LHS VS. THE CONSUMER

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

How about if the manufacturers let the LHS's have their stuff on consignment instead of making them pay for it up front? Only pay for what you sell instead of making them tie up so much $$$ in inventory? Use the LHS as a showroom for your gear.

Because they would assume all responsibility if the gear doesn't sell. When they sell it to a dealer, it's out of their hands and don't want it back. They're in it like we are - to make money.

The smaller guys (especially in the glove market) do that to try to get the dealer to put their product in the store, when they probably wouldn't have bought it.

Like others have covered in this thread, the big boys buy a whole lot more than the smaller guys. The smaller guys aren't trying to gouge you - they don't have a huge investment in it, however, their margins are in line. They just don't get the big volume discounts that make the prices go down.

[Datsyukiandeek 0]

Want to save some cash? Don't employ 4 highschool age douchebags that have no idea what they're doing. I shop at one LHS, on a weekly basis and they don't even recognize me. A week ago I asked if they sold glue sticks and the kid just said "No". I replied with.. "Ok but I just spent $100 on three blades, go get a glue stick from the back." They markup their blades $10-$15 from online prices and they can't even pony up a glue stick.

[Bane 1]

Put another way...

The online store can draw on customers from all over the US and sometimes Canada. The LHS can only draw on customers in its immediate area. The online store doesn't exactly need your business to survive. Your LHS does. And so on down the line... Like Smoke said, the LHS has to pay for many things that an online store does not.

There's nothing stopping a LHS from putting up a website and taking online orders. Some of the smaller LHS do that here too. So to me they have the same opportunity as the large websites.

I don't think you understand the sheer volume of product that the big online shops buy from the manufacturer. We are talking about millions of dollars. A local shop is not going to be able to put up that kind of capital. On top of that, they would have to have the correct computer capabilities (and know how) to run the website. The big online shops also make some money off of their shipping. They are able to get a slight break from their shipping provider that a smaller shop will not be able to get.

Most of the big manufacturers have set a limit on how low a product can be sold mainly due to complaints by LHS type stores. So the landscape should be fairly competitive now. So the type of I bought a 1000 pair of XXX type of deals shouldn't really matter anymore.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

The problem with that is, the industry is too small to decently pay people. I don't employ HS-age kids - I go after the college ones. They're a bit more responsible. But yes, as an adult, unless you have a vested interest in the shop or have a lot of responsibility, don't expect to be paid very well.

[M-Cohen 0]

Want to save some cash? Don't employ 4 highschool age douchebags that have no idea what they're doing. I shop at one LHS, on a weekly basis and they don't even recognize me. A week ago I asked if they sold glue sticks and the kid just said "No". I replied with.. "Ok but I just spent $100 on three blades, go get a glue stick from the back." They markup their blades $10-$15 from online prices and they can't even pony up a glue stick.

If anyone sounds like the douchebag there it's you. Maybe "highschool aged douchebag" does know what he is doing, but can't sell one. And why does purchasing something give you the right to demand them to give you something free. If you go to your local grocer and buy some meat do you get to demand they give you some BBQ sauce? I understand the anger with the markup, but still. It's their business to run well or run into the ground.

[Lufria 1]

Want to save some cash? Don't employ 4 highschool age douchebags that have no idea what they're doing. I shop at one LHS, on a weekly basis and they don't even recognize me. A week ago I asked if they sold glue sticks and the kid just said "No". I replied with.. "Ok but I just spent $100 on three blades, go get a glue stick from the back." They markup their blades $10-$15 from online prices and they can't even pony up a glue stick.

If anyone sounds like the douchebag there it's you. Maybe "highschool aged douchebag" does know what he is doing, but can't sell one. And why does purchasing something give you the right to demand them to give you something free. If you go to your local grocer and buy some meat do you get to demand they give you some BBQ sauce? I understand the anger with the markup, but still. It's their business to run well or run into the ground.

Although i don't think the "highschool idiot" isn't exactly what he means, i can see where he's coming from. I know it's been said on the board before, but Perani's is one reason why i tend to look to online orders more often then the LHS. I would love to visit my LHS and let them help me, but if you're not going to be respectful and helpful at the shop, then there really isn't any reason for me to return to the store. Go to a restruant with ok food, and you might return. Go to a resturant that has terrible service, and you won't go back there again.

I know that the majority of us want our LHS to be sucessful, and that's a great thing. But if i can find what i'm looking for for cheaper online, and the LHS won't match it, then i'm going to buy online. I'm not the 16 year old that has no money either. I should also mention that i normally only price match with gloves and sticks. Skates the LHS is a must.

[yipperzz 28]

Want to save some cash? Don't employ 4 highschool age douchebags that have no idea what they're doing. I shop at one LHS, on a weekly basis and they don't even recognize me. A week ago I asked if they sold glue sticks and the kid just said "No". I replied with.. "Ok but I just spent $100 on three blades, go get a glue stick from the back." They markup their blades $10-$15 from online prices and they can't even pony up a glue stick.

If anyone sounds like the douchebag there it's you. Maybe "highschool aged douchebag" does know what he is doing, but can't sell one. And why does purchasing something give you the right to demand them to give you something free. If you go to your local grocer and buy some meat do you get to demand they give you some BBQ sauce? I understand the anger with the markup, but still. It's their business to run well or run into the ground.

Although i don't think the "highschool idiot" isn't exactly what he means, i can see where he's coming from. I know it's been said on the board before, but Perani's is one reason why i tend to look to online orders more often then the LHS. I would love to visit my LHS and let them help me, but if you're not going to be respectful and helpful at the shop, then there really isn't any reason for me to return to the store. Go to a restruant with ok food, and you might return. Go to a resturant that has terrible service, and you won't go back there again.

I know that the majority of us want our LHS to be sucessful, and that's a great thing. But if i can find what i'm looking for for cheaper online, and the LHS won't match it, then i'm going to buy online. I'm not the 16 year old that has no money either. I should also mention that i normally only price match with gloves and sticks. Skates the LHS is a must.

so you make them match the price of an online store with shipping? or without? because the store had to pay to have the good delivered to them. and they also had to pay the person to open up the boxes and put them on the shelves. you're also not having to wait for the stick to come in the mail and possibly come damaged. if you receive a broken stick, you're going to waste more time and money to ship it back. where as if you go to a lhs, the stick is already in good condition. they wouldn't be putting a broken stock on the shelves.

[Lufria 1]

Want to save some cash? Don't employ 4 highschool age douchebags that have no idea what they're doing. I shop at one LHS, on a weekly basis and they don't even recognize me. A week ago I asked if they sold glue sticks and the kid just said "No". I replied with.. "Ok but I just spent $100 on three blades, go get a glue stick from the back." They markup their blades $10-$15 from online prices and they can't even pony up a glue stick.

If anyone sounds like the douchebag there it's you. Maybe "highschool aged douchebag" does know what he is doing, but can't sell one. And why does purchasing something give you the right to demand them to give you something free. If you go to your local grocer and buy some meat do you get to demand they give you some BBQ sauce? I understand the anger with the markup, but still. It's their business to run well or run into the ground.

Although i don't think the "highschool idiot" isn't exactly what he means, i can see where he's coming from. I know it's been said on the board before, but Perani's is one reason why i tend to look to online orders more often then the LHS. I would love to visit my LHS and let them help me, but if you're not going to be respectful and helpful at the shop, then there really isn't any reason for me to return to the store. Go to a restruant with ok food, and you might return. Go to a resturant that has terrible service, and you won't go back there again.

I know that the majority of us want our LHS to be sucessful, and that's a great thing. But if i can find what i'm looking for for cheaper online, and the LHS won't match it, then i'm going to buy online. I'm not the 16 year old that has no money either. I should also mention that i normally only price match with gloves and sticks. Skates the LHS is a must.

so you make them match the price of an online store with shipping? or without? because the store had to pay to have the good delivered to them. and they also had to pay the person to open up the boxes and put them on the shelves. you're also not having to wait for the stick to come in the mail and possibly come damaged. if you receive a broken stick, you're going to waste more time and money to ship it back. where as if you go to a lhs, the stick is already in good condition. they wouldn't be putting a broken stock on the shelves.

With shipping, of couse. There's always a risk when ordering online as to the accuracy of the item as well as the quality. Can you imagine trying to sell those pro stock sticks and someone mistaking what the item was? But people always buy on Ebay, which truthfully more risky then buying from a known online store.

But as much as it's unfair that the LHS is paying someone to stock the stick, ensuring the shipping, and all the instore work, it still doesn't completely persuade me to not use online. There was a 05 Bauer XXX for 98$ online. There's no LHS that can possibly beat that. How can you honestly pass that up, if that's what your going for?

My point is, bottom line people want to find their equipment for the cheapest route. If it's that low priced compared to most LHS, then people might take a chance on it. I'm all for the LHS side of things (working at a store/rink myself for 9 months)but realisticly, people want to find the lowest price.

[blues_91 0]

Cyclone Taylor Sports and Cyclonetaylor.com are 2 seperate entities. Cyclone Taylor Sports represent the store level, CycloneTaylor.com the mail order level. Prices found on CycloneTaylor.com are exclusive to CycloneTaylor.com and are not and will not be honored at the in store level. Pricing on CycloneTaylor.com is for export purposes only, and reflects cost of shipping, brokerage, and duties and taxes paid on items, as well as the inherent risk and inconvenience of mail order. In store pricing reflects the level of customer service in store, the safety and convenience of being able to "touch it and feel it" prior to purchasing, and knowing what you have is correct and sizing is accurate.

Taken from the CTS website.

Edit: as for the "teenage douchebag" reference, I was in my LHS yesterday, and very knowledgeable kid helped me. He obviously hadn't even gone through puberty, as his voice was VERY high, but he gave me just as good service as any of the other LHS employees. That generalization that teenage are unknowledgeable doesn't make any sense. I've been to stores where grown men knew nothing about sizing for skates, and gave replies such as (well skates always fit 1.5 sizes smaller than shoes) when I told him he gave me a size too big.

[TBLfan 25]

Want to save some cash? Don't employ 4 highschool age douchebags that have no idea what they're doing. I shop at one LHS, on a weekly basis and they don't even recognize me. A week ago I asked if they sold glue sticks and the kid just said "No". I replied with.. "Ok but I just spent $100 on three blades, go get a glue stick from the back." They markup their blades $10-$15 from online prices and they can't even pony up a glue stick.

If anyone sounds like the douchebag there it's you. Maybe "highschool aged douchebag" does know what he is doing, but can't sell one. And why does purchasing something give you the right to demand them to give you something free. If you go to your local grocer and buy some meat do you get to demand they give you some BBQ sauce? I understand the anger with the markup, but still. It's their business to run well or run into the ground.

Although i don't think the "highschool idiot" isn't exactly what he means, i can see where he's coming from. I know it's been said on the board before, but Perani's is one reason why i tend to look to online orders more often then the LHS. I would love to visit my LHS and let them help me, but if you're not going to be respectful and helpful at the shop, then there really isn't any reason for me to return to the store. Go to a restruant with ok food, and you might return. Go to a resturant that has terrible service, and you won't go back there again.

I know that the majority of us want our LHS to be sucessful, and that's a great thing. But if i can find what i'm looking for for cheaper online, and the LHS won't match it, then i'm going to buy online. I'm not the 16 year old that has no money either. I should also mention that i normally only price match with gloves and sticks. Skates the LHS is a must.

so you make them match the price of an online store with shipping? or without? because the store had to pay to have the good delivered to them. and they also had to pay the person to open up the boxes and put them on the shelves. you're also not having to wait for the stick to come in the mail and possibly come damaged. if you receive a broken stick, you're going to waste more time and money to ship it back. where as if you go to a lhs, the stick is already in good condition. they wouldn't be putting a broken stock on the shelves.

With shipping, of couse. There's always a risk when ordering online as to the accuracy of the item as well as the quality. Can you imagine trying to sell those pro stock sticks and someone mistaking what the item was? But people always buy on Ebay, which truthfully more risky then buying from a known online store.

But as much as it's unfair that the LHS is paying someone to stock the stick, ensuring the shipping, and all the instore work, it still doesn't completely persuade me to not use online. There was a 05 Bauer XXX for 98$ online. There's no LHS that can possibly beat that. How can you honestly pass that up, if that's what your going for?

My point is, bottom line people want to find their equipment for the cheapest route. If it's that low priced compared to most LHS, then people might take a chance on it. I'm all for the LHS side of things (working at a store/rink myself for 9 months)but realisticly, people want to find the lowest price.

No one said to NOT use online stores, there are plenty of great deals out there that you can take advantage of. In fact, I talk with some of the guys at my LHS about good deals online because they can sometimes beat the cost the shop would pay. Most of them play hockey too, just because they work at a shop doesn't mean they can't take advantage of some good deals.

The biggest issue is using a shop's showroom as a fitting room, that is just ethically wrong. You're literally taking money out of their pocket... If the shop was to raise the price for a sharpening I'm sure those same people wouldn't be too happy about it.

Most of us have had money issues at one point in our lives. The best thing you can do is to manage your finances better. $10 here and there don't make a difference when you think of... Not buying that 3rd OPS, heck you don't even need that first, let alone second OPS. Hell, even eating dinner at a resturant as opposed to cooking it yourself. If you think about ever expense you spend over the course of a day and see where you can cut back and start adding it up you'd be surprised how much more money you'll have. In my opinion, I'd rather pinch a few pennies to be able to spend a bit more and get good customer service and build a good relationship with a shop as opposed to just being a credit card and account number to an online store. If you have a good LHS you should take advantage of what they have to offer in terms of service, all they ask for is a little extra here and there. I dare you to call HM or HG and tell me that the person that answered the phone knew anything about anything other than answering the phone and being rude.

[sabres48 0]

I dont see how you guys can argue a LHS loses money on someone fitting themselves without any employee help, and then buy online. Even if you didnt try on the equipment, you still wouldnt be buying it from them. Either way the LHS is not gonna make any money. However if you atleast go in to try the equipment on you may stumble across something else and buy that there. So what i am saying is if i am not gonna buy the equipment from you wheter i try it on at your LHS or not, at least if i go to your store i may find something i else i want to buy from you. And you cant argue that its the cost of stocking it that makes you lose money, becuase there is no difference if i try it on and dont buy it, or just dont buy it, either way your not making any money.

[Monty22 833]

I dont see how you guys can argue a LHS loses money on someone fitting themselves without any employee help, and then buy online. Even if you didnt try on the equipment, you still wouldnt be buying it from them. Either way the LHS is not gonna make any money. However if you atleast go in to try the equipment on you may stumble across something else and buy that there. So what i am saying is if i am not gonna buy the equipment from you wheter i try it on at your LHS or not, at least if i go to your store i may find something i else i want to buy from you. And you cant argue that its the cost of stocking it that makes you lose money, becuase there is no difference if i try it on and dont buy it, or just dont buy it, either way your not making any money.

You just don't get it, do you?

[DarkStar50 679]

You know its the dog days of summer when we start the annual "LHS VS. THE CONSUMER" thread.

I have been thinking of matching online prices for skates in our shop. Let's say I match the Vapor XXV at $270 on HG vs my shop price of $310. Now lets do the math: $270 + $18.90(7% sales tax) + $25 baking charge + $12 First time sharpening charge = $325.90. BTW, we include the 7% sales tax in the baking and sharpening to round off the price. Now, if I match the HG price at $270 I may also have to charge the customer to solve any problems he has with the skates. This would be part of the equation if he bought the XXV direct from HG. So, am I really obligated to solve any problems free of charge since I matched the online price? Now, if he buys the skates in the shop at $310 + $21.70(7% sales tax) = final price of $331.70. The baking and first time sharpening are included in the purchase of the skates, of course. If there are any problems or tweaks(another baking, rivets, tighten blade) the customer will not be charged for these services. The final online saving is $5.80. This is just an example of what could happen. I know the XXV is $270 at HG because a customer was in on a Wednesday, tried on the XXV and his current skates were Bauer 4000 circa 1991, came back in on a Sunday and asked me to match an online price. I found the HG price online that he had and mentioned that the skates needed to be baked and sharpened if bought online. Once he did the math in his head, he decided to buy the skates in the shop.

[ExitTwoEighty 7]

Some online etailers do not charge tax when you're out of state. Also they give free shipping if you spend over X amount of dollars. That alone could save me 20-30 bucks off new skates. Also, not everyone bakes their skates.

[JR Boucicaut 3803]

Also, not everyone bakes their skates.

Also, not everyone knows their true skate size.

[mew1838 0]

I have to stress that not all LHS have good service and knowledgeable people. If you think your LHS has excellent service, support them by means. I often wonder how shops like no icing can often charge the same prices as online stores.

[TBLfan 25]

Some online etailers do not charge tax when you're out of state. Also they give free shipping if you spend over X amount of dollars. That alone could save me 20-30 bucks off new skates. Also, not everyone bakes their skates.

You also don't need a first sharpening... Oh but you can get one of those hockeygiant special sharpenings for $5.

[ExitTwoEighty 7]

Some online etailers do not charge tax when you're out of state. Also they give free shipping if you spend over X amount of dollars. That alone could save me 20-30 bucks off new skates. Also, not everyone bakes their skates.

You also don't need a first sharpening... Oh but you can get one of those hockeygiant special sharpenings for $5.

right.... I didn't say you don't need a first sharpening. <_<

using darkstar's numbers..

skates = 270 no tax, no shipping, no baking + 12 sharpening = $282

or $331.70

$50 bucks is a big difference. That's just me, I'm old fashioned and don't bake my skates. And I KNOW what size I'm buying when I buy skates online. I've deviated brands and didn't like it so now I stick to one brand. Now *if* I wanted to try on skates before purchasing them online, I would just go to a major sporting retailer, and try the lesser models of those brands. Sure, they aren't knowledgeable about hockey products, but that's what MSH is for. That way, I wouldn't get the pissy LHS employee staring at me.

[yipperzz 28]

Some online etailers do not charge tax when you're out of state. Also they give free shipping if you spend over X amount of dollars. That alone could save me 20-30 bucks off new skates. Also, not everyone bakes their skates.

You also don't need a first sharpening... Oh but you can get one of those hockeygiant special sharpenings for $5.

right.... I didn't say you don't need a first sharpening. <_<

using darkstar's numbers..

skates = 270 no tax, no shipping, no baking + 12 sharpening = $282

or $331.70

$50 bucks is a big difference. That's just me, I'm old fashioned and don't bake my skates. And I KNOW what size I'm buying when I buy skates online. I've deviated brands and didn't like it so now I stick to one brand. Now *if* I wanted to try on skates before purchasing them online, I would just go to a major sporting retailer, and try the lesser models of those brands. Sure, they aren't knowledgeable about hockey products, but that's what MSH is for. That way, I wouldn't get the pissy LHS employee staring at me.

you're supposed to pay taxes on online purchases even outside of your state. just because the store doesn't charge you, doesn't mean you don't have to pay it.

and when the newer skates come out (i'll give nike bauer as an example), the size and fitment don't change? what about the one90, supreme 70, and the XXXX? they all seem to be different than previous models. if your local hockey shop full of pissy employees goes out of business, how would you know your size? shipping the skates back and forth to the e-tailer at your cost? pretty soon you'd be spending more.

[iron Ghost 0]

not that anyone cares but heres my 2 cents

LHS

*If you dont support it, it wont be there for you to use down the road

*Gets burned by consumers fitting themselves (yes sabres 48, even if you dont use an employees help). It cost money for the store every second of every day to keep its doors open and make it available for you to come in, touch, feel, and size yourself up for online purchases.

*Is NOT obligated to throw in anything just because you bought something from them. The grocery store example is true. Why is it that consumers expect something from the LHS but never once have you ever bothered the grocery store manager for a free box of cereal because you bought milk that day??!!!?? Pure ignorance!

*The LHS IS obligated to staff HELPFULL and KNOWLEDGEABLE staff. if your store cannot provide this service to you 1st and foremost then you SHOULD buy online. IMO this is a store's first obligation to its customer (even if it is in the form of a teenager). LHS cant afford to pay adults. + adults (for the most part) dont buy the latest and greatest, they hold on to equipment untill it dies. If you want to know about how a RBK O stick performs vs a XXX lite TRUST ME when I say chances are that the freakin' teenager at the LHS probably has tried both in the past 3 months.

*should be well stocked (which is tricky).I understand that if the LHS doesnt have your size on a Wednesday, you need skates by Friday, and monkey or giant can have your skates at your door in 48 hrs, you gotta do what you gotta do. When it comes to inventory, by not having it, a LHS is basically telling a customer to go online (LHS are supposed to be about convenience)

*Having said that, you typically pay a premium for convenience (duh)

*Is bound by margins and overhead. LHS are expected to carry the latest and greatest everything. Dont argue with a shop owner about his discontinued XX or XXX skates being one price and they are 50% of that online. That shop owner paid a lot of money to have that skate on his shelf when they were the latest and greatest and now has excess inventory that he is probably taking a hit on just to stay competitive with HG or HM.

*HATE the guy that is just using them. DOnt be that guy. Its obvious when people are yanking your chain and in any industry you soon learn not to waste your time with that customer.

*Take care of their customers (atleast the good LHS do). I cant tell you how many pairs of high end skates over recent years I have gone to war with the companies over because they broke after warranty period but under a year for customers who have shopped at my store. ONLINE retailers will tell you straight up "its out of warranty, sorry" or my favorite "Oh your runner broke on your skates, thats too bad, take it to your LOCAL authorized dealer". Online merchants dont offer service, only pricing.

*Offer a SERVICE to the Local hockey community. Support the LHS and they can continue to grow hockey in your community.

Online

*Normally has EVERYTHING in stock (i.e. your LHS doesnt carry the fuel 110 XP, online will)

*Normally priced better than retail (lower overhead)

*may or may not have knowledgeable staff

*Offer convenience to those who dont live near a LHS

*buy a lot of closeout stock AT CLOSEOUT PRICES (hence lower cost on discontinued styles)

*Will give you the run around if you have any issues

*Are there to SELL you, not SERVICE you

* cant tell you what size is the proper fit for you (often times, you dont know either without pimping the local guy)

*Cant offer the personality/character of the LHS guys

*Have probably never given you something for free either (kinda like the LHS and the grocery store) other than shipping (also kinda like the LHS and grocery store)

Overall its kind of like major manufacturers who out source jobs over seas. It hurts your local economy and eventually both sides are damaged (the consumer and manufacturer).

I live in Columbus and work at the LHS. I grew up in Cbus without a LHS of any kind and had to guess my way through my equipmnt buying experiences over the years through catalogue sales. Ive also seen 1st hand what small store owners go through to service their local community only to watch the local community nickel and dime them for free glue sticks and what not and buy little johnny's skates online because he saved $5.80 . I understand that you have to look out for your own best interest as consumers but really, truly, that $$$ saved comes right out of the local guys pocket, the same local guy who saves your butt when your runner breaks in the midle of the state high school playoffs. Keep in mind that the LHS could charge you $50/ wood stick and $100 for runners to make up the difference from money lost because of online sales and cash in on your emergency situation, BUT HE DOESNT! Keep that in the back of your mind that the next time you walk into a shop to "size yourself up" for a helmet online.

Thanks for reading.

[Bane 1]

If you are going to offer your two cents. Please get it right. Hockey monkey and Hockey Giant do offer skate service. Unfortunately if you don't live in the area of one of their stores, of course you will have to ship it back. I recently had my Mission S400 skates come apart at the seams after 5 months of use. I called hockey giant and they told me they would give me my full purchase price back and let me put it towards new skates. They let me use the credit online or in any of their stores. IMO that IS customer service.

Maybe in the past it was true that they didn't offer service, but that is no longer true. In fact, Hawk Hockey (one of Hockey monkey's so cal stores) is one of only two places I get a consistent a good, skate sharpening and good skate work, the other being Anaheim Ice.

You forget that for most of us in SoCal, Hocky Ginat and Hockey Monkey are our LHS.

not that anyone cares but heres my 2 cents

LHS

*If you dont support it, it wont be there for you to use down the road

*Gets burned by consumers fitting themselves (yes sabres 48, even if you dont use an employees help). It cost money for the store every second of every day to keep its doors open and make it available for you to come in, touch, feel, and size yourself up for online purchases.

*Is NOT obligated to throw in anything just because you bought something from them. The grocery store example is true. Why is it that consumers expect something from the LHS but never once have you ever bothered the grocery store manager for a free box of cereal because you bought milk that day??!!!?? Pure ignorance!

*The LHS IS obligated to staff HELPFULL and KNOWLEDGEABLE staff. if your store cannot provide this service to you 1st and foremost then you SHOULD buy online. IMO this is a store's first obligation to its customer (even if it is in the form of a teenager). LHS cant afford to pay adults. + adults (for the most part) dont buy the latest and greatest, they hold on to equipment untill it dies. If you want to know about how a RBK O stick performs vs a XXX lite TRUST ME when I say chances are that the freakin' teenager at the LHS probably has tried both in the past 3 months.

*should be well stocked (which is tricky).I understand that if the LHS doesnt have your size on a Wednesday, you need skates by Friday, and monkey or giant can have your skates at your door in 48 hrs, you gotta do what you gotta do. When it comes to inventory, by not having it, a LHS is basically telling a customer to go online (LHS are supposed to be about convenience)

*Having said that, you typically pay a premium for convenience (duh)

*Is bound by margins and overhead. LHS are expected to carry the latest and greatest everything. Dont argue with a shop owner about his discontinued XX or XXX skates being one price and they are 50% of that online. That shop owner paid a lot of money to have that skate on his shelf when they were the latest and greatest and now has excess inventory that he is probably taking a hit on just to stay competitive with HG or HM.

*HATE the guy that is just using them. DOnt be that guy. Its obvious when people are yanking your chain and in any industry you soon learn not to waste your time with that customer.

*Take care of their customers (atleast the good LHS do). I cant tell you how many pairs of high end skates over recent years I have gone to war with the companies over because they broke after warranty period but under a year for customers who have shopped at my store. ONLINE retailers will tell you straight up "its out of warranty, sorry" or my favorite "Oh your runner broke on your skates, thats too bad, take it to your LOCAL authorized dealer". Online merchants dont offer service, only pricing.

*Offer a SERVICE to the Local hockey community. Support the LHS and they can continue to grow hockey in your community.

Online

*Normally has EVERYTHING in stock (i.e. your LHS doesnt carry the fuel 110 XP, online will)

*Normally priced better than retail (lower overhead)

*may or may not have knowledgeable staff

*Offer convenience to those who dont live near a LHS

*buy a lot of closeout stock AT CLOSEOUT PRICES (hence lower cost on discontinued styles)

*Will give you the run around if you have any issues

*Are there to SELL you, not SERVICE you

* cant tell you what size is the proper fit for you (often times, you dont know either without pimping the local guy)

*Cant offer the personality/character of the LHS guys

*Have probably never given you something for free either (kinda like the LHS and the grocery store) other than shipping (also kinda like the LHS and grocery store)

Overall its kind of like major manufacturers who out source jobs over seas. It hurts your local economy and eventually both sides are damaged (the consumer and manufacturer).

I live in Columbus and work at the LHS. I grew up in Cbus without a LHS of any kind and had to guess my way through my equipmnt buying experiences over the years through catalogue sales. Ive also seen 1st hand what small store owners go through to service their local community only to watch the local community nickel and dime them for free glue sticks and what not and buy little johnny's skates online because he saved $5.80 . I understand that you have to look out for your own best interest as consumers but really, truly, that $$$ saved comes right out of the local guys pocket, the same local guy who saves your butt when your runner breaks in the midle of the state high school playoffs. Keep in mind that the LHS could charge you $50/ wood stick and $100 for runners to make up the difference from money lost because of online sales and cash in on your emergency situation, BUT HE DOESNT! Keep that in the back of your mind that the next time you walk into a shop to "size yourself up" for a helmet online.

Thanks for reading.

[sabres48 0]

Coincidenally i am reading a book about Andrew Carnegie, the steel tycoon of the late 19th century. One of his quotes is:

"Money pollutes the business atmosphere, yet it is the very fuel that powers it in all walks. Eternally, social darwinism will determine the weak from the strong, and contour the path of the consumer, whos monetary ideaology will repeat recession, depression and so forth"

I know you guys arent idiots, or at least not most of you, so ill let you make your own conclusions, however its fairly obvious what he means.

[ExitTwoEighty 7]

Some online etailers do not charge tax when you're out of state. Also they give free shipping if you spend over X amount of dollars. That alone could save me 20-30 bucks off new skates. Also, not everyone bakes their skates.

You also don't need a first sharpening... Oh but you can get one of those hockeygiant special sharpenings for $5.

right.... I didn't say you don't need a first sharpening. <_<

using darkstar's numbers..

skates = 270 no tax, no shipping, no baking + 12 sharpening = $282

or $331.70

$50 bucks is a big difference. That's just me, I'm old fashioned and don't bake my skates. And I KNOW what size I'm buying when I buy skates online. I've deviated brands and didn't like it so now I stick to one brand. Now *if* I wanted to try on skates before purchasing them online, I would just go to a major sporting retailer, and try the lesser models of those brands. Sure, they aren't knowledgeable about hockey products, but that's what MSH is for. That way, I wouldn't get the pissy LHS employee staring at me.

you're supposed to pay taxes on online purchases even outside of your state. just because the store doesn't charge you, doesn't mean you don't have to pay it.

and when the newer skates come out (i'll give nike bauer as an example), the size and fitment don't change? what about the one90, supreme 70, and the XXXX? they all seem to be different than previous models. if your local hockey shop full of pissy employees goes out of business, how would you know your size? shipping the skates back and forth to the e-tailer at your cost? pretty soon you'd be spending more.

I believe online tax laws vary from state to state. I understand states are pushing for it but I don't think it's effective yet.

From hockeygiant's website:

"As a web based company, we are required to charge state and local sales tax on orders shipped to states where we have stores."

The second paragraph here:

http://tinyurl.com/8s99e

Edit: I'm wrong about this. But this is similar to downloading music.

The major retailers always have the lowest and second lowest end skates of every year's model when they come out where I'm from. Now if the sizes changed with the year, the lower end stuff would follow the current year's models. I'm not familiar with Bauer so I wouldn't know. Also, why would Bauer change their skate sizes so damn much? isn't that an inconvenience for everyone? Is it just Bauer? I wouldn't be stupid enough to play musical chairs with my skate size. There's always friends skates to try on.

[Chadd 916]

Coincidenally i am reading a book about Andrew Carnegie, the steel tycoon of the late 19th century. One of his quotes is:

"Money pollutes the business atmosphere, yet it is the very fuel that powers it in all walks. Eternally, social darwinism will determine the weak from the strong, and contour the path of the consumer, whos monetary ideaology will repeat recession, depression and so forth"

I know you guys arent idiots, or at least not most of you, so ill let you make your own conclusions, however its fairly obvious what he means.

A major reason the US economy is in the dumper right now is the current "race to the bottom" we see in every industry. Everyone is concerned with numbers that make investors happy and not the numbers that contribute to the overall US economy. Sure, you may increase your earnings by 2% by outsourcing a major portion of your staff, but in the long run it damages the overall US economy by putting more people out of work. Wal-mart is prospering and the stock market is doing well but the "real economy", the every day lower and middle class families are not doing well at all.

As applied to hockey, you can save a couple bucks on major purchases but in the long run it cuts down your options. You prop up a company that has no local involvement in hockey in your area (people in so cal excluded). Most shops around here employ kids who play hockey, put together deals for local teams and have learn to play packages that help tykes get into the game. Those things are gone when that local hockey shop turns into a sharpening and tape shop. That makes it harder for a kid to get into the game and is bad for the sport overall.

If your LHS is bad or really ripping people off, you have to buy online. I do now because I have no choice but I would prefer to have a quality local shop. If you aren't going to buy anything from your LHS, at least have the decency to not use them as a fitting room for whatever online superstore you choose.

[sc37 0]

Coincidenally i am reading a book about Andrew Carnegie, the steel tycoon of the late 19th century. One of his quotes is:

"Money pollutes the business atmosphere, yet it is the very fuel that powers it in all walks. Eternally, social darwinism will determine the weak from the strong, and contour the path of the consumer, whos monetary ideaology will repeat recession, depression and so forth"

I know you guys arent idiots, or at least not most of you, so ill let you make your own conclusions, however its fairly obvious what he means.

You mean the idiot who can't spell ideology correctly when trying to sound smart? :P

Either way, there's always going to be online shoppers and LHS supporters...just stop stealing from the LHS to support your tycoons.