2008 US Election Thread

[ponty 0]

I dont think Bush is as "hands-on" as McCain. Bush is the tyep of executve who tends to delegate things to other people and worry more about the overall big picture. McCain is still a maverick and his selection of Palin reflects this. She's a bit like McCain in the fact that she's not too concerned about bucking the party line and doing what she feels is right.. I believe the McCain/Palin ticket is very different than the Bush/Cheney ticket of previous years. Perhaps this is what the GOP needs to do to recover some of the voter base they've lost in the last 7 or 8 years.

My taxes being raised is a change I can live without.

I will be SHOCKED if McCain goes a term without raising taxes. With the mess we are in as a country I find that claim hard to believe.

"read my lips ... " Ah never mind ;)

I could see him trying to move forward without any tax increases, I believe he would be more likely to try and get closer to a balanced budget by cutting spending than by raising taxes. I don't see how Obama can hand out all of the money he has promised without raising taxes significantly and that would still result in higher budget deficits than McCain budgets.

I liked McCain a lot more eight years ago, but I believe his actions lately have simply been to ensure that he was able to get the nomination and shore up support from the fundie part of the party. I see McCain as someone who will make a deal to get some progress on a topic, like they used to do in Washington as opposed to the party warfare of the last dozen or more years. Sometimes you have to give something on one issue to get something on another, we haven't seen that in a long time. I don't see Obama having that type of willingness to deal. I see him as someone like Bush who wants to do things his way and his way only, then slander anyone who stands against his "vision".

I too like McCain a lot more 8 years ago as well and was disappointed in what I have been seeing out of him over the last year. I am not a big fan of Obama not spreading out the tax burden amoung all but thats another story.

Bottom line is that EITHER person will be much better than President cluster-f**k.

As for Bush, the Dems have done a pretty good job with their media campaign against him...I'll wait a few years before I pass judgement on the GWB presidency. Time and history has a way of bringing out the true story..

I make my own judgments based on my experiences and the ability to think for myself.

[chippa13 1844]

That's just crazy talk.

[epstud74 24]

I make my own judgments based on my experiences and the ability to think for myself.

Too bad more Americans chose not to think that way

[Gwyren 0]

My taxes being raised is a change I can live without.

www.factcheck.org

IF each nominee were to get there tax plans through Congress without modificiation, it seems, baced on what has been published so far, that Obama's plan will cause more Americans to pay less taxes than McCain's.

[Chadd 916]

I dont think Bush is as "hands-on" as McCain. Bush is the tyep of executve who tends to delegate things to other people and worry more about the overall big picture. McCain is still a maverick and his selection of Palin reflects this. She's a bit like McCain in the fact that she's not too concerned about bucking the party line and doing what she feels is right.. I believe the McCain/Palin ticket is very different than the Bush/Cheney ticket of previous years. Perhaps this is what the GOP needs to do to recover some of the voter base they've lost in the last 7 or 8 years.

The more I read about her the less I like her. She delivered some funny lines in her speech but I am not in favor of anyone who honestly thinks we should be teaching creationism in schools. She is as far to the right as any candidate the republicans have ever had, primary or general election. It's a shame that McCain couldn't go with any of his top three or four picks, all of whom were pro-choice by the way. I can only hope that those selections show he is merely paying lip-service to the fundies.

The problem is that you have roughly 40% of the country is going to pull the Republican lever and roughly 40% are going to pull the Democratic lever, no matter who the candidate are. How those candidates appeal to the middle 20% is going to dictate who wins the election. I honestly believe Obama is going to destroy McCain in the deabates, much the same way Kennedy destroyed Nixon. Where Nixon's responses were better but Kennedy's demeanor and inspirational tone earned him a win.

Again, the country does better when we stick in the middle rather than vacillating left and right every few years. The parties spend as much time trying to undo the work of the previous administration as they do trying to make actual progress. Then you have the "vision" problem. When someone is trying to bring about their vision, they are generally less likely to cut a deal and take partial progress. It often ends up in an all or nothing showdown that results in absolutely no progress being made at all.

remember if pro is the opposite of con, progress is the opposite of congress. yes, I stole that, it wasn't mine.

[epstud74 24]

I dont think Bush is as "hands-on" as McCain. Bush is the tyep of executve who tends to delegate things to other people and worry more about the overall big picture. McCain is still a maverick and his selection of Palin reflects this. She's a bit like McCain in the fact that she's not too concerned about bucking the party line and doing what she feels is right.. I believe the McCain/Palin ticket is very different than the Bush/Cheney ticket of previous years. Perhaps this is what the GOP needs to do to recover some of the voter base they've lost in the last 7 or 8 years.

The more I read about her the less I like her. She delivered some funny lines in her speech but I am not in favor of anyone who honestly thinks we should be teaching creationism in schools. She is as far to the right as any candidate the republicans have ever had, primary or general election. It's a shame that McCain couldn't go with any of his top three or four picks, all of whom were pro-choice by the way. I can only hope that those selections show he is merely paying lip-service to the fundies.

The problem is that you have roughly 40% of the country is going to pull the Republican lever and roughly 40% are going to pull the Democratic lever, no matter who the candidate are. How those candidates appeal to the middle 20% is going to dictate who wins the election. I honestly believe Obama is going to destroy McCain in the deabates, much the same way Kennedy destroyed Nixon. Where Nixon's responses were better but Kennedy's demeanor and inspirational tone earned him a win.

Again, the country does better when we stick in the middle rather than vacillating left and right every few years. The parties spend as much time trying to undo the work of the previous administration as they do trying to make actual progress. Then you have the "vision" problem. When someone is trying to bring about their vision, they are generally less likely to cut a deal and take partial progress. It often ends up in an all or nothing showdown that results in absolutely no progress being made at all.

remember if pro is the opposite of con, progress is the opposite of congress. yes, I stole that, it wasn't mine.

have the two ever debated before? I dont think the Republicans are afraid of an Obama/McCain debate, but a Palin/Biden debate could be difficult. Biden is an old hand at politics and this could perhaps get ugly. Similar to how Cheney eviscerated Edwards back in 2004. I could be selling Palin short, but I'm just basing this on her being a relative newcomer to the national political scene and Biden being part of the establishment on Capitol Hill. My views on Palin? I dont think she's as far to the right as you say she is. I believe she further right on some issues, but is a centrist on other issues. She's a hard read since she's not completely to the right on every issue.. As for creationism, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that she thinks Creationism should be taught as the accepted method of the evolution of mankind or as a counterweight to science? I highly doubt a woman with her education level (she is a college graduate after all) would believe that Adam and Eve sprung out of nowhere and Eve literally came from Adam's rib.. Then again, I was born and raised a Lutheran, unliike some of the Southern Evangelicals who tend to interpret the bible literally and forget the meaning of the word "parable." So I guess I have a hard time believing anyone of her stature or educational level would interpret creationism in that way..As if Darwin's theories did not exist etc..etc.. I'm not as well informed on her stance regarding Creationism, would you enlighten me?

[eric42434224 1]

As a financial professional, it will be interesting to see what changes tax-wise will happen if Obama is elected..Especially issues such as the estate tax etc.. Taxes are a good way to raise funds for the government, but the Dem tax/fiscal/trade policy has been hard on small businesses and farms. Which is why you wont see a lot of support amongst the rural populace of the midwest and west. It isnt because of ideological issues such as abortion and so on, but a lot of it has been economic. Carter's policies in the late 70s are a prime example..It is no small wonder that Mondale failed miserably in 1984 against Reagan with the same issues. Once he uttered that he'd start another grain embargo against the USSR and Eastern Europe, rural america voted against him.

Back to the Obama campaign..I realize taxes are a necessary evil, but I strongly feel that the Dems have a skewed view of what the "middle class" really is and if the estate tax put at the $1.5 million or so benchmark, it could hurt a lot of people. It needs to stay at $3 million or above, otherwise you're basically keeping families from being upwardly mobile. Also, if your grandparents/parents worked extremely hard all their lives to build up a sizeable nest egg to provide opportunities for the next generation..Why give the government so much of it? It would be a bitter pill to swallow even though it is an inheritance or "free money" as some people like to call it. A lot of the children of these people have worked on these family farms or small business all their lives, so I dont think it really is a "free lunch" as some people would like to call it.

The Estate Tax issue is a Red Herring. There are many ways to get around the Estate Tax issue including Life Insurance in an ILIT (Irrevocable Life Insurance Trust). It takes the Life Insurance out of the estate, and the tax free death benefit is used to offset any taxes due, including Income, Capital Gains, or estate.

[epstud74 24]

My taxes being raised is a change I can live without.

www.factcheck.org

IF each nominee were to get there tax plans through Congress without modificiation, it seems, baced on what has been published so far, that Obama's plan will cause more Americans to pay less taxes than McCain's.

Depends on how you see it I guess.. So how much more of the tab will wealthy/upper middle class Americans pay under Obama's new plan?

[chippa13 1844]

The problem is that you have roughly 40% of the voters are going to pull the Republican lever and roughly 40% are going to pull the Democratic lever, no matter who the candidate are. How those candidates appeal to the middle 20% is going to dictate who wins the election.

Slight fix, there are still too many that don't vote.

[epstud74 24]

As a financial professional, it will be interesting to see what changes tax-wise will happen if Obama is elected..Especially issues such as the estate tax etc.. Taxes are a good way to raise funds for the government, but the Dem tax/fiscal/trade policy has been hard on small businesses and farms. Which is why you wont see a lot of support amongst the rural populace of the midwest and west. It isnt because of ideological issues such as abortion and so on, but a lot of it has been economic. Carter's policies in the late 70s are a prime example..It is no small wonder that Mondale failed miserably in 1984 against Reagan with the same issues. Once he uttered that he'd start another grain embargo against the USSR and Eastern Europe, rural america voted against him.

Back to the Obama campaign..I realize taxes are a necessary evil, but I strongly feel that the Dems have a skewed view of what the "middle class" really is and if the estate tax put at the $1.5 million or so benchmark, it could hurt a lot of people. It needs to stay at $3 million or above, otherwise you're basically keeping families from being upwardly mobile. Also, if your grandparents/parents worked extremely hard all their lives to build up a sizeable nest egg to provide opportunities for the next generation..Why give the government so much of it? It would be a bitter pill to swallow even though it is an inheritance or "free money" as some people like to call it. A lot of the children of these people have worked on these family farms or small business all their lives, so I dont think it really is a "free lunch" as some people would like to call it.

The Estate Tax issue is a Red Herring. There are many ways to get around the Estate Tax issue including Life Insurance in an ILIT (Irrevocable Life Insurance Trust). It takes the Life Insurance out of the estate, and the tax free death benefit is used to offset any taxes due, including Income, Capital Gains, or income. If a more detailed explanation is needed, I will be glad to give one.

Please do give us a more detailed explaination...The estate tax issue is STILL an issue. It is not a red herring for many I believe, but yes..You can use an ILIT, but does it work for everyone? What if the person dies within three years of policy issuance?

[chippa13 1844]

I dont think Bush is as "hands-on" as McCain. Bush is the tyep of executve who tends to delegate things to other people and worry more about the overall big picture. McCain is still a maverick and his selection of Palin reflects this. She's a bit like McCain in the fact that she's not too concerned about bucking the party line and doing what she feels is right.. I believe the McCain/Palin ticket is very different than the Bush/Cheney ticket of previous years. Perhaps this is what the GOP needs to do to recover some of the voter base they've lost in the last 7 or 8 years.

The more I read about her the less I like her. She delivered some funny lines in her speech but I am not in favor of anyone who honestly thinks we should be teaching creationism in schools. She is as far to the right as any candidate the republicans have ever had, primary or general election. It's a shame that McCain couldn't go with any of his top three or four picks, all of whom were pro-choice by the way. I can only hope that those selections show he is merely paying lip-service to the fundies.

The problem is that you have roughly 40% of the country is going to pull the Republican lever and roughly 40% are going to pull the Democratic lever, no matter who the candidate are. How those candidates appeal to the middle 20% is going to dictate who wins the election. I honestly believe Obama is going to destroy McCain in the deabates, much the same way Kennedy destroyed Nixon. Where Nixon's responses were better but Kennedy's demeanor and inspirational tone earned him a win.

Again, the country does better when we stick in the middle rather than vacillating left and right every few years. The parties spend as much time trying to undo the work of the previous administration as they do trying to make actual progress. Then you have the "vision" problem. When someone is trying to bring about their vision, they are generally less likely to cut a deal and take partial progress. It often ends up in an all or nothing showdown that results in absolutely no progress being made at all.

remember if pro is the opposite of con, progress is the opposite of congress. yes, I stole that, it wasn't mine.

have the two ever debated before? I dont think the Republicans are afraid of an Obama/McCain debate, but a Palin/Biden debate could be difficult. Biden is an old hand at politics and this could perhaps get ugly. Similar to how Cheney eviscerated Edwards back in 2004. I could be selling Palin short, but I'm just basing this on her being a relative newcomer to the national political scene and Biden being part of the establishment on Capitol Hill. My views on Palin? I dont think she's as far to the right as you say she is. I believe she further right on some issues, but is a centrist on other issues. She's a hard read since she's not completely to the right on every issue.. As for creationism, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that she thinks Creationism should be taught as the accepted method of the evolution of mankind or as a counterweight to science? I highly doubt a woman with her education level (she is a college graduate after all) would believe that Adam and Eve sprung out of nowhere and Eve literally came from Adam's rib.. Then again, I was born and raised a Lutheran, unliike some of the Southern Evangelicals who tend to interpret the bible literally and forget the meaning of the word "parable." So I guess I have a hard time believing anyone of her stature or educational level would interpret creationism in that way..As if Darwin's theories did not exist etc..etc.. I'm not as well informed on her stance regarding Creationism, would you enlighten me?

There seems to be something amiss with the Adam and Eve story as relates to the first two of all mankind. If you read the story, you will see that they have two sons, Cain and Abel, and then Cain slays Abel. God drives Cain away and Cain is fearful that anyone who comes upon him will kill him. Now, if Adam and Eve were the first two people and to this point have only born two sons, who is Cain afraid of? Where did the other people come from? Who is the wife of Cain that magically appears in the story?

[epstud74 24]

I dont think Bush is as "hands-on" as McCain. Bush is the tyep of executve who tends to delegate things to other people and worry more about the overall big picture. McCain is still a maverick and his selection of Palin reflects this. She's a bit like McCain in the fact that she's not too concerned about bucking the party line and doing what she feels is right.. I believe the McCain/Palin ticket is very different than the Bush/Cheney ticket of previous years. Perhaps this is what the GOP needs to do to recover some of the voter base they've lost in the last 7 or 8 years.

The more I read about her the less I like her. She delivered some funny lines in her speech but I am not in favor of anyone who honestly thinks we should be teaching creationism in schools. She is as far to the right as any candidate the republicans have ever had, primary or general election. It's a shame that McCain couldn't go with any of his top three or four picks, all of whom were pro-choice by the way. I can only hope that those selections show he is merely paying lip-service to the fundies.

The problem is that you have roughly 40% of the country is going to pull the Republican lever and roughly 40% are going to pull the Democratic lever, no matter who the candidate are. How those candidates appeal to the middle 20% is going to dictate who wins the election. I honestly believe Obama is going to destroy McCain in the deabates, much the same way Kennedy destroyed Nixon. Where Nixon's responses were better but Kennedy's demeanor and inspirational tone earned him a win.

Again, the country does better when we stick in the middle rather than vacillating left and right every few years. The parties spend as much time trying to undo the work of the previous administration as they do trying to make actual progress. Then you have the "vision" problem. When someone is trying to bring about their vision, they are generally less likely to cut a deal and take partial progress. It often ends up in an all or nothing showdown that results in absolutely no progress being made at all.

remember if pro is the opposite of con, progress is the opposite of congress. yes, I stole that, it wasn't mine.

have the two ever debated before? I dont think the Republicans are afraid of an Obama/McCain debate, but a Palin/Biden debate could be difficult. Biden is an old hand at politics and this could perhaps get ugly. Similar to how Cheney eviscerated Edwards back in 2004. I could be selling Palin short, but I'm just basing this on her being a relative newcomer to the national political scene and Biden being part of the establishment on Capitol Hill. My views on Palin? I dont think she's as far to the right as you say she is. I believe she further right on some issues, but is a centrist on other issues. She's a hard read since she's not completely to the right on every issue.. As for creationism, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that she thinks Creationism should be taught as the accepted method of the evolution of mankind or as a counterweight to science? I highly doubt a woman with her education level (she is a college graduate after all) would believe that Adam and Eve sprung out of nowhere and Eve literally came from Adam's rib.. Then again, I was born and raised a Lutheran, unliike some of the Southern Evangelicals who tend to interpret the bible literally and forget the meaning of the word "parable." So I guess I have a hard time believing anyone of her stature or educational level would interpret creationism in that way..As if Darwin's theories did not exist etc..etc.. I'm not as well informed on her stance regarding Creationism, would you enlighten me?

There seems to be something amiss with the Adam and Eve story as relates to the first two of all mankind. If you read the story, you will see that they have two sons, Cain and Abel, and then Cain slays Abel. God drives Cain away and Cain is fearful that anyone who comes upon him will kill him. Now, if Adam and Eve were the first two people and to this point have only born two sons, who is Cain afraid of? Where did the other people come from? Who is the wife of Cain that magically appears in the story?

Well..people tend to forget it is a story.. Is the bible meant to be taken literally? I dont believe the bible was even intended to be a history book. Something 5000 years ago may take on a different meaning than it does today given the culture and location of the place/event.

[Bane 1]

Do we really want a president who's excuse for everything is "I was a POW damn it!" Even Palin played McCain's POW card in her speech. Being held captive in a POW camp and beaten does not qualify you for the presidency.

I love the remark about how Obama hasn't run anything. The ironic part is neither has McCain, not even a military command. The guy was shot down on his first mission.

I would love to have a viable third party candidate. American's need to realize that real change is a third party.

If you are going to post, at least back up your assertions with evidence. McCain's POW experience is not an excuse, it's an example of someone who suffered through a hardship most people couldn't even imagine.

You aren't even close on your "facts" about what McCain has run or when he was shot down. A simple Google search would have done wonders. Thanks for playing.

Her daughter does not even equate to the average underage, pregnant girl in America. I would keep the kid too, if I had the chance to be a VP's kid who can have any nanny and all the help I need. If her and her boyfriend get into financial trouble you can bet they will get bailed out by mommy, unlike the average American girl. There's a high probability that if mom wasn't powerful the daughter's decision would be different.

Your assertion is pure speculation. Having a baby pretty much ends her childhood and it is a very serious decision no matter what economic bracket you are in.

You state the being a POW is not an excuse, yet McCain uses it as one. He deflects every issue he can with some story about Hanoi. You should take your own suggestion and Google it.

On his military record, I'll let you make the decision. I should has said his first real mission. He was a training officer most of his career. Again take your own advice, google it. Read his own story in US News.

On the issue of the baby, I said high probability. That does not guarantee the decision would have been different, but there is certainly a chance it would be different.

To quote you "Thanks for playing"

You really believe this? I doubt McCain willingly goes overboard with his status as a POW. I believe he may have to use it as a political necessity which probably makes his stomach churn a little. I doubt many real veterans that are all gung ho and loud about their "heroism" in combat when they know thousands of others like them made the same sacrifices and many didnt come back at all. It was obvious that John Kerry was uncomfortable using his service record to tout his abilities as a potential POTUS/CIC. He had to out of political necessity and he was crucified for it which is a disgusting story unto its own. McCain served his country and spent 5 years as a POW in some of the most horrid physical and emotional conditions a human being could endure. It is utterly ridiculous to even make an argument against his military record..Training mission or not..1st or 23rd mission..Ludicrous..Your argument has no merit in my opinion

As a financial professional, it will be interesting to see what changes tax-wise will happen if Obama is elected..Especially issues such as the estate tax etc.. Taxes are a good way to raise funds for the government, but the Dem tax/fiscal/trade policy has been hard on small businesses and farms. Which is why you wont see a lot of support amongst the rural populace of the midwest and west. It isnt because of ideological issues such as abortion and so on, but a lot of it has been economic. Carter's policies in the late 70s are a prime example..It is no small wonder that Mondale failed miserably in 1984 against Reagan with the same issues. Once he uttered that he'd start another grain embargo against the USSR and Eastern Europe, rural america voted against him.

Back to the Obama campaign..I realize taxes are a necessary evil, but I strongly feel that the Dems have a skewed view of what the "middle class" really is and if the estate tax put at the $1.5 million or so benchmark, it could hurt a lot of people. It needs to stay at $3 million or above, otherwise you're basically keeping families from being upwardly mobile. Also, if your grandparents/parents worked extremely hard all their lives to build up a sizeable nest egg to provide opportunities for the next generation..Why give the government so much of it? It would be a bitter pill to swallow even though it is an inheritance or "free money" as some people like to call it. A lot of the children of these people have worked on these family farms or small business all their lives, so I dont think it really is a "free lunch" as some people would like to call it.

The real crime of the estate tax is what it does to small businesses. A parent works hard to create a family business and because they don't plan ahead far enough to put the business in the kid's names (currently I believe the rule goes 3 years back) then more often than not a family winds up selling off the business or much of its assets in order to pay the taxes on the worth of said business.

This is where the Dem party has lost the American public and previous elections...They should cater to these people, not the Code Pink or Moveon.org type idiots.. Who are the Dems preaching to really?

McCain is a patriot, and I don't think that is in dispute. But, It is pretty easy to see just how much McCain has used the POW excuse, just google it. I was in the military and served in the Gulf, does that make me qualified to be president? No it doesn't. I am not crucifying McCain for his record, I didn't crucify Kerry either. Both served our country in the military, but that also doesn't give anyone the right to use it as an excuse to dodge issues and questions. We should not challenge McCain's policies and ideals any less than anyone else, simply because he was a POW.

The following site has a pretty decent listing of McCain's use of the POW deflection including links to relevant news sources. http://bananafusion.blogspot.com/2008/08/m...pow-excuse.html

You are basically saying that because McCain was a POW he should have a free pass. I think that is preposterous.

[epstud74 24]

Where have I stated that being a POW=Free Pass?

[Bane 1]

Where have I stated that being a POW=Free Pass?

Your words were:

"McCain served his country and spent 5 years as a POW in some of the most horrid physical and emotional conditions a human being could endure. It is utterly ridiculous to even make an argument against his military record..Training mission or not..1st or 23rd mission..Ludicrous..Your argument has no merit in my opinion"

You essentially said that since he spent 5 years as a POW, I should not challenge his record. That to me equals free pass.

[chk hrd 164]

I dont think Bush is as "hands-on" as McCain. Bush is the tyep of executve who tends to delegate things to other people and worry more about the overall big picture. McCain is still a maverick and his selection of Palin reflects this. She's a bit like McCain in the fact that she's not too concerned about bucking the party line and doing what she feels is right.. I believe the McCain/Palin ticket is very different than the Bush/Cheney ticket of previous years. Perhaps this is what the GOP needs to do to recover some of the voter base they've lost in the last 7 or 8 years.

The more I read about her the less I like her. She delivered some funny lines in her speech but I am not in favor of anyone who honestly thinks we should be teaching creationism in schools. She is as far to the right as any candidate the republicans have ever had, primary or general election. It's a shame that McCain couldn't go with any of his top three or four picks, all of whom were pro-choice by the way. I can only hope that those selections show he is merely paying lip-service to the fundies.

The problem is that you have roughly 40% of the country is going to pull the Republican lever and roughly 40% are going to pull the Democratic lever, no matter who the candidate are. How those candidates appeal to the middle 20% is going to dictate who wins the election. I honestly believe Obama is going to destroy McCain in the deabates, much the same way Kennedy destroyed Nixon. Where Nixon's responses were better but Kennedy's demeanor and inspirational tone earned him a win.

Again, the country does better when we stick in the middle rather than vacillating left and right every few years. The parties spend as much time trying to undo the work of the previous administration as they do trying to make actual progress. Then you have the "vision" problem. When someone is trying to bring about their vision, they are generally less likely to cut a deal and take partial progress. It often ends up in an all or nothing showdown that results in absolutely no progress being made at all.

remember if pro is the opposite of con, progress is the opposite of congress. yes, I stole that, it wasn't mine.

have the two ever debated before? I dont think the Republicans are afraid of an Obama/McCain debate, but a Palin/Biden debate could be difficult. Biden is an old hand at politics and this could perhaps get ugly. Similar to how Cheney eviscerated Edwards back in 2004. I could be selling Palin short, but I'm just basing this on her being a relative newcomer to the national political scene and Biden being part of the establishment on Capitol Hill. My views on Palin? I dont think she's as far to the right as you say she is. I believe she further right on some issues, but is a centrist on other issues. She's a hard read since she's not completely to the right on every issue.. As for creationism, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that she thinks Creationism should be taught as the accepted method of the evolution of mankind or as a counterweight to science? I highly doubt a woman with her education level (she is a college graduate after all) would believe that Adam and Eve sprung out of nowhere and Eve literally came from Adam's rib.. Then again, I was born and raised a Lutheran, unliike some of the Southern Evangelicals who tend to interpret the bible literally and forget the meaning of the word "parable." So I guess I have a hard time believing anyone of her stature or educational level would interpret creationism in that way..As if Darwin's theories did not exist etc..etc.. I'm not as well informed on her stance regarding Creationism, would you enlighten me?

There seems to be something amiss with the Adam and Eve story as relates to the first two of all mankind. If you read the story, you will see that they have two sons, Cain and Abel, and then Cain slays Abel. God drives Cain away and Cain is fearful that anyone who comes upon him will kill him. Now, if Adam and Eve were the first two people and to this point have only born two sons, who is Cain afraid of? Where did the other people come from? Who is the wife of Cain that magically appears in the story?

Well..people tend to forget it is a story.. Is the bible meant to be taken literally? I dont believe the bible was even intended to be a history book. Something 5000 years ago may take on a different meaning than it does today given the culture and location of the place/event.

To many people the bible is to be taken literally and yes she wants to have creation AND intellegent design taught with real science. According to some the bible is written to be factual. Palin is a hardcore Christian. Unfortunately education means very little to alot of the devout religious people. They will put thier faith in God, Budda, Allah, some other deity but ask them if some other imaginary thing (Santa, Easter Bunny) could be real and they look at you like you are ignorant.

[epstud74 24]

Where have I stated that being a POW=Free Pass?

Your words were:

"McCain served his country and spent 5 years as a POW in some of the most horrid physical and emotional conditions a human being could endure. It is utterly ridiculous to even make an argument against his military record..Training mission or not..1st or 23rd mission..Ludicrous..Your argument has no merit in my opinion"

You essentially said that since he spent 5 years as a POW, I should not challenge his record. That to me equals free pass.

That statement has nothing to do with being a POW=Free Pass.. You came off as belittling his service record or someone else was anyways.

I dont think Bush is as "hands-on" as McCain. Bush is the tyep of executve who tends to delegate things to other people and worry more about the overall big picture. McCain is still a maverick and his selection of Palin reflects this. She's a bit like McCain in the fact that she's not too concerned about bucking the party line and doing what she feels is right.. I believe the McCain/Palin ticket is very different than the Bush/Cheney ticket of previous years. Perhaps this is what the GOP needs to do to recover some of the voter base they've lost in the last 7 or 8 years.

The more I read about her the less I like her. She delivered some funny lines in her speech but I am not in favor of anyone who honestly thinks we should be teaching creationism in schools. She is as far to the right as any candidate the republicans have ever had, primary or general election. It's a shame that McCain couldn't go with any of his top three or four picks, all of whom were pro-choice by the way. I can only hope that those selections show he is merely paying lip-service to the fundies.

The problem is that you have roughly 40% of the country is going to pull the Republican lever and roughly 40% are going to pull the Democratic lever, no matter who the candidate are. How those candidates appeal to the middle 20% is going to dictate who wins the election. I honestly believe Obama is going to destroy McCain in the deabates, much the same way Kennedy destroyed Nixon. Where Nixon's responses were better but Kennedy's demeanor and inspirational tone earned him a win.

Again, the country does better when we stick in the middle rather than vacillating left and right every few years. The parties spend as much time trying to undo the work of the previous administration as they do trying to make actual progress. Then you have the "vision" problem. When someone is trying to bring about their vision, they are generally less likely to cut a deal and take partial progress. It often ends up in an all or nothing showdown that results in absolutely no progress being made at all.

remember if pro is the opposite of con, progress is the opposite of congress. yes, I stole that, it wasn't mine.

have the two ever debated before? I dont think the Republicans are afraid of an Obama/McCain debate, but a Palin/Biden debate could be difficult. Biden is an old hand at politics and this could perhaps get ugly. Similar to how Cheney eviscerated Edwards back in 2004. I could be selling Palin short, but I'm just basing this on her being a relative newcomer to the national political scene and Biden being part of the establishment on Capitol Hill. My views on Palin? I dont think she's as far to the right as you say she is. I believe she further right on some issues, but is a centrist on other issues. She's a hard read since she's not completely to the right on every issue.. As for creationism, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that she thinks Creationism should be taught as the accepted method of the evolution of mankind or as a counterweight to science? I highly doubt a woman with her education level (she is a college graduate after all) would believe that Adam and Eve sprung out of nowhere and Eve literally came from Adam's rib.. Then again, I was born and raised a Lutheran, unliike some of the Southern Evangelicals who tend to interpret the bible literally and forget the meaning of the word "parable." So I guess I have a hard time believing anyone of her stature or educational level would interpret creationism in that way..As if Darwin's theories did not exist etc..etc.. I'm not as well informed on her stance regarding Creationism, would you enlighten me?

There seems to be something amiss with the Adam and Eve story as relates to the first two of all mankind. If you read the story, you will see that they have two sons, Cain and Abel, and then Cain slays Abel. God drives Cain away and Cain is fearful that anyone who comes upon him will kill him. Now, if Adam and Eve were the first two people and to this point have only born two sons, who is Cain afraid of? Where did the other people come from? Who is the wife of Cain that magically appears in the story?

Well..people tend to forget it is a story.. Is the bible meant to be taken literally? I dont believe the bible was even intended to be a history book. Something 5000 years ago may take on a different meaning than it does today given the culture and location of the place/event.

To many people the bible is to be taken literally and yes she wants to have creation AND intellegent design taught with real science. According to some the bible is written to be factual. Palin is a hardcore Christian. Unfortunately education means very little to alot of the devout religious people. They will put thier faith in God, Budda, Allah, some other deity but ask them if some other imaginary thing (Santa, Easter Bunny) could be real and they look at you like you are ignorant.

Well I guess someone can ask her flat out what she wants regarding Creationism. Define "hard core" Christian..someone who goes to church regularily? What do you mean "A lot of the devout religious people?" My grandmother is fairly religious, but places a premium on the value of an education and has no illusions regarding Adam and Eve vs Cro-Magnon/Neanderthal man..I think a lot of people are shooting from the hip regarding this issue..

[gxc999 7]

I feel inclined to set the record straight. McCain was shot down on his first mission and never commanded anything. Neither he nor Obama have ever been an executive. As for Palin, she disgusts me. The term morally repugnant comes to mind. Trust me, I'm no environmentalist whacko but her nickname is "Cut, kill, dug and drill Palin" for a reason. She's even on the right of the GD Bush Administration. Yet she calls herself a hockey mom? It seriously sickens me. But on the plus side, someone is finally making Ann Coulter look tasteful.

On the other hand, I have contempt for Joe Biden. He's another Washington Elitist, who's sure he knows what's right for everyone else. This election truly exemplifies the worst in both parties. I think the Republican party has gone so far right, we may need a Democrat to win to pull the conservative uber-extremists in toward the middle.

[sitzlejd 0]

I'd hit it.

[Bane 1]

I feel inclined to set the record straight. McCain was shot down on his first mission and never commanded anything. Neither he nor Obama have ever been an executive. As for Palin, she disgusts me. The term morally repugnant comes to mind. Trust me, I'm no environmentalist whacko but her nickname is "Cut, kill, dug and drill Palin" for a reason. She's even on the right of the GD Bush Administration. Yet she calls herself a hockey mom? It seriously sickens me. But on the plus side, someone is finally making Ann Coulter look tasteful.

On the other hand, I have contempt for Joe Biden. He's another Washington Elitist, who's sure he knows what's right for everyone else. This election truly exemplifies the worst in both parties. I think the Republican party has gone so far right, we may need a Democrat to win to pull the conservative uber-extremists in toward the middle.

My wife took offense to her comment; "what's the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick." My wife said, "She just called all us hockey moms dogs with makeup."

Not a good statement by her IMO.

[epstud74 24]

I feel inclined to set the record straight. McCain was shot down on his first mission and never commanded anything. Neither he nor Obama have ever been an executive. As for Palin, she disgusts me. The term morally repugnant comes to mind. Trust me, I'm no environmentalist whacko but her nickname is "Cut, kill, dug and drill Palin" for a reason. She's even on the right of the GD Bush Administration. Yet she calls herself a hockey mom? It seriously sickens me. But on the plus side, someone is finally making Ann Coulter look tasteful.

On the other hand, I have contempt for Joe Biden. He's another Washington Elitist, who's sure he knows what's right for everyone else. This election truly exemplifies the worst in both parties. I think the Republican party has gone so far right, we may need a Democrat to win to pull the conservative uber-extremists in toward the middle.

How does Palin disgust you? Do you have proof that McCain was shot down on his 1st mission? I see he is a 1958 graduate of the US Naval Academy. This article in the Arizona Republic will more or less invalidate your claim that he was shot down on his 1st mission. Have you been getting your information from the Huffington Post?

http://www.azcentral.com/news/specials/mcc...o-chapter3.html

[Bane 1]

Where have I stated that being a POW=Free Pass?

Your words were:

"McCain served his country and spent 5 years as a POW in some of the most horrid physical and emotional conditions a human being could endure. It is utterly ridiculous to even make an argument against his military record..Training mission or not..1st or 23rd mission..Ludicrous..Your argument has no merit in my opinion"

You essentially said that since he spent 5 years as a POW, I should not challenge his record. That to me equals free pass.

That statement has nothing to do with being a POW=Free Pass.. You came off as belittling his service record or someone else was anyways.

I was not belittling his service, just stating that being a POW does not automatically qualify a person for president or allow them to deflect tough questions by constantly saying "I'm a POW." You replied with the statement above. Since you were not trying to imply he should have a free pass, you have my apologies.

[chippa13 1844]

I feel inclined to set the record straight. McCain was shot down on his first mission and never commanded anything. Neither he nor Obama have ever been an executive. As for Palin, she disgusts me. The term morally repugnant comes to mind. Trust me, I'm no environmentalist whacko but her nickname is "Cut, kill, dug and drill Palin" for a reason. She's even on the right of the GD Bush Administration. Yet she calls herself a hockey mom? It seriously sickens me. But on the plus side, someone is finally making Ann Coulter look tasteful.

On the other hand, I have contempt for Joe Biden. He's another Washington Elitist, who's sure he knows what's right for everyone else. This election truly exemplifies the worst in both parties. I think the Republican party has gone so far right, we may need a Democrat to win to pull the conservative uber-extremists in toward the middle.

John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.

Having been rehabilitated, by late 1974, McCain had his flight status reinstated, and in 1976 he became commanding officer of a training squadron stationed in Florida.[54][57] He improved the unit's flight readiness and safety records,[58] and won the squadron its first-ever Meritorious Unit Commendation

I feel inclined to set the record straight. McCain was shot down on his first mission and never commanded anything. Neither he nor Obama have ever been an executive. As for Palin, she disgusts me. The term morally repugnant comes to mind. Trust me, I'm no environmentalist whacko but her nickname is "Cut, kill, dug and drill Palin" for a reason. She's even on the right of the GD Bush Administration. Yet she calls herself a hockey mom? It seriously sickens me. But on the plus side, someone is finally making Ann Coulter look tasteful.

On the other hand, I have contempt for Joe Biden. He's another Washington Elitist, who's sure he knows what's right for everyone else. This election truly exemplifies the worst in both parties. I think the Republican party has gone so far right, we may need a Democrat to win to pull the conservative uber-extremists in toward the middle.

My wife took offense to her comment; "what's the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick." My wife said, "She just called all us hockey moms dogs with makeup."

Not a good statement by her IMO.

Yes, that is exactly what she meant. Which chapter of MENSA does your wife belong to, anyway?

[Bane 1]

I feel inclined to set the record straight. McCain was shot down on his first mission and never commanded anything. Neither he nor Obama have ever been an executive. As for Palin, she disgusts me. The term morally repugnant comes to mind. Trust me, I'm no environmentalist whacko but her nickname is "Cut, kill, dug and drill Palin" for a reason. She's even on the right of the GD Bush Administration. Yet she calls herself a hockey mom? It seriously sickens me. But on the plus side, someone is finally making Ann Coulter look tasteful.

On the other hand, I have contempt for Joe Biden. He's another Washington Elitist, who's sure he knows what's right for everyone else. This election truly exemplifies the worst in both parties. I think the Republican party has gone so far right, we may need a Democrat to win to pull the conservative uber-extremists in toward the middle.

John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.

Having been rehabilitated, by late 1974, McCain had his flight status reinstated, and in 1976 he became commanding officer of a training squadron stationed in Florida.[54][57] He improved the unit's flight readiness and safety records,[58] and won the squadron its first-ever Meritorious Unit Commendation

I feel inclined to set the record straight. McCain was shot down on his first mission and never commanded anything. Neither he nor Obama have ever been an executive. As for Palin, she disgusts me. The term morally repugnant comes to mind. Trust me, I'm no environmentalist whacko but her nickname is "Cut, kill, dug and drill Palin" for a reason. She's even on the right of the GD Bush Administration. Yet she calls herself a hockey mom? It seriously sickens me. But on the plus side, someone is finally making Ann Coulter look tasteful.

On the other hand, I have contempt for Joe Biden. He's another Washington Elitist, who's sure he knows what's right for everyone else. This election truly exemplifies the worst in both parties. I think the Republican party has gone so far right, we may need a Democrat to win to pull the conservative uber-extremists in toward the middle.

My wife took offense to her comment; "what's the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick." My wife said, "She just called all us hockey moms dogs with makeup."

Not a good statement by her IMO.

Yes, that is exactly what she meant. Which chapter of MENSA does your wife belong to, anyway?

Don't you think that is going a bit far??? What happened to discussion with respect?

[chippa13 1844]

When you so blatantly misconstrue the meaning behind Palin's statement on hockey moms, it is just too hard to resist.