ONE95 vs S15 - Puck Impact Tests

[Chadd 916]

I'd like to see them do that to a Kor. I wear shift 1 and I have developed the horrible habit of sometimes using my feet to block pucks if I have no other recourse. They are that rigid in the unibase... Conversely, When I had my pureflys, I would bitch whenever guys threw passes into my skates since everything got transferred to my feet in those.

I paid dearly for that practice when I switched from Kors back to my S500s.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

for the whole thinking crumpling is good.... that only works if there's a cavity for whatever to crumple into. car, its the engine compartment, or deflecting outwards. tennis ball, it's towards the core of the ball. These skates sit right on top of your foot, if it crumpled, the impact would be spread out less and break your fricken foot.

[JR Boucicaut 3808]

I've seen that machine in action at St-Jerome and it is pretty cool. They test product at different variables, it's kinda scary when it goes off too...and obviously leaves some really cool video. I saw the facemask test.

[lb33knight 0]

I asked my sales rep to send me a copy of the video when I saw it a while back. He told me that the reps were under strict instructions not to pass it out so I guess someone smuggled it out. He had a few other videos too but for the life of me I can't remember what they were of. This was the one that really stood out though.

[BK 0]

for the whole thinking crumpling is good.... that only works if there's a cavity for whatever to crumple into. car, its the engine compartment, or deflecting outwards. tennis ball, it's towards the core of the ball. These skates sit right on top of your foot, if it crumpled, the impact would be spread out less and break your fricken foot.

Ummm. No.

You using the "crumple zone" arguement doesn't work here. The entire boot ruffles after being hit with the puck. Its like having a car that the entire thing is a "crumple zone".. You being a part of it. Your bones aren't jello. They break, not bend.

[Gwyren 0]

for the whole thinking crumpling is good.... that only works if there's a cavity for whatever to crumple into. car, its the engine compartment, or deflecting outwards. tennis ball, it's towards the core of the ball. These skates sit right on top of your foot, if it crumpled, the impact would be spread out less and break your fricken foot.

Ummm. No.

You using the "crumple zone" arguement doesn't work here. The entire boot ruffles after being hit with the puck. Its like having a car that the entire thing is a "crumple zone".. You being a part of it. Your bones aren't jello. They break, not bend.

A crumple zone is designed to turn energy imparted by an impact into plastic deformation. Or, in simpler terms, when a crumple zone is hit hard enough is is supposed to bend enough that it does not return to its original shape. The permanent deformation is what absorbs the energy and, in the case of a car, keeps a lot of the impact energy from being transfered to the occupants.

In the case of a skate...well, I am not sure a crumple zone would work considering your foot's proximity to the body of the skate.

Interesting to see the differences in how the two skates react to the impact. Also, did you notice the difference in the deflection of the blade/blade holders?

~works to shove the geek back into the bottle~

[TomMc#4 0]

yeah maybe ur right..

but i still can't see where the energy goes.. just like how skate makers say they make outsoles really stiff for better energy transfer to the ice, if the boot is stiff doesn't that make it better for energy transfer to the foot?

im pretty sure chadd commented on this but here's my little bit. A stiffer boot disperses energy better due to its structural integrity whereas a softer boot is less efficient at this and so energy transfers to your foot in a more concentrated spot instead of over a larger suface area. So basically, yes energy is transferred to your foot no matter what. However the stiffness and structural integrity of the materials determine the area over which this energy is dispersed. I wouldnt simply say that protection was determined by stiffness. Older more traditional stiffer skates were simply more protective due to the increased number of layers and thickness, whereas more modern skates are more protective due to materials.

With regards to ppl having bad habits, i picked up the habit of blocking shots whilst wearing my 1500's and s15s. then after my s15s broke i reverted back to a pair of supreme 8000's temporarily, blocked a shot and damn near broke my ankle!

[DarkStar50 680]

I've seen that machine in action at St-Jerome and it is pretty cool. They test product at different variables, it's kinda scary when it goes off too...and obviously leaves some really cool video. I saw the facemask test.

I have also seen the machine run the face mask test in St. Jerome. If you saw what it does to a wire face mask in person, you would think twice about wearing just a visor. The test for wire cages is that nothing(paint/chrome finish) can flake off the cage when it is hit by the puck. It sounds like a mini-cannon when the puck is shot.

[Law Goalie 147]

Is it just a high-end Boni machine, or something more sinister?

[jimmy 194]

In my dumber days, I use to wear a fibreglass face mask that was molded to my face. There was no foam between the mask and my face. When hit by a puck, the energy was dispursed through the whole mask, not concentrated in one spot.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

for the whole thinking crumpling is good.... that only works if there's a cavity for whatever to crumple into. car, its the engine compartment, or deflecting outwards. tennis ball, it's towards the core of the ball. These skates sit right on top of your foot, if it crumpled, the impact would be spread out less and break your fricken foot.

Ummm. No.

You using the "crumple zone" arguement doesn't work here. The entire boot ruffles after being hit with the puck. Its like having a car that the entire thing is a "crumple zone".. You being a part of it. Your bones aren't jello. They break, not bend.

ummmm. nice try at reading, better luck next time.

he was suggesting there was a crumple zone, which there is not. my point was it would have zero space to crumple, so it would "break your fricken foot" as I said. i was in agreement with you, read what I wrote.

If the entire boot is one solid piece pushing you foot, the force is spread out, minimizing risk of fracture.

[mew1838 0]

I think the best way to do this test is to have someone actually in the skates when the puck is shot. Just let it be voluntary.

[oliverloran 0]

It's intresting why it hasn't been made in a 45 degree view so that the sides could be seen, so im not assured that it was hit in the same spot on both skates. Othervise, i don't know what materials are used in the One 95 skate, but for the S15 the temperature do makes sense, because on lower temperatures composite materials become stiffer. And how could a brand new skate can be compared to a used one?

[TBLfan 25]

Like it's been said the energy will be transfered to a larger area because of the stiffness of the boot. A hard force over a small area results in more energy put in that area, of course if the energy is over a larger area the force is more spread out.

The crumple zone idea wouldn't work in a skate because there is no "space" for the skate to crumple, it has to withstand more than one hard impact and pucks don't hit THAT hard that there needs to be a crumple zone.

Some tanks use explosives that go off when the metal is struck with artillery, it directs the explosion out so that the inside compartment doesn't get damaged. This, again, is not a good idea for skates. :P

[sjsharks11 0]

is it really that good to have a boot that doesn't flex to the shot? i may be wrong but isn't it just like how a car has to have the crumple zone to absorb impact, if it doesn't all the force goes to the driver.. so if the one95 doesn't flex does it mean that all the force goes into the foot?

just got my s15 yesterday haha so could just be in denial

maybe not but i couldn't imagine it would be good to have the entire boot fold over on itself either

[Shark#81 0]

Best protection is to have a skate built like a helmet or goalie mask - that is a carbon fiber or hard composite outer, high quality energy absorbing foam inside.

Build it right and you'll have more forward flex available than the softest of boots.

With pucks ripping around the rink, and all those foot injuries, I am surprised there hasn't been a revolt.

[theWB 2]

Darkstar,

Were you at the sales meeting a couple weeks ago at Andover Country Club in Mass? I remember NBH showing this video along with the mask durability one and another that had a flex machine flexing both skates. I found that video the most interesting.

[DarkStar50 680]

theWB,

I saw the videos at the sales meeting in Marco Island in Florida in October. They are all very impressive. The tests that all the different products are put through in R D & D, are interesting and amazing. Some may find it easy to believe that NBH is just blowing smoke up your ass with these videos. I prefer to believe that they are shown as demonstrations of the actual testing that is done long before any product makes it to retail. Think how many times these tests are done to product before the product moves along in the production stages. These tests are done over and over to insure quality levels are met. There is another machine that takes a OPS and simply flexes it over and over and over again. The machine is measuring durability, flex zones, strength of materials, and repetitions of use by constantly performing this test. The machine that shoots pucks into masks and the side of skates is also impressive. There is no random shooter performing this task. It is a machine. The machine is shooting the puck in the same spot on both boots, no matter how it appears or what you think. NBH needs the verification of their product by performing the test on both products in the exact same place. The machine that flexes the skate boot backwards and forwards constantly is also amazing. Here is something that can test the stress levels on boots at a constant pressure over a given period of time. This is not a random "take these skates for a spin" and tell us what you think. They have quantifiable numbers to work with given the results generated by the machine.

All the companies are doing this, I hope. I don't think its fair to knock NBH given that they are the only one to share this info with dealers. Easton does some of this, too. I have seen some of their videos sent to their sales force to inform and demonstrate product. While the Big Three do not want to let each other know exactly what they are doing, it is positive that some of this info has worked its way through the pipeline here to MSH. Simply put, give credit where credit is due.

[yipperzz 28]

i know it's hard to say now that we've seen the comparisons...but how would you guys rate the s15 as far as protection? i thought it was one of the better skates out there on the market (protection wise)?

[mew1838 0]

Why didn't NBH compare the one95 to the XXXX? Afraid to make their own product look bad?

[TomMc#4 0]

regardless of what the video makes the s15 look like, i know for a fact that the s15's are very protective. i have taken many a shot and even intentionally blocked shots and never felt anything. the only thing i can think of from the video is that the s15 boot is dispersing the energy around the boot to lower the impact on the actual foot as it made from one piece. if the video is a reflection on protectiveness then gawd dang those one95 are safe lol

[Keith 0]

that parabolic steel undoubetedly flexes more in the clamp too.

[DarkStar50 680]

Why didn't NBH compare the one95 to the XXXX? Afraid to make their own product look bad?

NBH is showing the comparison between the two composite skates on the market. The Vapor XXXX is not a composite skate.

[sdomm 0]

How many people have been seriously injured after getting hit in the foot with a puck? I'm talking broken ankle not a nasty bruise that makes skating in the third period a bit tough. I'm all about a stiff skate, but how much stiffer can you get than the s15 and one90.....any skate where a sales rep tells me that unless i bake it several times it will never break in is stiff enough in my opinion.

[LkptTiger 1]

How many people have been seriously injured after getting hit in the foot with a puck? I'm talking broken ankle not a nasty bruise that makes skating in the third period a bit tough.

I've seen a lot of guys suffer breaks/fractures from shots (or just really hard passes that catch the right spot) to the foot, and have experienced it myself. There are a LOT of bones in the foot - crack one and skating effectively can range anywhere from difficult to damn near impossible.