KOR Shift 1 and 2

[Chadd 916]

Now the second argument may offend some people here. Out of all of you who bought Kor skates, how many play at a high level with full body contact? Exactly my point. How many are top scorers in your leagues or consider the elite players of your leagues? I can’t hear you how many? Exactly.

I'm not going to bother going point by point, some of them are opinion and others are sheer fantasy. I will address one of them now and get back to you after the show, I have a flight in a couple hours.

One of the guys I hooked up with a pair of Kors, who happens to love them, was playing JR A in the US and had a couple of partial scholarship offers last time I heard. As for the number of guys wearing them, put a Bauer logo on the shift one and it would have had the same success as the One90. No small manufacturer is having much luck in hockey right now, as you need big bucks to get guys into your gear. Without the right pros in your gear, your product is crap in the eyes of the teenagers who drive the market. How else can you explain old school Tacks gloves with the striping down the back being crap, while the MIA gloves with striping down the back are "sweet" and "amazing"? It's primarily marketing and the herd mentality.

Can they be improved? Yes, just like any product. They were innovative when they were first released and changed the skate industry across the board. Look no farther than the Synergy skate or the One90 to see the impact that one good idea had on the hockey skate industry.

[mew1838 0]

Rubo, I was like wtf....when I read u comparing the holders, I know something is seriously wrong with you...so every skates should have tuuks?

[prenny207 1]

Rubo, i will ask you 1 question, and i will make 1 point... as well i will leave it at that rather then ramble on for 2 hours making 30 points.

you talk about what level of play people wearing Kor skates play, yet you failed to mention what level you play... well, we're waiting, what is it?

now my 1 point. after giving a demo pair of Shif1 1's to a full time hockey instructor, who teaches everywhere from kids to adults, and is on his skates 8 hours a day, 5 days a week i got this comment from him. "after being on my skates all day, i can say that my feet feel better in Kor's then they ever have in any other skate" followed by this "i have better edge control and agility then any other skate i have ever worn.

not every product works for every player. im sorry they didn't work for you. personally, they work for me. no i am not a pro, i did play 4 years of Div 1A college club however. i think after wearing custom and retail skates, i do have some clue as to what a product has to offer... but maybe thats just my opinion. the focus of your post was to discuss the product, not put down the people wearing them. you basically tried to say that nobody that wears Kor skates has a clue how to play hockey, or understands the advantages of a product that may make them feel like a better skater.

thank you for your "opinions"

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with opinions. I don't share Rubo's, perhaps, but that's me, right?

While I don't think the skill level is really a solid argument - everyone uses what works best for them. Plus, what pro's use may be more of a contract thing (i.e., they are paid by Bauer to wear Bauer) or a ritual thing (I have ALWAY worn Graf, and will always continue to do so). For instance, the pro's don't typically wear cages or face guards of some sort - does that mean that cages/guards don't work or aren't worth the cost?

In addition, there were people who got on the first pro's who tried composit sticks and such. Somethings just take time to catch on.

*NOW* one interesting thing he mentioned was the flex point. I think the "spring action" he mentions is more of an Easton marketing ploy, but I did try both the 1500c and 1300c skate, and did find my forward flex was limited (so I went back to not lacing the top few eyelets of my skate). So, I am curious as to that aspect to see if it holds water with the Kors. However, the simple solution could just be to take the top eyelets off again... for me, at least.

As for the longer runners, that's PP (I have a guy on my team for instance who had longer runners mounted for better straight line speed). Sure, it could be a trade off by not being able to cut tighter corners due to the longer "wheel base", but that was his choice.

As for agility, the first skates were a lower cut boot that, according to Kor, allowed for tighter cornering. I did try the Shift1 and did like the lower cut boot personally. I don't need that much ankle support and I liked the mobility/freedom that the lower cut offered. BUT, that was just me.

As for Kor not geting pro's, what others said is true and it's unfortunate. Did you know that the Betamax player was better than the VCR when it first came out? However, VCR had a better marketing and distribution plan. They came out on top as a result.

Also, might I remind everyone else about another upstart hockey company called Innovative? They never paid pros either and somehow, a sort of grass roots movement got them into the NHL after many years of obscurity. However, notice what happened when Warrior took over? Better marketing, player endorsements, and distribution chains and now they're everywhere.

So, it's a mixed bag.

Thanks for the feedback, Rubo. If nothing else, it's food for thought and discussion.

[A2rhino 76]

I guess what I dont understand about Pro's not using them other than the fact of the NHL fee's is that if say I'm a rookie wanting to better my game and be noticed I'm going to find whatever advantage I can to improve my game. As for a custom skate being made I guess I dont really understand why they need a custom skate when Kor says that after heat molding the skate it will form fit to your foot. I know that some people are going to say; They need 1/4 sizes and things like that but I cant see EVERY pro out there needing a custom 1/4 fit boot. Just a thought.

I am curious about something; Rubo, what is it that you do that makes you such an expert on these skates and leads you to these conclusuions that you have come to about them? I'm not being combative just would like to know your expert backgorund.

[Patrick67 1]

KOR has to pay the license fee, in order to be used in the NHL, so pro's at that level can't even use them if they want to. (I thought I read a post a while back claiming that they had payed the fee, but I'm unsure of that, since I can't re-find the post)

That said. If the skate is as good as people claim, there should atleast be NCAA/OHL/UHL/ECHL players using it, unless distribution is absolutely terrible.

KOR has to give the skate credibillity by having pro's or atleast semi-pro players using it.

Regarding Rubo's post: Some of your points make sense, others are more arguable. But what holds true for all of them is that without ethos (on your behalf) they are nothing more than utterings/guessings.

[irbenaid 0]

All I can add to this topic is that I did some reading on the Shift 1's and got some opinions from people on this forum (mainly Chadd and Jimmy). I purchased the skates nearly two years ago.

Now I'll never claim to be the best in my league or anything near that. All I can say is the difference that they made for me is huge. My skating improved and my speed improved as well. These are the most comfortable skates I have ever worn. I have no pain or pressure anywhere when I wear them. To put it simply it's like having bedroom slippers on. I haven't been skating all that long but I do know that these skates are just awesome for me. As long as it's possible I will never buy a different brand. Durability, comfort, and performance can't be beat for me. They fit so perfectly that I barely even have to tie them because of the way my foot locks into them. I haven't found another skate that did that for me.

Rubo, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say people wobble back and forth when turning and your toes slip, etc.... Maybe you just didnt' give it enough time to adjust to the radius of the blade or have them set at a pitch that you were comfortable skating with.

It just sounds like either you didn't give it enough time to adjust to them or you never actually skated in them and are totally exaggerating your skill level. Maybe a little of both. Of course since you're at such a high level I'm sure you realize that if you weren't comfortable with the blades you could have had them profiled to match your preferences which could have helped your wobbling problem.

I know I'm cetainly not going to base what equipment I buy off of waiting for an NHL'er to use them.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

I guess what I dont understand about Pro's not using them other than the fact of the NHL fee's is that if say I'm a rookie wanting to better my game and be noticed I'm going to find whatever advantage I can to improve my game. As for a custom skate being made I guess I dont really understand why they need a custom skate when Kor says that after heat molding the skate it will form fit to your foot. I know that some people are going to say; They need 1/4 sizes and things like that but I cant see EVERY pro out there needing a custom 1/4 fit boot. Just a thought.

Bear in mind, rookies may not get the choice range you think. I.E., their teams will have established ties to the major companies including custom fitting and discounts. For them to go to a "one off" (for lack of a better description) alternate company they may end up having to fare on their own, including possibly paying full retail and dealing with arranging for fittings and replacements on their own. Sometimes it's just easier not to swim upstream.

PLUS, if they have to pay their own, the pay isn't awesome in the minor leagues and they have to pay large travel taxes and such for the different states they play in. Therefore, it's in their best interest to keep expenses low and if the difference between 2 pairs of KORs in a season and 2 pairs of CCM's is $750, well.....

Think about, for instance, how many stick brands you see out there other than CCM, Easton, Bauer, Sher-Wood, and Mission. You know they exist, yet..... where are they? Where is Fury, Tour, Graf (sticks), Busch (rampant in Europe by the way), Harrow, etc in the pros? Are the other products significantly better? Doubtful. However, those companies have cut deals with the companies and players.....

As for a custom skate being made I guess I dont really understand why they need a custom skate when Kor says that after heat molding the skate it will form fit to your foot. I know that some people are going to say; They need 1/4 sizes and things like that but I cant see EVERY pro out there needing a custom 1/4 fit boot. Just a thought.

I will say this..... not everything can be one size fits all. It is the best for fitting MOST feet, but what about the extremely wide or extremely narrow? What of bone deformities that require, for instance, larger toe boxes and the like? So, no one thing can fit everyone.

THAT BEING SAID, I have it under good authority that Kor IS, in fact, experimenting in customization. Still a little premature to get into specifics, but I have heard it from, what I consider, to be a reliable source..... ;-)

[A2rhino 76]

Ogie,

Thanks for all the info. I respect your words as well as Kor products. Hell I've always wanted a pair of them but ended up getting a pair of S15's becuase I got sick of waiting for them to be released. Never the less, I hope that for the sake of Kor that they do make it and here to stay.

[Steve123 0]

All of you guys are aking Rubo questions about what he said, but I keep thinking that he said something like he didn't want to ramble on for hours and argue about it, didn't he? Sorry if I'm mistaken.

[irbenaid 0]

Steve,

He made a lot of statements that don't seem to add up from the experience that a lot of have had with these skates. He also didn't provide any backup info to verify his authority on the subject. For example the high level that he plays at that allowed him to truly test the skates out more than anyone else on here has.

We're just asking questions back to someone who took the time to make a very lengthy post. I don't see the problem with that. If he chooses to answer then great. Either way I'm still happy with my skates.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

it’s only my opinion nothing less and nothing more.

Yep. I said as much as well and agree.

Ogie VCR is a bad analogy here. Skates and stick are the most important tools of a player, in the high level it must be perfect. It’s probably the only sport on the planet where tools of the trade are as important as skill, well Golf maybe another one.

Yep - agreed, but was just trying to paint the picture.

[irbenaid 0]

Rubo,

I respect your opinion. In the end it's just that and all that really matters is that everyone is happy with what they found to work best for themselves.

[johnpace2 0]

I just don't agree on the improper flexing of the skate. IMO, the skates didn't work for you and that's fine.

I came from a Bauer 7000 Pro skate and jumping into the Kors I've felt no problems whatsoever. The Kor skates have better support are more comfortable and turn better.

Again, this is just my opinion of course, but if you scan the numerous Kor threads, the main issue that comes up is a seam around the ankle causing some bleeding. There are some who have trouble fitting into any skate and some that wanted to mount different holders to the boot but that's about it.

Also, like SRI said, if Kor got some reps out there and did what it takes to sign an NHL player, I fully believe the skate would speak for itself. You can watch some videos on the net. Plenty of former pros skated on them and seemed to like them. Were they being paid to appear in the video? I have no idea...

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

Rubo,

I respect your opinion. In the end it's just that and all that really matters is that everyone is happy with what they found to work best for themselves.

Well said.

[ice-ed 0]

Hello guys,

Just looking to give my two cents on this issue, from what I've seen, because I haven't had the opportunity to skate on the KOR's, peoples opinions are great on them, I can't wait to get my feet on a pair.

On them being in the big show, I'll sidewalk a little bit here going into football, where Terrell Owens got fined $10,000 us dollars yesterday for waving a "personal towel", :o yes, a towel that was not endorsed by the NFL. Imagine if it were the helmet or shoes !!!! I have a strong feeling this is the only reason we still don't see the KORs in the PRO level yet.

[irbenaid 0]

SRI,

I agree with you. From what I've seen from Kor their marketing is their biggest enemy. Just look at their website. There is a picture of the Shift 2 on there. But, yet you can't find one other thing about it on their site. If you go under products the only info is for the Shift 1. If they can't even get this part right then it's no big surprise why we don't see any pros in them.

[Spreedizzle 1]

I spoke today to one of the principle owners of a Compro Sports and he said that the marketing fee for entering their product into the NHL (3 pros are using their sticks) was $47,000. Not a small chunk of change, and I would be quite interested to see what happens if and when Kor would decide to try and do the same.

[Neal 41]

Hold on, if a certain company blacks out their name on the product, what is the legality of that situation in NHL. For example you want to test out something for few months then if the response is positive you pay up the fee. Also what is allowed to be left out in the open, brand name, model name, symbol……..

Cheers

I recall Christian doing this 2 years ago with Anson Carter using a blank Christian shaft or one-piece. Literally blank no lettering at all. At least one point this option was available to manufacturers.

[A2rhino 76]

Keith Premiu did this for lke 2 years with his sticks. Guys like Jagar still do this with other things such as his gloves. Which has been discussed in another thread.

[Viking 1]

I've been under the impression that blacked out/logo-less stuff was verbotten. I think this was pointed out to me in a thread about Teppo Numminen's gloves - they were Montreal gloves, but they hadn't paid the marketing fee, so they'd put an Eagle cuff roll on them to prevent trouble - I asked why he didn't just black them out so as not to advertise for another company, and that was explained as why. I know Jagr's gloves of late haven't had anything on the cuff, but I also know all rules are out the window if you're Jaromir Jagr.

... Also, the direct marketing fee to have your name on equipment brings questions to my mind - I know it doesn't have to be your company's equipment with your logo on it (i.e. Teppo Numminen's gloves, painted over sticks, etc.) - but is there any rule that says it has to be a hockey equipment company at all that has their name on there? Like what if Coca Cola paid the direct marketing fee to the NHL, and paid Sidney Crosby a million dollars to put their logo on the cuffs of his gloves - could they do that? This seems like a missed marketing opportunity if so... I know with players like Crosby with existing marketing deals with manufacturers, that might be tough, but I'm sure it could be done in some capacity.

[Chadd 916]

... Also, the direct marketing fee to have your name on equipment brings questions to my mind - I know it doesn't have to be your company's equipment with your logo on it (i.e. Teppo Numminen's gloves, painted over sticks, etc.) - but is there any rule that says it has to be a hockey equipment company at all that has their name on there? Like what if Coca Cola paid the direct marketing fee to the NHL, and paid Sidney Crosby a million dollars to put their logo on the cuffs of his gloves - could they do that? This seems like a missed marketing opportunity if so... I know with players like Crosby with existing marketing deals with manufacturers, that might be tough, but I'm sure it could be done in some capacity.

You might want to call golden palace and let them know.

[Katzenjammer 1]

Great thread! Two questions,

1. if I'm currently wearing a bauer supreme 8090 in an 8.5, does anyone know what size I would take in the Kor Shift1?

2. any opinions on how the shift1 compares to the one90?

Thanks! ~katz

[TBLfan 25]

Doesn't Jagr's DR gloves have a RBK logo on the cuff near the thumb? I could have sworn I saw the logo.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

Jagr could be under contract with Rbk so has to do it that way (I saw a Busch stick painted like a Bauer 3030 when Sydor was under contract with Bauer).

However, that doesn't mean that the Dr. glove isn't "sanctioned" by the NHL - just the pro's way of getting the gear they prefer to play with while still playing nice-nice with the legalese in their side-contracts.