Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[rachael7 1]

Speaking of owning your own shapner (you, Rachel, and JR) - is it fairly easy to learn?

It's not simple, but it's far from the toughest thing I've ever had to learn. The principles are relatively straightforward; it just took a bit of practice to master a smooth motion, to get the hang of getting a good dress on the wheel, and to learn how to adjust the holder for even edges. I would definitely recommend practicing on some old steel until you feel comfortable, but I wouldn't be intimidated about learning it.

[AfftonDad 88]

Speaking of owning your own shapner (you, Rachel, and JR) - is it fairly easy to learn?

It ain't rocket science. You need to understand what you are trying to accomplish, understand the equipment, care enough to pay attention to detail and in my opinion you need to have an edge checker. Before I started sharpening I used to wonder what the guys were doing when they would put that "little thing" on the top of the skate and I used to wonder why some guys/places did it and some didn't. Now that I know what that is all about, I can't imagine sharpening without an edge checker. I understand some people can supposedly do it with witness marks alone, but I'm not one of them.

[Chadd 916]

I understand some people can supposedly do it with witness marks alone, but I'm not one of them.

In most cases, they're just lazy. Witness marks will help you get it just as level as it was before, the problem is knowing if it was level in the first place.

[rachael7 1]

In most cases, they're just lazy. Witness marks will help you get it just as level as it was before, the problem is knowing if it was level in the first place.

Exactly right. If I'm doing skates that I did last time (so I know they are level), witness marks get me close enough for jazz. But when I want it dead nuts on or when I didn't do the last sharpen, there is no substitute for the edge checker.

[Chadd 916]

Exactly right. If I'm doing skates that I did last time (so I know they are level), witness marks get me close enough for jazz. But when I want it dead nuts on or when I didn't do the last sharpen, there is no substitute for the edge checker.

I tend to look at the edges every time, even if I did sharpen them last. If they appear off at all with a quick look or a razor blade across the top, I will whip out an edge checking tool.

[forbs02 20]

I use the edge checker on the front and back of the steel on every pair of skates I sharpen. If it is a pair where I wasn't the previous sharpener, I check them before so I can adjust if I need to.

[mnpucker 33]

Speaking of owning your own shapner (you, Rachel, and JR) - is it fairly easy to learn?

Best purchase I have ever made. It is not difficult. As Rachel said take your time with some old steel. Get the 100/50, tef top (recently used for the first time.....wow what a difference). You will not regret it.

Forgot get the edge checker for sure.....

Edited April 12, 2011 by mnpucker

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

I don't do witness marks. I may mate it to the wheel if someone used the holder before me.

If I have the holder pretty much tuned I'll just sharpen away and follow the spark displacement. That just comes with experience.

[RussianDangler15 0]

I'm seriously considering purchasing an X01 and was curious as too what people on here recomend I purchase with it. Also as someone who's new to sharpening what are the differences and benefits of the different wheels you can buy?

[mnpucker 33]

I'm seriously considering purchasing an X01 and was curious as too what people on here recomend I purchase with it. Also as someone who's new to sharpening what are the differences and benefits of the different wheels you can buy?

100/50, tef top, magnetic edge checker (sorry blackstone but stay away from the bat gauge), ruby wheel is the best IMO (it dresses the blade cleaner than orange), fine shine is fun to play with but not necessary. Travel case>? I have one and use it for out of town tourneys. aside from that a good vac system and a table....might as well make a man cave out of the set up.....mini fridge for a couple beers.

[Katzenjammer 1]

100/50, tef top, magnetic edge checker (sorry blackstone but stay away from the bat gauge), ruby wheel is the best IMO (it dresses the blade cleaner than orange), fine shine is fun to play with but not necessary. Travel case>? I have one and use it for out of town tourneys. aside from that a good vac system and a table....might as well make a man cave out of the set up.....mini fridge for a couple beers.

Now yer talkin' sir. How much noise does it make - (EDIT: what I mean is, how does it compare to a regular sharpner?)

How much space do you need?

Edited April 13, 2011 by Katzenjammer

[mnpucker 33]

Now yer talkin' sir. How much noise does it make - (EDIT: what I mean is, how does it compare to a regular sharpner?)

How much space do you need?

Depends on how much beer you drink I suppose. The only time I make much noise is when I drink way too much beer. Kidding, kind of. I would say that the X02 makes about the same noise as any other brander I have heard. The loudest part of my set up is the Shop vac I have set up for dust removal. So I guess the X02 is not as loud as a shop vac. I have my X02 set up on a work bench I purchased from Lowe's that measures about 48" l x 24" d. Glad I have that much space, it allows me a work space for honing. I do suggest a good light over the set up. My bench has a fluorescent light immediately above the sharpener. I posted pics about 3000 pages ago on this thread.!

[Gub 0]

I don't know where it stands now, but most of us on this thread have read the article (two years old now I think) that said that some 20+ NHL teams had added FBV capability to their arsenel. Since it is a relatively low cost impact to such a big organization I can't imagine that they don't all have the capability now. That of course doesn't speak to the question of how many of the players on each team are using it though. If Blackstone people are still monitoring this thread they could possibly comment on that.

We are amazed at how many players are using the Flat Bottom V in the NHL. Every day we speak with the equipment managers around the league and we are getting excellent feedback and constant orders for more FBV spinners. The number of players using it on each team vary from a handful to nearly all of them including goalies. It is changing every day. I believe there are 25 teams now with the capability off the top of my head. It has really taken off and we are having a ton of fun with it.

[Gub 0]

100/50, tef top, magnetic edge checker (sorry blackstone but stay away from the bat gauge), ruby wheel is the best IMO (it dresses the blade cleaner than orange), fine shine is fun to play with but not necessary. Travel case>? I have one and use it for out of town tourneys. aside from that a good vac system and a table....might as well make a man cave out of the set up.....mini fridge for a couple beers.

I certainly understand your concern with the Batgage from Blackstone. However, it has been re-engineered and it works absolutely fantastic now. I definitely recommend getting one as it now works as it is supposed to with no issues. You will notice on the website that is says "new and improved".

[mnpucker 33]

I certainly understand your concern with the Batgage from Blackstone. However, it has been re-engineered and it works absolutely fantastic now. I definitely recommend getting one as it now works as it is supposed to with no issues. You will notice on the website that is says "new and improved".

Hey they make great products, unfortunately my experience with the bat gage I have is not one that I can recommend. I would like to know what is new and improved? I hope the new one works for them. Anyone want an old one? haha

Edited April 13, 2011 by mnpucker

[rachael7 1]

Yes, please do tell us what has been changed/improved. I have stayed away from the Batgage because of less than enthusiastic reviews and I would love to hear what has been addressed in the new design.

[Thinkingjack 51]

This might be off subject to the current convo but i just started using the Flat bottom sharpening recently and the word Impressed is an understatement.

The Flat Bottom V has got to be the best thing i've ever used for sharpening for my skates, i really feel the bite of each single edge, i cracked my right ankle a few years ago and stopping on my right foot just plain sucked everything would just either bite too hard, and after getting that sharpening the feel has been better enough that i've been able to actually stop correctly and do it again. The bite like i said is amazing, basically no drag on the ice at all you can push off and just glide forever and the feel of the ice just feels even better, if this is a gimmick then god forbid it doesn't go away.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Thinkingjack

[chiefs17 2]

Yes, please do tell us what has been changed/improved. I have stayed away from the Batgage because of less than enthusiastic reviews and I would love to hear what has been addressed in the new design.

I'd like to know what's new with the Bat Gage too please. Also, as you can tell from some of the posts in this thread, we have quite a few guys that are very technical and can probably modify their existing Bat Gage to work better if it's a minor change that BS made to it. So feel free to describe the mods in detail.

OTOH, I have gotten used to using the old Bat Gage, and it's not as bad as I originally thought. You need to lightly lubricate the pins that hold the pointer. I also lightly oil the part of the pointer that slides on the body of the BG. While you have the oil out, it's not a bad idea to lube the spring loaded clamping mechanism too. Basically lube everything without over doing it.

I also clamp the BG on the blade, then push down on the top part of it a couple of times which compresses the springs and re-sets it. You have to be holding the skate level when you do this. Works pretty good that way.

The main thing is keeping it clean, as with everything else about the machine, and especially the holder and table top. I wipe the skate blades down before I put the BG on them.

[lohnman 0]

I had a bat gage for awhile as well as the HDI, the gage works well most of the time, but not nearly as good as the HDI. The HDI is twice as much, but in my opinion worth every penny.

[SAK 2]

Thanks for everyone' input....in regards to the bat Gauge: 1. We tightened the tolerances up. 2. We opened the wholes up by a 32nd to .235. Seems simple enough but it works great. I am a creature of habit and although I am in my early 40's I have been sharpening skates since I was 12. I had a hard time getting use to the bat gauge as well, and I was selling them. I now feel that it is truly one of the most accurate ways to measure your skate. The reason I say this is that I have used many (if not all) the gauges for measuring edges and they all have one thing in common.....wear. The wings on the batgauge are harden steel and with normal use the gauge will last for a lifetime. As many know the whole idea of having measurement tools is to have consistency and accuracy, without one you can't have the other. For those of you that are going to attempt to bore out the wing holes please note it is harden steel. Thanks again. Steve

[mnpucker 33]

Thanks for everyone' input....in regards to the bat Gauge: 1. We tightened the tolerances up. 2. We opened the wholes up by a 32nd to .235. Seems simple enough but it works great. I am a creature of habit and although I am in my early 40's I have been sharpening skates since I was 12. I had a hard time getting use to the bat gauge as well, and I was selling them. I now feel that it is truly one of the most accurate ways to measure your skate. The reason I say this is that I have used many (if not all) the gauges for measuring edges and they all have one thing in common.....wear. The wings on the batgauge are harden steel and with normal use the gauge will last for a lifetime. As many know the whole idea of having measurement tools is to have consistency and accuracy, without one you can't have the other. For those of you that are going to attempt to bore out the wing holes please note it is harden steel. Thanks again. Steve

Thanks Sak, One question, you are right about wear on the aluminim of the other types of edge tools out there. Can you help me be more confident that the springs on the BG will remain equal in resistance? I am sure opening up the holes would reduce the tendency of the BG to hang up. I will try drilling it out.

Thanks

[SAK 2]

Thanks for everyone' input....in regards to the bat Gauge: 1. We tightened the tolerances up. 2. We opened the wholes up by a 32nd to .235. Seems simple enough but it works great. I am a creature of habit and although I am in my early 40's I have been sharpening skates since I was 12. I had a hard time getting use to the bat gauge as well, and I was selling them. I now feel that it is truly one of the most accurate ways to measure your skate. The reason I say this is that I have used many (if not all) the gauges for measuring edges and they all have one thing in common.....wear. The wings on the batgauge are harden steel and with normal use the gauge will last for a lifetime. As many know the whole idea of having measurement tools is to have consistency and accuracy, without one you can't have the other. For those of you that are going to attempt to bore out the wing holes please note it is harden steel. Thanks again. Steve

The spring is not an issue. Where it was getting hung up was on the post. What I do when I measure is make sure that the bottom of the batwing is touching down down on both edges of the skate blade before I look at the results. All the spring is there for is to create a force instead of a magnet, which we found will pick up debris and can create false readings. Which is one of the reasons we stayed away from a magnet.

[rachael7 1]

Thanks Sak, One question, you are right about wear on the aluminim of the other types of edge tools out there. Can you help me be more confident that the springs on the BG will remain equal in resistance? I am sure opening up the holes would reduce the tendency of the BG to hang up. I will try drilling it out.

Thanks

Steve indicated you would be drilling hardened steel... probably just going to smoke up your bit, unless you have a carbide tipped one.

[mnpucker 33]

Steve indicated you would be drilling hardened steel... probably just going to smoke up your bit, unless you have a carbide tipped one.

Yeah I got that....one way or another I will get that thing drilled out.

[rachael7 1]

Yeah I got that....one way or another I will get that thing drilled out.

You could probably do it with one of these in a drill press, but that's pretty cost prohibitive. Short of that, if the steel is really hardened to any degree, you're better off trying to grind it out with a small cylindrical stone on a Dremel tool at low speed and just hope like heck you get it round.