Hockey Skate profiling (contouring)

[Blueice 0]

Does anyone have any suggestions on what degree profile a youth should have on their skates ?

We've kept him at a 1/2" hollow, and he's been playing both O and D. Is there a "standard" radius for the front ?? the back ?? Looks like a 9 or 11 degree would be in between....is their a formula for height, age, weight, ability that could help....

THanks

[ShootsNScores93 0]

the skate guy I deal with doesnt put much stock in custom profiles because they are impossible to keep it if you get your skates sharpened by a person... if they are using a CAG ONE machine then maybe.... but the standard profile the skate has when you buy is should be fine....

[Blueice 0]

They are new Bauer XXV and they basically have no profile, they are WAY more square at the front...not for skating. My understanding is ALL blades have to be profiled, and most places just put a standard 9 on each....

Becasue every skater is different, manufactures are not in the buisness of contouring folks skates.

Who benefits from contouring?

In two words, all skaters. With very few exceptions, ice skate blades, as delivered from the factory are not ready for the ice, as it is economically impossible for any ice skate manufacturer to provide a matched pair of accurately profiled, balanced, and sharpened blades to meet an individual skater's preference. Instead most manufacturers provide an excess of blade stock and leave the actual shaping to the skate shop. A major contouring is theoretically required only once in the life of an ice skate blade. In practice, the more a skate is subject to poor sharpening, the more likely it is to require further contouring. It is a fact that there are skate sharpener "pretenders" who can and do remove a contour during one skate sharpening session.

Edited March 23, 2008 by Blueice

[Chadd 916]

Does anyone have any suggestions on what degree profile a youth should have on their skates ?

We've kept him at a 1/2" hollow, and he's been playing both O and D. Is there a "standard" radius for the front ?? the back ?? Looks like a 9 or 11 degree would be in between....is their a formula for height, age, weight, ability that could help....

THanks

I've seen charts and formulas but I think they're all pretty much bogus as there is significant variation in talent and preference. Smaller guys can go with deeper hollows and shorter radius, but why change if he isn't having a problem? Changes should be made to address issues or if you're looking for improvement in specific areas.

[Blueice 0]

Does anyone have any suggestions on what degree profile a youth should have on their skates ?

We've kept him at a 1/2" hollow, and he's been playing both O and D. Is there a "standard" radius for the front ?? the back ?? Looks like a 9 or 11 degree would be in between....is their a formula for height, age, weight, ability that could help....

THanks

I've seen charts and formulas but I think they're all pretty much bogus as there is significant variation in talent and preference. Smaller guys can go with deeper hollows and shorter radius, but why change if he isn't having a problem? Changes should be made to address issues or if you're looking for improvement in specific areas.

opps sorry - he had a pair of Bauers and we JUST bought him the Vapor XXV's, and he's at a point where the profiling could make a difference.(getting them done this week) We have no idea what his original skates we set out...he plays forward, but likes to tinker with D in lower house. thx

Edited March 23, 2008 by Blueice

[chippa13 1844]

the skate guy I deal with doesnt put much stock in custom profiles because they are impossible to keep it if you get your skates sharpened by a person... if they are using a CAG ONE machine then maybe.... but the standard profile the skate has when you buy is should be fine....

Bad advice, get your bad advice here.

Different brands come with different stock radii on their blades. To merely go with whatever comes on the skate is short changing yourself. But hey, maybe you're someone who can go from a 9' to an 11' foot radius without missing a beat.

[JJStripes 1]

In many cases the best contour or rocker for a new pair of skates is to have them match your old pair. I just went through this last week. I took the steel out of my old and new skates and used a sharpie to stencil the shape of the old on to the new. The guy who did the cross grinding did not get it exactly right the first time. I could feel that there was a little too much steel below my heals, so I brought them back and he took some more off. Now they are perfect. Point is, it might take some work, but keep trying until it feels right.

[Blade-Tek 1]

Actually, hockey skate blade manufacturers 'standard' process is to achieve about 17% of the blade length as a glide surface centered within the overall rocker. They DO NOT do a very good job in the manufacture, unlike figure skate producers.

Blades in fact are not precisely profiled or ice ready when new. Is this absolutely needed - Of course not, however it is recommended to have this done. . . for the skater's benefiet. (Of course this benefiets the pro-shops as well.

BlueIce - for a youth I suggest going for 17% glide surface; if the player is "D" get a straight up and down pitch, if he is forward go for a slightly forward pitch. . . . . Also avoid places that will simply grind off the toe to make it less "square" that is NOT PROFILING or rockering, that is ruining the skate blade - plain and simple.

:D

Have a happy day

[NATO 0]

What is the 'proper' way for a skate blade to be profiled?

I had mine profiled 25/45 (Defense) with a CAG-One profiler, this is what it looks like. Could I have feedback on what this looks like compared to what you guys consider good/bad? I've seen a guy skate with a LightSpeed2 blade which has had the toe and heel tapered off pretty severely, whereas mine still resembles the stock LS2 blade.

[Ngo_35 1]

The Cag one will not round off your heel and toe. If you really want to see what 25/45 looks like then you have to place your blade on a flat surface. When its on the flat surface you can "tilt" the blade back and fourth seeing that the mid-front part of your blade has more contact with the surface than the mid-back part of the blade. If you find it very difficult to tell you may have to run it through the cag again.

[Blade-Tek 1]

Great Photo NATO - However one cannot really tell from observing a photo. This is something that must be measured. The toe and heel not being ground away is GOOD.

NGO_35 is quite right, simply place the skate blade on a flat surface such as a steel table top or granite counter, you then can observe and measure fairly easily where the blade and the flat steel surface meet, in your case this should extend for 45mm. If you note & mark the start and end of where the blade and flat surface are in contact, this represents the glide surface and should equal 45mm. Your CAG profile number indicates that 25mm of the 45mm should be forward of the center of your blade, giving you an almost straight up pitch.

I am unaware of your skate blade length, however I will guess that it is somewhere around 255mm. (A size 6 1/2 skate perhaps ?)

Most "D-men" seeking profiles at my shop wish to maximize manouevreability; in a 255mm skate blade length I have found great success with a 20/40 profile.

A little less blade contact which provides the D-men a little extra in manouevreability. In contrast a forward with the same skate will likely desire more contact for increased speed and opt for the 30/50 profile, with a definate forward pitch.

Hope I wasn't too confusing?

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Just post, quit plugging your site.

[NATO 0]

Great replies guys, very helpful indeed and has certainly answered a lot of questions I had. You're close with regard to size, it's a size 7.5 - Blade length 263mm. I did wonder why I didn't have a single 'flat' of the blade, I could rock the skate back and forward, but I do notice now that the mid-front side is *slightly* longer than the mid-back section.

You mention that defensemen at your shop find a 20/40 profile good for manoeuvrability (255mm blade length). What's the equivalent profile you'd recommend for myself as a defensemen, 263mm blade length, or is 25/45 spot on?

I love reading into the more technical side of skating, so this is all great to know :)

[monoclub 5]

I too am very interested to hear more on the subject.

I read long ago that TUUK blades came in a standard radius suitable for the majority of players (just can't remember the size). As I understand it not many shops are set up or have qualified guys to adjust the profile of a blade so I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of hockey players are skating on the profile that the blade came in. Are other experienced guys supporting the above assertions and that most players are thereby skating on the wrong profile?

Outside of the systems developed by the big boys does anyone have an accurate method for profiling on a portable skate sharpener!

[SolarWind 23]

I'm not very experienced by any means, but I couldn't even skate on XXXX out of the box

I had them forward profiled (+1) 9' & it made a HUGE difference!

there was actually a topic a while back I started on heel lifts & profiling etc

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

I'm not very experienced by any means, but I couldn't even skate on XXXX out of the box

I had them forward profiled (+1) 9' & it made a HUGE difference!

there was actually a topic a while back I started on heel lifts & profiling etc

You're welcome.

[puckhoggy 0]

--------------

so I picked up a pair of Bauer TotalOne skates this weekend. I have the Superfeet insoles placed in.

My previous skates were a pair of Graf's with the Cobra 3000nt holders, and on top of that i had the blades contoured with a forward pitch.

Now my Questions is, what should i do with the TotalOnes? Obviously i am keeping the runners and holders, but should i get them contoured and what options should I take. I am relatively new to the whole concept of this topic, as I usually just went into the shop and asked for the forward pitch to my runners.

Thanks!

EDIT: and does the radius correlate to forward or else neutral pitch? or are pitch and radius independent?

Edited September 6, 2010 by puckhoggy

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I want to chime in here but have no idea where to start. There is so much bad information being given out.

JR whats going on???LOL

Most skate profiling is actually very logical and straightforward.

1. you never want to be on your heels

2. there is not need EVER to round off the toe and heel.EVER...slight blend yes round off NO!!!!!!

3. Your profile comes from what you do with the center of the blade.

JR Chadd feel free to agree to disagree here.

Been away for a while working with players this summer but am back for questions on this subject!

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

I agree with your points, Jeff.

Nobody listens to me anymore. Everyone wants a quintuple-radius nowadays.

[Shayno 1]

Ok....I have a question for JR, I have just gotten back into hockey(last year) after a 10 yr absennce....believe it or not I used CCM Tacks skates(with low end stock blades) before and loved them. I just bought Wade Belaks old skates(mission L7 pro stocks) with a heel lift. What should I tell the guy in the shop where i get them sharpened? I play forward, and like a slight forward pitch(+1)?? I guess. Should I tell the guy to shapen them to 0? Just want these skates to work for me, as I love the fit! I will have to replace blades soon as there is not much left, but can get a season or 2 out of whats there i think. Any idea's JR or any other expirienced guys? Would a pic help? If so i can add.

Thanks for any input gentlemen!

Cheers!

[jsykes 35]

I went from Grafs with a neutral profile blade to TOs.

In order to get the feel of my Grafs I had the blades profiled +2 and then had JR do a set of heel lifts for me which were 1.5mm. That got me back to close to the Graf feel with no special profile.

I think JR did the 1.5 lift since I told him I already had the runners profiled. In hindsight, I'd do the lift first, probably a 3mm and then go from there as it might alleviate the need for aggressive profiling on the runner.

But that is what worked for me. If you're Graf runners are already profiled forward, you may need a larger lift to get the same feel.

[puckhoggy 0]

I went from Grafs with a neutral profile blade to TOs.

In order to get the feel of my Grafs I had the blades profiled +2 and then had JR do a set of heel lifts for me which were 1.5mm. That got me back to close to the Graf feel with no special profile.

I think JR did the 1.5 lift since I told him I already had the runners profiled. In hindsight, I'd do the lift first, probably a 3mm and then go from there as it might alleviate the need for aggressive profiling on the runner.

But that is what worked for me. If you're Graf runners are already profiled forward, you may need a larger lift to get the same feel.

I guess i am using a heel lift, since im on superfeets right now. So do you recommend a forward profile, if i still feel uncomfortable during my inital skate? And what options are there for foward profiles? I thought there was just one....

[jsykes 35]

I would not consider superfeet a "lift." I have a lift installed between the heel of the holder and the boot so that it gives the entire boot a forward pitch.

[RussianPlayer 0]

So what is the proper terminology here.

Cag is called a profiler. However, I just read posts from "jimmy" who seems to have expereience with this stuff. He says Cag only puts a flat spot in the center.

Same I read in the manual. So, how is it considered to be a blade profiling?

Another things is I guess it's done manually using templates or maybe machines other that Cag? That actually contouring your whole blade to match a particular radius.

It's also done off a center of the blade, right?

What's the main difference here? Both seem to increase the ice to surface area...

[Mimizk 114]

Nobody can't say what profile is the best.

9'? 11'? 13'? 8'+12' combination? Flat center? There is no "best". Just there are better profiles for someone.

Just try. It's the best way to make sure what is the better profile for you.

If you couldn't feel any differences? It means you can skate with any profiles! It is so good talent. You don't need to worried about it.