*Breaking News* Composites reason for scoring decline

[thejackal 46]

didnt macinnis use the orginial response for a while? did he end up switching back?

what can i say, that article is full of hulls

[Rustpot 1]

One of the bigger problems with wood sticks is the lack of versatility, in my opinion. There are maybe a half dozen woodies that are tall enough for me to use, which limits me to maybe 10 curves. Add to that the fact that most of them have either big-mid Coffey/P88 hooks or a <=5 lie, I can use maybe one wood stick currently in production.

I can use any shaft, so long as I find one 6 lie, mid/mid-heel to stick in it. Plenty more blades come with my requirements than anything else.

The only reason I currently use a OPS is because I got it in like-new condition for $30 here. I can't even get a comp blade for that cheap.

Maybe the same is to be said about these pros and wood sticks. There are so many variables that go into the wood- grain, age, moisture, imperfections, etc. All of that can be more easily controlled with a composite stick that is made from nothing more than foam and sheets of man-made fibers. Consistency from stick to stick (human error in production notwithstanding) is so spot-on, and being able to change flex and torsion characteristics is so much easier than with wood.

I still maintain the only reason sticks break so often is because they compromise durability for weight, and they compromise durability to sell more sticks and make more profit. Guys are still skating with the original Synergy, Z-bubble, T-flex, etc that get used hard for 10 years.

[DarkStar50 679]

Yes he did. Very nice guy to work with. Had the most horrific heel curve I've seen a defenceman use.

When the Blues practiced here in 98, I took an up an close look at Chopper's stick and blade. The blade is impossible to describe. I hsd never seen anything like it before. Think Lidstrom blade and then push it out another 3" off the shaft. The strength in his wrists, forearms, and arms to control that blade must be unreal.

[Chadd 916]

I also remember them putting some inserts into the hosel area of those Responses in an effort to reinforce his sticks.

[hockey_is_hard 0]

"But where is that shot going? If it's on the net, it may well be 20 mph faster than its counterpart from a wooden stick and may therefore beat a goalie when another shot wouldn't. But composite sticks are nowhere near as accurate as wooden sticks. So any gain from speed is negated by the lack of accuracy."

Where did they come up with this idea from??? Practice improves accuracy, not stick type... I could be consistently accurate shooting with a broom if I practiced enough. If you use the same stick/curve for a couple thousand shots, you're going to be able to put it where you want it most of the time. What its made out of won't change that, as you'll have already learned to compensate for it when you're aiming your shot.

[Chadd 916]

"But where is that shot going? If it's on the net, it may well be 20 mph faster than its counterpart from a wooden stick and may therefore beat a goalie when another shot wouldn't. But composite sticks are nowhere near as accurate as wooden sticks. So any gain from speed is negated by the lack of accuracy."

Where did they come up with this idea from??? Practice improves accuracy, not stick type... I could be consistently accurate shooting with a broom if I practiced enough. If you use the same stick/curve for a couple thousand shots, you're going to be able to put it where you want it most of the time. What its made out of won't change that, as you'll have already learned to compensate for it when you're aiming your shot.

Originally, OPS were supposed to improve your release, not overall velocity. The shot gets away more quickly and beats the goalie because of that, not because it's faster.

[tro 4]

Such a dumb ass article, scoring is down because goalies are bigger and better, simple. Strachan though feels they could wake Gump Worsely up, plop him in a game and he would be the best in the league.

I watch the NHL Classic games 1 or 2 times a week, and a guy will come down along the boards just inside the blue line, look at a goalie with tons of holes in him, take a snapper and the goalie does a big akward movement and he SCORES.

I have ditched OPS and went back to tapered with wood blade, due to the lack of feel I think I get with the comp blade, so yeah I agree with the lack of feel. But in know way is OPS responsible for lack of goals and if you are going to write an article have some stats or reasearch to back it up.

Strachan is such a joke though, as everyone knows, he has never touched a stick, didn't talk to MacInnis or Gretz, those comments were made elsewhere and he didn't talk to one current player.

[Jarick 5]

How did I know that Al Macinnis was going to be in the first two paragraphs of the article?

Haven't read it, but here's my take: I'm not a strong guy, and I need to use intermediate sticks to flex on wristers. When I use intermediate sticks to flex the wristers, they are MUCH more powerful and come off quicker. When I use wood sticks, I can't flex worth a damn and the shots slide along the ice.

Maybe I'll pick up a junior wood stick and see if that helps, but at that point, I think I'm losing the benefits of a wood stick in the first place.

[TCsnipes9 0]

I also remember them putting some inserts into the hosel area of those Responses in an effort to reinforce his sticks.

I remember that too. I vaguely remember hearing it ran down into where the shaft and blade come together as well.

[mrusse01 0]

Al Strachan is one of the biggest douche bags in the hockey world, and this is one of the dumbest articles on the game I've read in a long time.

OPS are superior to wood sticks, and if you want proof take a look at the what the overwhelming majority of pro and semi-pro players are using.

We can sit here and discuss personal preference all day, but by FAR the most compelling evidence in the case against wood sticks is that they have all but disappeared from the highest levels of play.

[ScottMan 0]

Do you guys remember the Bauer wood sticks a long time ago that were "fiber reinforced" (like many now) and were black with the gold Bauer and some red accents? Sorry...vague, I know. I think they were 3050 or 5030 or something like that?

Anyway, I thought those were perfect. They were very light for a wood stick with the feel you wanted, for ice, and especially for roller with the lighter puck. I loved those. I bought up a bunch of them and felt I played much better in ice and roller with them. I disagree with the article about composite being evil, but for me, I'm better with more feel and less flex.

Anyone know what I'm talking about and if they make anything similar now?

[mack 44]

Marz-

It was a blonde wood stick, like a Sher-Wood uh...5030. Or something.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

It's all about the quicker release a tapered shaft and a composite blade. The puck gets off the blade quicker.

[Cue 0]

Do you guys remember the Bauer wood sticks a long time ago that were "fiber reinforced" (like many now) and were black with the gold Bauer and some red accents? Sorry...vague, I know. I think they were 3050 or 5030 or something like that?

Anyway, I thought those were perfect. They were very light for a wood stick with the feel you wanted, for ice, and especially for roller with the lighter puck. I loved those. I bought up a bunch of them and felt I played much better in ice and roller with them. I disagree with the article about composite being evil, but for me, I'm better with more feel and less flex.

Anyone know what I'm talking about and if they make anything similar now?

I think those were the Bauer 3000 or 3030's, did it look something like this:

bauer 3000

bauer 3030

[ScottMan 0]

^^^Yes, I'm almost certain that's it! I just couldn't find it. Thanks!

[Abubaca 0]

Anyone know what I'm talking about and if they make anything similar now?

I love the CCM Vector Glass Fibre sticks. I'll admit, I've become a composite whore myself, but I still love those CCM glass fibres. ....I've actually thought about going back to 'em.

In general, and this is coming from a 20 veteran of the game, but you can't compare the "feel" of a composite and wood/fiberglass. SO much more response with the wood.... ....but again, I'm a whore. I currently use a composite too.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Marz-

It was a blonde wood stick, like a Sher-Wood uh...5030. Or something.

[mack 44]

Well crap, I just checked the pics I saw advertised as "Gretzky's final game" and they're from his final game at MLG. You know, the good garden. The only thing for certain I know is that he had no taste in sticks when he went away from the chrome.

[DarkStar50 679]

Like that really hurt his game.

[mack 44]

Well according to his stance composites don't help and he should have stayed with the old Titans. Who knows what kind of numbers he would have racked up if he kept with wood the last ~10 seasons.

[tro 4]

Gretz should do commercials for 87 Mustangs rather than the 07, technology goes and ruins everything.

[wallin2199 0]

well since gretzky feels that wood sticks are better...i think im going to go out and grab some white nikes, hespeler gloves that go up to my bicep and a jofa bucket, because i will immediately be able to score better

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Gotta love how he says that about composite sticks, yet has zero problem with Thermablade being in the NHL.

Yeah, that was his credibility going out the window.

[precursor 0]

Gotta love how he says that about composite sticks, yet has zero problem with Thermablade being in the NHL.

Yeah, that was his credibility going out the window.

You beat me to it, and I can't believe it took someone 4 pages to get to that point. IMHO the thermablade is gimmick, and he's supporting it. Changing wood to composite material isn't anywhere near as bad as what their trying to pull what that device. Big Wayne can get the big middle

[Abubaca 0]

You guys are reading WAY to much into his comments. The Jofa helmet and hespeler gloves obviously won't hurt OR improve your game. The thermoblades, while gimmicky won't HURT your game either. The 87 Mustang isn't up to spec of course with the '07, but there's LOTS of people who would argue that quality wise, the 87 was a much better car, minus of course the new technology. Yes, I realize your comments were made sarcastically, but I think you're mis-representing what he's saying.

there IS something to be said about the difference in sticks. Now I won't begin try and convince you that composites are crap, and that everyone should go back to wood, but it's certainly a debatable point. Again, I said DEBATABLE.

If you take all this stick talk away, and simply look at the player's talents, obviously everyone will be different. Some guys thrive on blasts from the point, some guys thrive on close quarters stick work and pinpoint accuracy. There's no argument that the composite will provide a harder shot, but you can certainly make a point that there's more feel with wood. Again, not at all trying to say composites are crap, I'm just saying there IS something to these people who go out on a limb and wish for the good ole days of wood.

I think we can all agree that from the very first years all the way to the NHL, puck control, accuracy and stickhandling are FAR more important (in general) that shot speed. Well, the only thing that I think is far and away the hands down winner between sticks, is that the composite provides a harder shot. ...and didn't we all just agree that's of lesser importance than other "stick" skills?

Not saying everyone should ditch the composites, I'm just saying there's a lot more to this topic than a lot of you want to admit. ;)