Vet88

And I don't disagree with you, I think they have created a very good product that fills a niche at the bottom to good end of the sharpening spectrum and the "I just want to sharpen skates at home" market. IMHO there are a lot of rinks and shops out there that could benefit from having one of these, by removing the barely trained operator from the equation they could give consistent results. I've had these kinds of people sharpen and butcher my blades so I know exactly what you are talking about. However I was lucky enough to meet one the better sharpeners in the business and have spent the last few years learning from him, it is worth it when you find a good sharpener but that hunt can be a difficult and frustrating process.

Yep, there ain't no machine that will tell you the stone doesn't sound right as the blade runs over it or the pass just doesn't feel right. A machine solution will give you a sharpen but a good experienced operator will give you a great sharpen and there is night and day difference between the 2.

Really? And here you are squeezing the sides in to a visible dent to try and get a better fit? Your a consumer dealing with one or a couple of experiences with a graf skate, if it works for you then well done and of course you may have nothing negative to say about it. That is your experience. Yet there are a number of comments here from members that deal with skates at the coal face, ie those customers who come back with QC problems. And of those customers, my experience was that there were disproportionately more Graf customers than any other skate brand. Note that I'm still not saying the skate is rubbish, when the issues were put right customers loved the skate but dealing with these issues was a constant pita. If Graf ever want to get the support of retailers back again to sell their product then this is the kind of thing they need to overcome.

Even more true after watching the NA vs Finland game, NA playing with out and out pace with transitions happening immediately at flat out speed and a huge dollop of skill. Brings to mind a conversation I had with a pro inline player a few years ago when he told me he was retiring from the game at the age of 26, his comment as to why was because all these young bucks at the ages of 16 and younger were starting to skate rings around him. The game is a changing.

That doesn't say much for Sweden after Europe took them to the cleaners the other day, but I thought it was 2 potentially good teams playing a very average game. Agreed that NA is the dark horse and I hope they get out of group play, up front all the skill in the world but their defence is a worry.

Commenting on just the scanning, I've seen and worked on a number of applications that use this type of technology. If it's similar the scan is pretty good, it uses algorithms (not to far removed from facial and fingerprint scanning) to determine the image and placement and everything inside the image borders are rendered reasonably accurately. Whilst a dedicated, fixed work area using multiple lasers or cameras will give a highly accurate rendering, it's expensive and difficult to distribute and maintain in a retail sales environment. It can only get better if they continue to develop the software. An alternative process is to use a camera to take pictures of your foot then upload the pictures for them to be rendered into a 3d image, I've seen a company working on this (real estate company builds a 3d image of your home which you can use VR to walk through) and the results are damn good. I wish VH would follow this path, a near perfect last (use a 3D printer) to build a boot (eventually using a 3D printer for this) regardless of where you live in the world. Here is an example of using 123D catch (free software even) to build a last from photos: http://www.123dapp.com/123C-3D-Model/Foot/866435 I'd even pen this as an open letter to VH, if you could work with software like this to create lasts in your factory from photos taken locally, I could personally send around 150 skaters your way overnight..... And yes, this kind of technology turns the distribution market on its head but I suspect its only a matter of when before someone tools up for this.

Live stream or tv: DATE TEAMS TIME (ET) HOW TO WATCH Thu., Sept. 8 Sweden vs. Finland noon ESPN3 Czech Rep. vs. Russia 12:30 p.m. ESPN3 North America vs. Europe 8 p.m. ESPN2 Fri., Sept. 9 Canada vs. USA 7 p.m. ESPNU Sat., Sept. 10 Russia vs. Czech Rep. 10:30 a.m. ESPN3 Finland vs. Sweden noon ESPN3 USA vs. Canada 7 p.m. ESPN3 Sun., Sept. 11 Europe vs. North America 6 p.m. ESPN3 Tue., Sept. 13 Finland vs. USA 7 p.m. ESPN Wed., Sept. 14 Czech Rep. vs. North America 3:30 p.m. ESPN3 Sweden vs. Europe 7 p.m. ESPN3 Russia vs. Canada 7:30 p.m. ESPN2

I loved my graf skates for fit but only after: - I hammered down all of the staple ends in the footbed - added step steel to fix the stock steel that was bent and started to rust just at the thought of moisture - loctited the blade holder in place to stop the blade clicking and moving - added patches to the liner to stop early and rapid wear - then finally replaced the holders with tucks (because the blade would not sit straight in cobra 5000 holder because the holder is just poorly made) And then ended up doing similar work of varying degrees to just about every other graf skate in our local leagues (28 at last count). All had an issue of one kind or another, all fixable but just really poor QC. Fit and comfort is what Graf are really known for, if Vaughan can fix the rest at the right price point then they might be able to start a resurrection amongst retailers and players bit it's going to take a lot effort and they are going to have to front up with some really good customer service initiatives.

Personally I'd be disappointed with a length fit like this for custom skates unless you specified that length (I know players who do have their toes around 1cm off the toe cap to help prevent broken toes from pucks). Your toes look to sit around 1cm off the toe cap and that is one size too long. However length may not be as important with customs if the rest of the boot fits perfectly and your heel, ankle and rest of the foot are locked in securely.

and length comparison to 1x / apx2's?

Put some lipstick on your bone and then foot in the boot, the lipstick will transfer to the boot and give a mark as to where to punch. Then get the boot punched out and you will be fine. Or do it yourself, it's not hard with about $10 - $15 of parts. this is one of the easiest punches you can do. As you were in apx2's, how would you compare them in the heel area for width and overall length? Would you say they are narrower in the heel?

Bake then punch unless you over punch. Every time you bake the boot material has a tendency to return to its original state hence you lose some of the punch.

Hate to diasgree but there are literally hundreds of examples out there where toe starts are exactly where you use that part of the blade. For example have a look at this at the 1 minute mark as he hits the ice in his 1st, 2nd and 3rd stride:

Assuming your first release to market has the product pitched as an after market kit to replace existing frames on a boot, are you going to supply a mounting kit (say t-nuts and bolts or graf style mounts)? My one big wish for this frame is that you would add a small lug to the outside and inside of each mounting hole. This would allow a user to cross drill a slot in the frame (unless this was done at manufacturing) allowing the frame to be repositioned on the boot after fitting (aka speed skating style of mounting or the holder on the MLX ice skate).

Couple of questions: If one is not based in the US or Canada, will there be any online shops stocking them? What parts will be available? Warranty? One assumes the axles are set up for 608 bearings? Are the mounting holes set up to match any other existing frames eg hilo or labeda spacings?

Forsberg pads work really well, I skated with them for many years until I moved to a different solution. Pipe insulation also works well as material for the forsberg pad. Alternatively try a lace extender (which is what I now use), either make your own or buy them from http://www.greatsaves.org/ This thread will give you lots of detail as to how they work

What size were you in compared to the NXG's?

What size are your inlines compared to the 170's? I'm assuming you purchased the Graf with some reference to your inline size and if the Graf was that far out in size then how far out are your inlines?

Not unless you go the custom route with VH, and for you I'd suggest making a foot mold and sending this to them for them to build the boot around it.

Graf is a boot that pitches you well forward onto the ball of your foot, if you have never skated like this before the mid pain can be because your muscles are getting tortured in a brand new way as you skate, pitched forward and rolling in the boot. What inline skates are you in and what have you done to those (if anything) if you are skating in them comfortably? Then maybe consider an ice boot that follows a similar design for shape and volume. Alternatively (and this may be required for any boot you buy) consider trying to fill the negative space in the boot by using a half foot shoe insole (which will also help to counter the forward pitch in a Graf). You don't want a full length insole because this risks lifting the heel out of the pocket, a half one may help to raise your foot enough so that the boot can wrap around it when you tie your laces up and this will help to stabilise your foot in the boot.

And now they have a good scanner the next advance will be a 3D printed boot.

Your heel lock was most probably ok when you first got the skates but if you haven't had the skates tuned to your foot to address pronation then you will eventually end up in the situation you are now in. Because you pronate, your foot rolls in the boot as you skate. Maybe only a little at first with new skates but over time, as the foot continues to lever away at the inside ankle area of the boot, the boot eventually starts to give way and open up and now your heel lock starts to disappear. You can clamp the boot, I've done it to mine a number of times. You need clamps that have swivel heads on them and you want to clamp just under the ankle bone. Ideally you do what I did and that is to make a mold of your foot (I used plaster of paris and made it slightly smaller than my foot in width) and then when you clamp you use this inside of the boot and clamp against it hard. And also continue to use it every time you aren't skating so it helps the boot to hold its shape over time. As to fixing the pronation going forward, this either requires specialist help (orthotics and blade alignment) or some out of the box thinking (I have purchased a pair of skates that are extra wide, stripped the lining out and am making custom inner shells using gel pads and memory foam that address blade alignment and heel lock and fit).

Shims, or I should really say wedges, added between the holder and the boot aren't a bad way to go. You can get them added or removed as required, they can be fitted to any skate and don't have any impact on the resale value of the skate later on down the track. The downside is the cost of the rivets each time, finding someone who understands what is required and can work out what size and shape of wedge you need. Any LHS can fit them. Unless you know what size and shape of wedge you are after, I wouldn't get them built into the boot. I know someone who has talked to VH about this and they are not keen about it unless you know exactly what you need. They want to deliver a boot that meets your expectations and adding something based on a guess isn't what they want to do.

I'd love to say there is a magic wand one could wave or a pet answer I could give you that would solve it. It depends on how much you want to spend, if money is no object you see a foot specialist, they will evaluate your feet and suggest a remedy which might be orthotics or blade alignment or shims or a combination. Generally this will be some of the best money you will ever spend on hockey although you may not think so at the time. Orthotics do help and can overcome some of the issue but it depends on how much you pronate. A cheap option is to try superfeet or graf footbeds etc, orthotics designed for shoes normally don't help because they have too much volume which can lift the heel out of the pocket and or cause lace bite. Whilst you can continue on and not doing anything about it, pronation is a self fulfilling prophesy. When you pronate in the skate you place an excessive amount of pressure on the inside ankle area of the skate. Eventually the boot starts to widen through the inner ankle area which allows the foot to rotate a little bit more which increases the pressure on the boot and makes it wider and........ Eventually the boot breaks down and goes soft, normally takes 12 - 18 months in a stiff boot. If you plan to replace your boots within this time frame then I'd do nothing about it, just continue to skate and replace them as needed. Figure and speed skaters have dealt with this for years, MLX came close to providing a solution but since then the hockey world continues to bury its head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. I'm a fan of blade alignment but that is hard to do in retail or even customs skates (unless you have been evaluated and know where the center line of the blade needs to run and can get the manufacturer to place the holder in this position). I now buy the narrowest boot I can with the tightest heel lock and then stretch the outside of the boot to accommodate my foot. This has the effect of moving my foot outwards over the blade (and as such moving the blade inwards in relation to my feet) and hence helping to address the minor pronation I have in my right foot. Eventually I will go the VH route but only when I have had my feet assessed and we have worked out where the optimal placement of the blade should be, And I'll be asking for extra extra stiff stiffness through the inner ankle area. I just don't have the $'s to get it done now.

Your tongue is sliding to the side because your foot is twisting in the boot, even as well as if may fit. The general cause of this is a foot alignment issue, mainly because of pronation, so you may want consider looking at this as well as tabs on the tongue.