navicular bone) a few times but I still feel like I'm not getting a solid heel lock.  It doesn't slip or anything but it just doesn't feel supported and feels a bit loose. I'm not sure if I have a slightly narrower heel/ankle but I'm going to try on a stable 26 sock I have to see if that works. 

If not I really want to see if there is a difference with the speed plate 2.0 (currently have superfeet carbon). To just see if there is a difference would I need to rebake the skates or can I get away with not doing that? 

You should rebake them. 

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4 hours ago, CigarScott said:

SP 2 are supposedly far more durable than the original. I just tried them out last week but they took up too much volume in my True skates so I had to go back to the stock footbeds.

Wow, too much volume? They are still thinner than any other insole I have seen. 

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On 9/22/2018 at 5:24 PM, mojo122 said:

You can punch out just about any part of the boot if you have the right tools.  @customskateworks even designed a boot punch that will work on toe caps too.

Just cause you can doesn't mean you should.... 

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17 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Wow, too much volume? They are still thinner than any other insole I have seen. 

They feel thicker than the Super Feet that I had in my old skates. I don't know what it is but my left pinky toe was digging into the skate with the SP2 in them which I've never had this issue prior. I took them out and put the stock beds in and the pain was gone. My only theory that I can come up with is that the side of the SP2 that sticks up on the arch side of the foot is forcing my foot to the left which is causing my pinky toe to dig into the skate.

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Is there any advantage to the custom skates over stock S2 Pro for someone who fits stock mid range supremes well? 

As an aside, my old style speed plates have cracked after a couple of months. That’s not good. 

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Since almost everyone has one foot that is bigger than the other you'll get a better fit which should result in better performance.  The overall goal to maximizing any skate's performance is to minimize negative space.  That's the benefit to going custom.  In addition there are other options over retail if one so chooses to opt for them.

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 Hey Guys need to get insight on the issue i'm having on my "new" 2s Pros.  After skating about a dozen times I don't get as tight/snug fit on my right skate as I do on my left.  I need to re-tighten it most of the time after a few minutes of skating.  Even after that it still feels loose.  I've tried different methods to remedy this (heating certain areas of the boot and then tightening the laces or using the clamp method ala TRUE) but it still feels loose.  I'm coming to think that these methods should work but because of a navicular bone I have on the inside of my foot and another one just above on the top of my foot it is preventing the boot to form tightly around my whole foot (not an issue with my left foot) causing some negative space to remain.

As a whole, the skate/boot is snug but not as snug as I would like it to be like my left skate.

I was thinking of adding some thin silicone or foam padding to the areas of my right foot and then put on my sock to alleviate some of the negative space (good/bad idea)??

Any other suggestions??

tia

Edited by tcc

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I have decided to look at custom skates again.  I have 2015 1X custom skates (C/AA width), but I want a bit better heel lock.

A couple of questions for some of the guys who have tried the different brands of skates... Do the Bauer 1X / 2S Pro, CCM AS1 / FT1, or Trues have the best heat mold properties?  Have any of these had better heel lock than the others for anyone who has tried the different ones?  Is there any real difference between CCM, Bauer or True in their custom process (do they all use a 3D print of your foot or pre-made lasts that are close)?  Is the True really that much more heavy than the others (or is it mostly attributable to the steel)?

Thanks for your help.

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On 10/29/2018 at 5:39 AM, tcc said:

 Hey Guys need to get insight on the issue i'm having on my "new" 2s Pros.  After skating about a dozen times I don't get as tight/snug fit on my right skate as I do on my left.  I need to re-tighten it most of the time after a few minutes of skating.  Even after that it still feels loose.  I've tried different methods to remedy this (heating certain areas of the boot and then tightening the laces or using the clamp method ala TRUE) but it still feels loose.  I'm coming to think that these methods should work but because of a navicular bone I have on the inside of my foot and another one just above on the top of my foot it is preventing the boot to form tightly around my whole foot (not an issue with my left foot) causing some negative space to remain.

As a whole, the skate/boot is snug but not as snug as I would like it to be like my left skate.

I was thinking of adding some thin silicone or foam padding to the areas of my right foot and then put on my sock to alleviate some of the negative space (good/bad idea)??

Any other suggestions??

tia

If you want to get rid of the negative space in a particular area do this. Heat up the inside rear quarter (the ankle area) with a heat gun, put the boot on and do it up. Lie on the floor with the heated side facing upwards, get someone to stand on the heated part in bare feet or with socks on, their weight will mold the heated part of boot to the shape of your foot. Ideally have them stand on your boot for about 5 minutes until the reshape has set with the materials cooling. Then skate in them and see how the fit is. Repeat on the outside if the fit still doesn't feel right. I always do the inside first because, in 99% of all the boots I have done, this is the area that opens up first. With this method you can choose to spot heat specific areas (eg just do under the ankle bone) and progressively work around the boot with further spot heats as needed or do the whole inside rear quarter at the same time, it's up to you. 

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16 hours ago, Vet88 said:

If you want to get rid of the negative space in a particular area do this. Heat up the inside rear quarter (the ankle area) with a heat gun, put the boot on and do it up. Lie on the floor with the heated side facing upwards, get someone to stand on the heated part in bare feet or with socks on, their weight will mold the heated part of boot to the shape of your foot. Ideally have them stand on your boot for about 5 minutes until the reshape has set with the materials cooling. Then skate in them and see how the fit is. Repeat on the outside if the fit still doesn't feel right. I always do the inside first because, in 99% of all the boots I have done, this is the area that opens up first. With this method you can choose to spot heat specific areas (eg just do under the ankle bone) and progressively work around the boot with further spot heats as needed or do the whole inside rear quarter at the same time, it's up to you. 

Thanks Vet88 I’ll see if my petite wife would help stand on it..lol :)

Would your method work better than True’s with using a ratcheting clamp?

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I have found it works better than clamping, this is because the pliable foot on top forms the heated part of the boot to ALL the spaces of the foot whereas the clamp just locks it to the area it's clamping on. 

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20 hours ago, Hack_11 said:

I have decided to look at custom skates again.  I have 2015 1X custom skates (C/AA width), but I want a bit better heel lock.

A couple of questions for some of the guys who have tried the different brands of skates... Do the Bauer 1X / 2S Pro, CCM AS1 / FT1, or Trues have the best heat mold properties?  Have any of these had better heel lock than the others for anyone who has tried the different ones?  Is there any real difference between CCM, Bauer or True in their custom process (do they all use a 3D print of your foot or pre-made lasts that are close)?  Is the True really that much more heavy than the others (or is it mostly attributable to the steel)?

Thanks for your help.

According to various online sources, it would appear that CCM and Bauer use a machine to make a custom mould of each foot. CCM openly state that a stock boot (or one with custom options) is then formed using heat and pressure around each mould. I believe Bauer do the same, thus the custom options are tongue, blades and lacing eyelets, other parts of the boot are stock. Many people state that True make a proper fully custom skate from your foot measurements, but they form it around the closest existing mould that they have, of which there are supposedly 350. However, this is speculative and may be incorrect. 

I have duck feet, which are shallow, and not particularly wide, which might suggest Vapor, but the widest part is at the end, just like a duck’s foot, which does not map to Vapor as that assumes a narrowish foot end. I guess Bauer believe that by choosing the boot with the correct volume, the pressure moulding will create a good fit. I believe that the toe cap is and off the shelf and not heat formable, which could be an issue for people like me. I guess even though this process is called custom, in reality it is not a proper custom as per custom made shoes, but how good it is remains to be seen.

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16 hours ago, Leif said:

According to various online sources, it would appear that CCM and Bauer use a machine to make a custom mould of each foot. CCM openly state that a stock boot (or one with custom options) is then formed using heat and pressure around each mould. I believe Bauer do the same, thus the custom options are tongue, blades and lacing eyelets, other parts of the boot are stock. Many people state that True make a proper fully custom skate from your foot measurements, but they form it around the closest existing mould that they have, of which there are supposedly 350. However, this is speculative and may be incorrect. 

I have duck feet, which are shallow, and not particularly wide, which might suggest Vapor, but the widest part is at the end, just like a duck’s foot, which does not map to Vapor as that assumes a narrowish foot end. I guess Bauer believe that by choosing the boot with the correct volume, the pressure moulding will create a good fit. I believe that the toe cap is and off the shelf and not heat formable, which could be an issue for people like me. I guess even though this process is called custom, in reality it is not a proper custom as per custom made shoes, but how good it is remains to be seen.

You're close 

Bauer:
Fully custom skate based off of a 3D print of your foot according to @JDub here on page 7. Bauer just isn't offering as many options to the general public as they do for their pros which makes sense

 

 

@JR Boucicaut also had some insight pre 3D scan here on bauer skates 

CCM:
Two options.  Option 1 CCM prints out a 3D print of your foot and takes a retail skate and bakes it with the mold and forms it that way.  Option two a fully custom skate based off of your 3D foot scan. This is according to @JR Boucicaut here on page 3

 

 

True:
Takes a 3D scan of your foot and bases the construction off of a 3D render and a 3D print of a foot similar to yours. I could not find any reliable sources detailing the process of manufacturing True custom skates.  Although on page 101 @Zac911 stated many times that they were custom made for your feet.

 

Hopefully, I have provided correct information for all three skate manufacturers.

Edited by strosedefence34
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1 hour ago, strosedefence34 said:

You're close 

Bauer:
Fully custom skate based off of a 3D print of your foot according to @JDub here on page 7. Bauer just isn't offering as many options to the general public as they do for their pros which makes sense

I don't think we said anything different, except that for the Bauer you use the term 'fully custom skate' without clarifying what that means. Having seen a YouTube video of Bauer custom skates being made, my understanding is that they take mostly off the shelf components (quarter package, sole, toe cap etc), throw in a few customisations (tongue etc), build the skate and then use heat and pressure to mould that 'almost stock' skate to a mould of your foot. This seems like a rather clever approach but perhaps not quite as good as made to measure if your foot diverges markedly from a stock skate. Of course I may be mistaken, and it might indeed be a made to measure skate with unique toecap etc, in which case hopefully someone such as JDub will chime in and correct me. 

As an aside, the Bauer 3D scan is fascinating. I never until then realised what shape feet I have, and how they related to the three Bauer skate models, and that my feet do not properly conform to any model. 

Edit: Ah okay just read the comment by @JR Boucicaut which suggests that Bauer custom is indeed made to measure. That is good news. 

Edited by Leif
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3 hours ago, Leif said:

I don't think we said anything different, except that for the Bauer you use the term 'fully custom skate' without clarifying what that means. Having seen a YouTube video of Bauer custom skates being made, my understanding is that they take mostly off the shelf components (quarter package, sole, toe cap etc), throw in a few customisations (tongue etc), build the skate and then use heat and pressure to mould that 'almost stock' skate to a mould of your foot. This seems like a rather clever approach but perhaps not quite as good as made to measure if your foot diverges markedly from a stock skate. Of course I may be mistaken, and it might indeed be a made to measure skate with unique toecap etc, in which case hopefully someone such as JDub will chime in and correct me. 

As an aside, the Bauer 3D scan is fascinating. I never until then realised what shape feet I have, and how they related to the three Bauer skate models, and that my feet do not properly conform to any model. 

From my understanding, Bauer themselves will reference the scan and make adjustments to the skates as needed such as increased quarters or oversized toe caps.  Bauer is no longer leaving this up to the fitter and they would be the ones to make the call.  The fitter can add notes that need to be addressed in the scan for Bauer.  I do believe Bauer is also able to make this call while looking at the scans if it is missed by the fitter.  I could be not understanding this correctly either, but this is what I have read before.  As you said they do however allow the customer to pick from a limited selection of liners and tongues.   As someone who doesn't fit in any model that is where stay in the family they recommend from.  They would make a custom to your foot skate out of that family.  Again this is all the pieces I have pieced together from the various threads I have read on custom skates.  It would be great if someone from Bauer, CCM and True could come on here and clear everything up for us in terms of the process of manufacturing the custom skates and in particular the what if I don't fit in any family of Bauer or CCM.  That's also why I tagged some of the people I did in hopes to get some definite answers.

Edited by strosedefence34
correcting incorrect information as per JR
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3 hours ago, strosedefence34 said:

From my understanding, Bauer themselves will reference the scan and make adjustments to the skates as needed such as increased quarters or oversized toe caps.  Bauer is no longer leaving this up to the fitter and they would be the ones to make the call.  I could be not understanding this correctly either, but this is what I have read before.  As you said they do however allow the customer to pick from a limited selection of liners and tongues.   As someone who doesn't fit in any model that is where stay in the family they recommend from.  They would make a custom to your foot skate out of that family.  Again this is all the pieces I have pieced together from the various threads I have read on custom skates.  It would be great if someone from Bauer, CCM and True could come on here and clear everything up for us in terms of the process of manufacturing the custom skates and in particular the what if I don't fit in any family of Bauer or CCM.  That's also why I tagged some of the people I did in hopes to get some definite answers.

As I had stated previously; the fitter can use the notes section in the scan to address what they need to.  

 

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I picked up my Bauer custom 2s Pro today, and they are definitely a snug fit. I can see where the forefoot broadens out for my small toes. The fit and finish is first rate. The LHS reckon I should be okay using them at a casual stick n puck session followed by a scrimmage tomorrow rather than getting used to them in a public session. 

My feet are fairly ordinary - shallow but broad forefoot, narrow shallow heel, thin ankle - and the skates do feel like exo skeletons consistent with a custom fit, snug but not tight. 

I’m in England and the time between the shop sending the order and receiving them was three weeks and one day. 

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38 minutes ago, Leif said:

I picked up my Bauer custom 2s Pro today, and they are definitely a snug fit. I can see where the forefoot broadens out for my small toes. The fit and finish is first rate. The LHS reckon I should be okay using them at a casual stick n puck session followed by a scrimmage tomorrow rather than getting used to them in a public session. 

My feet are fairly ordinary - shallow but broad forefoot, narrow shallow heel, thin ankle - and the skates do feel like exo skeletons consistent with a custom fit, snug but not tight. 

I’m in England and the time between the shop sending the order and receiving them was three weeks and one day. 

Just out of curiosity what skates were you in prior to the customs 2spros? Did you use the 3d scanner and go through the my Bauer process? If you did, did you stay in the same family or did you say scan for a vapor but went with supreme instead? 

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My current/old skates are Bauer Supreme S160 7EE which were the best fit of the three models, didn’t use a scanner. This time round the scanner said stock Vapor 7EE was best but Supreme 7EE okay too. Custom was 6.5EE and 6.75EE Vapor. I tried on 6.5EE Vapor but toes felt cramped. Would custom Vapor have been as good or better? No idea, but Supreme is fine too. 

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32 minutes ago, Leif said:

My current/old skates are Bauer Supreme S160 7EE which were the best fit of the three models, didn’t use a scanner. This time round the scanner said stock Vapor 7EE was best but Supreme 7EE okay too. Custom was 6.5EE and 6.75EE Vapor. I tried on 6.5EE Vapor but toes felt cramped. Would custom Vapor have been as good or better? No idea, but Supreme is fine too. 

Honestly no clue if custom vapor would have been fine. I myself have been wearing 8D supremes for the last few years. I scanned an 8.5D vapor but I know 8.5 is too long. I barely pass the pencil test in supremes. I tried on vapors and the heel is fine but the forefoot is a little tight I didn’t have a pencil to test the depth. I only put the display model on for a minute so I wouldn’t say I really tried them on. I’m not in the market for skates I was just wondering about the custom Bauer process out of my own curiosity. 

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Vapor failed the pencil test, but Bauer say that is only a guide, the scanner is more accurate. What did concern me was the toes in Vapors. I'm not sure what Bauer do for the toe box, whether they use a given toe box for a given model and size, or if they select according to the scan. Certainly these feel a tad longer than the stock skates I tried on, so I suspect the toe box is chosen to suit the scan. 

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4 hours ago, Leif said:

Vapor failed the pencil test, but Bauer say that is only a guide, the scanner is more accurate. What did concern me was the toes in Vapors. I'm not sure what Bauer do for the toe box, whether they use a given toe box for a given model and size, or if they select according to the scan. Certainly these feel a tad longer than the stock skates I tried on, so I suspect the toe box is chosen to suit the scan. 

Yeah I’m sure if I went with custom vapors the depth and width issues would be adjusted. I believe that the first scan for me was wrong and I haven’t gone back to be rescanned. Mostly because I am not in the market for new skates. Maybe I’m like you and could fit into both skates. I get okay heel lock in my retail supremes and only have one hotspot that just developed within the last year right on both of my big toes where the toe cap meets the boot. I wear a gel pad to fix that. 

Glad to hear you like your skates! Keep us updated after you skate in them. 

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