Another school shooting

[Lfntn10 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/14/universit...ting/index.html

Happened just like 20 minutes ago, but this is getting ridiculous

CNN) -- At least two people have been shot and several injured at Northern Illinois University outside Chicago, CNN affiliates are reporting.

Ambulances line up at Northern Illinois University after a shooting.

The gunman who opened fire in a lecture hall is dead according to DeKalb police, the Chicago Sun-Times is reporting.

The lecture hall is Cole Hall, reports say. The shooting occured shortly after 3 p.m. ET.

A local hospital tells CNN affiliate CLTV that it expects to receive 15 patients and have so far treated at least two.

The University has ordered its student body to seek shelter and canceled classes Thursday.

"Its has been confirmed that there has been a shooting on campus and several people have been taken away by ambulance," the school said in a posting on its DeKalb campus Web site. "All classes are canceled on the DeKalb campus. People are urged not to come to campus."

DeKalb is 65 miles west of downtown Chicago and 45 minutes southeast of Rockford

[Engine37 0]

What in the living hell is wrong with people?!

[usahockey22 0]

This is actually the fourth school shooting in the united states in the last WEEK.

Schools need to get tough on these lunatics...single entry/exit points in each building with a permanent, armed guard and metal detector is now a necessary evil for public schools. I don't like the idea, but it's certainly better than the alternative, which is kids getting gunned down at the will of crazed killers.

[TBLfan 25]

That's a bit much, imagine how much it would cost... I know putting a price tag on human lives is hard to do but a school has to be able to run. It's not cheap running a University. At my school, there is a REAL police station that is deticated to crime prevention and capturing those offenders. I mean REAL police, they aren't security guards, they are sworn in officers. 3 min reaction time, most areas in the Tampa bay are are 15 min average, more than likely longer. The best thing you can do is make them more well known. With all the schools out there(my school alone has 4 campus locations and over 46,000 students), it's impossible to police every school military style.

What we really need is more responsible parents.

[Monty22 821]

What in the living hell is wrong with people?!

What we really need is more responsible parents.

QFT

[Rustpot 1]

Like TBL said, my campus has a full-time station of State Troopers whose sole job is to police the campus. The worst we've had in my 3 years are sexual crimes at parties, minimal grand theft, graffiti.

I'm also on a campus of 6,000 students over an hour and a half from the nearest major city in Michigan. A campus that size and response time for the 24/7 police is well under 5 minutes.

I also keep a shotgun in my apartment, though it's there for shooting in the trap club not home defense. I was not happy when they mandated all firearms needed to be kept in the police station (on campus apartment) after the VT shooting, and it's one of the factors that's leading me to move off-campus and invest some hard-earned cash in a pistol and a CPL/CCW.

Thoughts and prayers to the victims.

[Monty22 821]

Like TBL said, my campus has a full-time station of State Troopers whose sole job is to police the campus. The worst we've had in my 3 years are sexual crimes at parties, minimal grand theft, graffiti.

I'm also on a campus of 6,000 students over an hour and a half from the nearest major city in Michigan. A campus that size and response time for the 24/7 police is well under 5 minutes.

I also keep a shotgun in my apartment, though it's there for shooting in the trap club not home defense. I was not happy when they mandated all firearms needed to be kept in the police station (on campus apartment) after the VT shooting, and it's one of the factors that's leading me to move off-campus and invest some hard-earned cash in a pistol and a CPL/CCW.

Thoughts and prayers to the victims.

Money well spent. Everyone is responsible for their own personal safety.

[usahockey22 0]

I agree on the gun ownership and concealed carry, but campuses and other public places are usually gun-free zones, which makes them a great target for killers. Considering all of the drugs and booze on campus, adding guns to the mix is an understandable worry...hence why I think a dedicated armed guard in each building would be the next-best option.

It would be an added expense, but large state universities usually have quite a steady cash flow and could easily afford it. Public schools have a duty to provide safe school environments for students, and that means armed guards if the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to students on school zones.

[Rustpot 1]

but large state universities usually have quite a steady cash flow and could easily afford it.

Think again. Some larger campuses have upwards of 100 buildings. Mine has 15 not counting the residence halls and smaller municipal/grounds buildings and we're already straining the budget even with state funding, grants, tuition, etc.

But yes, college/university campuses are carry-free zones, and federally mandated as such. I currently don't feel unsafe to the point I would want to carry, but that doesn't mean the money won't lead me to a place where I'd regret not having properly prepared and protected myself/loved ones.

[usahockey22 0]

Well, most people do feel safe at their schools and are wary of using police-state tactics in order to keep the schools secure...until something like this happens at their school. Then it makes the news for a while, things die down, until it happens yet again. At some point there needs to be a real plan of action here. Sure, we do need better parenting, but that can't be mandated. The one thing that can be mandated is secured school buildings.

I actually went to the same middle school and high school with a girl who was shot dead at Virginia tech, and her family and all of the rest of the families thought that she and her classmates were quite safe moving down there. It's too late to undo the damage, but never too late to think ahead after learning a lesson (which we should have learned by now).

As for the money issue, something like this would/should be legislated by state and/or federal law before the universities would actually follow through with it. As such, the funding would mostly not come directly out of their pocket, but from tax revenues for public safety, just as are already used for police and swat teams, fire departments, disaster relief, etc. This of course would be for public universities...private colleges would likely follow suit on their own though.

[TBLfan 25]

I can tell you that my school has had two murders in it's history on campus. And I believe like 3-5 shootings, but nothing like this.

The reaction time and relative lack of crime ON campus(not necessarily around), leaves everything off the front page of the newspaper. If someone doesn't die and an offender is immediately apprehended the news barely cares.

I've talked to UP plenty of times, they do a good job at keeping the University safe. They aren't given their due credit because of what they patrol and the lack of news coverage.

[LegoDoom 0]

Seriously... I've been to a few different universities. What is so straining about college that would make this keep happening? The admission credentials?

[mack 44]

Red meat.

[All Torhs Team 0]

I dont think metal detectors for every school will come any time soon. People like to say incidents like this and VA Tech and Columbine are rare and won't happen again and that we are getting better at preparing. Thats just what we like to tell ourselves. There were even signs or notes (I foget what exactly)that NIU was reciving, hinting about a shooting. They had a little bit of stricter security with a gaurd on site for about a month. Then the NIU went back to normal. Did they stop paying an extra security guard because they thought "it wouldnt happen to them"?

Like it was said before - We cant put a price tag on human life. Which is why metal dectectors arnt a necessity. A school isnt going to make a profit on anything by providing these for the students/staff. A school is never going to know if it was worth installing all the new metal detectors.However they can provide stadiums and arena's. However horrible that sounds I think its true. Our society today is all about profit, am I wrong?

After VA Tech as far as I am aware there were no metal dectectors installed or safety cameras. The closest thing to extra security is stricter laws for who can purchase guns. So now a mentally ill person cant purchase a gun....does that mean they cant get one illegally?

This kind of thing isnt going to stop.

[henkka 0]

Like TBL said, my campus has a full-time station of State Troopers whose sole job is to police the bla bla bla... invest some hard-earned cash in a pistol and a CPL/CCW.

Money well spent. Everyone is responsible for their own personal safety.

And then something flips in your head and use the pistol for something else. I mean seriously, isnt this the problem in first case?

[Monty22 821]

Like TBL said, my campus has a full-time station of State Troopers whose sole job is to police the bla bla bla... invest some hard-earned cash in a pistol and a CPL/CCW.

Money well spent. Everyone is responsible for their own personal safety.

And then something flips in your head and use the pistol for something else. I mean seriously, isnt this the problem in first case?

No, the problem seems to be homicidal people, not inanimate objects.

Firearm ownership does not cause one to eventually “flip “and go on a killing spree.

[stock07 1]

Just another said story....At least he did himself a favor when he got done shooting eveyone else and offed himself...what a waste

[GekigangarIII 0]

And then something flips in your head and use the pistol for something else. I mean seriously, isnt this the problem in first case?

That's like saying we should all have to play deck hockey now because Simon kicked someone with his skate.

[Rustpot 1]

The hoops one must jump through to actually get a pistol and legally own and carry it actually do an alright job of sorting out the crazies. If I "snapped" and felt like killing a lot of people, a pistol would be the last thing I would use. This isn't the place to start discussing castle laws, the merits of education about firearms, the 2nd amendment and all that fun stuff that gets more debate than abortion though.

What makes people snap at college? Drunk shamings, getting kicked out of a frat, failing a class that is going to delay getting your major, coming to the realization that what you're doing is wrong for you.

I have a friend that is now in heavy therapy after changing majors 4 times and had a big "What will I do with my life? How will I ever get a job?" crisis. He could have easily went on a killing spree if he was that type of person, but we as friends recognized he was having problems, had an intervention and he's now getting his life back on track.

mack- PCU reference?

[Fire0nIce228 1]

Rustpot very nicely said.

Am I the only one who sometimes wishes these fuckheads didnt kill themselves, that way they could be apprehended and thrown in a dark 4x6 for the rest of their lives?

[Thockey17 1]

Am I the only one who sometimes wishes these fuckheads didnt kill themselves, that way they could be apprehended and thrown in a dark 4x6 for the rest of their lives?

Your not alone with your thought, but it does end up costing A TON of money to keep them bottled up in a cell.

[usahockey22 0]

And then something flips in your head and use the pistol for something else. I mean seriously, isnt this the problem in first case?

Gun laws do next to nothing in stopping criminals. Most gun criminals get their weapons through non-traditional or illegal routes that can't be regulated. (i.e. theft, black market, "borrowing" or purchasing from friends, etc). If you want a real example, look at Washington D.C. Handguns were banned there in 1976, and yet homicides peaked in 1991, and handguns in the last year were still used in 80% of homicides. Didn't stop criminals there.

(I recently wrote a paper on gun control, so I know the statistics pretty cold)

[chef_ducky 0]

Rustpot very nicely said.

Am I the only one who sometimes wishes these fuckheads didnt kill themselves, that way they could be apprehended and thrown in a dark 4x6 for the rest of their lives?

No. I wish that aswell

[AndTheySayChiCity 0]

reports say that he was a former Alumni of NIU.. graduated 06 and was currently a grad student at U of I Champaign-Urbana.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/15/universit...pect/index.html

Grady said that Kazmierczak was a student at University of Illinois in Champaign-Urbana and that there "were no red flags."

"He was an awarded student. He was someone that was revered by the faculty and staff and students alike," Grady said. Fellow students and faculty described Kazmierczak as "a fairly normal, unstressed person," he said.

Kazmierczak also served as vice president of the university's Academic Criminal Justice Association

He "had a very good academic record" and "was a very good student," Peters said, adding that there was "no indication" of any trouble involving him. Kazmierczak had no arrest record and no known history of mental illness, and he did have a valid state-required firearm ID card, so he had no problem buying the guns, one law enforcement source said.

you gotta be on the look out at all times...it could be anyone.

PS: i have a TON of friends that go to NIU.. so this past couple hours/day has been crazy.. trying to make sure all my friends are okay and spoken for, i couldn't get a hold of anyone for the majority of the night yesterday, that freaked the hell out of me. thankfully they're all okay. my thoughts and prayers go out to all of NIU.

[Jason Harris 31]

What we really need is more responsible parents.

I've long contended dual income families are a major culprit. With both parents working, kids are left to raise themselves for too much of the day.

Before we had children, we were living in a subdivision in San Diego when I looked outside and saw a pack of about 11 kids (between maybe 7 to 14) with rollerblades, sitting on our front wall. An hour later, they were sitting on another house's wall, and then finally a third house as I drove away. It was summertime and it was obvious they were bored, yet it was up to themselves to make sure they stayed out of trouble. A pack of 11 kids that age isn't a good recipe for staying out of trouble.

The Big D and I made a vow that wherever we moved, we had to buy a house where we could afford to have only one of us work, regardless who that turned out to be. It turned out she was earning much more than me, so she worked while I stayed at home. When the girls finally were in school full-time, I was able to go back to work, but even then I started a business so I'd be able to be home when they arrived home from school.

There are a lot of families in our town that have stay-at-home parents, and quite often you can tell the difference in the children. They're generally better behaved and more socially adept. It's not a guarantee, of course. Single parents can do a great job raising their children, as can dual income families, but I really believe the families that sacrifice financially for the 5-7 years while the kids are too young are generally giving their children a sense of protection.

When you think about it, all people are doing is sacrificing more income into their household during the early years. Big deal. So someone can't buy a new car as soon or the house with the jacuzzi tub in the bathroom. Those can come one day. In the interim, The Big D put it best when she said it's a nice feeling to have other parents tell her they never have a problem with having our daughters go over their houses, because the girls are so well behaved.