Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[goblue9280 33]

It's physics, velocity of an object in circular motion is angular velocity multiplied by the radius. So if you have a 4" grining wheel and an 8" wheel and both are on shafts that spin at the same rate, then the speed at the point of contact (where the wheel touches the blade) will be higher on the 8" wheel than the 4" wheel. So, if you want the cutting velocity between the blade and wheel to be the same, the RPM's of the smaller wheel needs to be increased.

A few years ago a LHS guy mentioned something to me about "surface speed" or "surface feet per second". Something about bigger wheel, less RPM's, but smaller wheel, then more RPM's. Does that mean anything to anybody?

[seabird 0]

Ok, I think some things have changed. I swear when I went to the Blackstone site in early December, the X-01 was a belt drive and was around 3450 RPM's. Now the website alludes to a 5500 RPM rating with no mention of what the drive is. The website info for the X-02 is really confusing now. There is no mention of the drive and the motor info says 3450 RPM's and the bullet below that says 6900 RPM's. (Seabird called them and they say direct drive for the X-01, and belt drive for the X-02.)

In my opinion a direct drive motor is better and lasts longer with little/no maintenance. This whole RPM thing, especially with the X-02 has me a little confused.

A few years ago a LHS guy mentioned something to me about "surface speed" or "surface feet per second". Something about bigger wheel, less RPM's, but smaller wheel, then more RPM's. Does that mean anything to anybody?

someone beat me to it but hears my logic...

i agree the site is confusing and i'm still not 100% clear. as far as the surface/ft/min thing it does make sense i.e. a bigger wheel will cover more surface in one revolution vs a small wheel just based on the larger circumference of the wheel, therefore to achieve the same surface/ft/min a small wheel would need to be travelling at a higher rpm to cover the same surface as the larger wheel...hope this makes sense.

Edited January 27, 2012 by seabird

[talkintothemike 4]

GoBlue and Seabird: Yes, the physics or math makes sense in numbers. I was just wondering how that related to sharpening a skate. Most of the bigger machines from Blackstone or Blademaster run at around the magical 3450 RPM's with, I think, a 7" or 8" wheel. So if you use a X-01 or X-02 with a 4" wheel, then the RPM's would have to be higher to get the same surface speed. But, what if the 4" wheel has the same RPM's and a lower surface speed? Does that give you a substandard sharpening or do you just need to make more passes?

Anyone that has used a big machine and a portable (smaller wheel) notice a difference?

[goblue9280 33]

GoBlue and Seabird: Yes, the physics or math makes sense in numbers. I was just wondering how that related to sharpening a skate. Most of the bigger machines from Blackstone or Blademaster run at around the magical 3450 RPM's with, I think, a 7" or 8" wheel. So if you use a X-01 or X-02 with a 4" wheel, then the RPM's would have to be higher to get the same surface speed. But, what if the 4" wheel has the same RPM's and a lower surface speed? Does that give you a substandard sharpening or do you just need to make more passes?

Anyone that has used a big machine and a portable (smaller wheel) notice a difference?

My guess would be that's why the direct drive motor on the X01 spins at 5500RPM, to get the surface/ft/min up. With the X02, I imagine since it's belt driven it's "geared" (excuse my ignorance on mechanical word usage) to allow the grinding wheel to spin at a higher RPM than the motor puts out thus increasing the surface/ft/min.

Edited January 27, 2012 by goblue9280

[rachael7 1]

Anyone that has used a big machine and a portable (smaller wheel) notice a difference?

Yes, I have both an X01 and a 3 head full sized Blademaster and there is a big difference. The smaller wheel, with it's lower surface speed cuts less aggressively. It takes more passes or pressure and final passes have to be slower to get the same qualiy of finish. Not knocking the X01 here at all - I love the machine - just the unavoidable difference between a light duty machine and a heavy duty machine. I haven't used the X02, but mathmatically, the surface speed should be similar to the big machine, so other than perhaps less torque, I expect it behaves more like the big machines.

[muddy 2]

Man there is a lot of great info on this thread and forum!! I have learned a ton about skate sharpening!!

Another quick question, how often is everyone needing to replace their grinding wheels on the X01 or X02? Also, what, if any, are the differences in the differnt colored wheels for these machines? I can see the explanation in the bigger wheels but cannot see if it carries over into the smaller X series wheels or not. What is everyone using and having the most success with?

Thanks!

[z71 0]

I'm looking forward to hearing an answer to Muddy's question as well. I know I was told that the Ruby stone is more aggressive than the orange stone and was even told by Blackstone that they normally won't sell Ruby stones to newbies because they can remove too much steel too quickly. Regarding the difference between the Orange and the pink - I have no idea.

As far as how often you need to replace the wheels - it's a direct correlation with how often you shape the wheel and how much pressure you apply when shaping. I've heard some say that you only need to dress the stone every 4 - 6 pairs of skates, but that's assuming you are putting the same cut on all those skates. I've almost gone through my first two wheels (one orange, one ruby) pretty quickly and was surprised by how fast I was going through them. I'm now not shaping the wheel as often and I'm being more careful to not remove so much material when shaping.

I got this idea from someone else but I'll typically mark the wheel with a black sharpie when changing the shape so I know when I've removed just enough material. I also take a black sharpie to the bottom of the steel before sharpening so I can see when I've removed all of the old steel. It does provide a great visual reference.

Hopefully the experts like JR can chime in because I'm still a rookie at all this!

[goblue9280 33]

I got an email response from blackstone. Basically the same stuff that has already been stated. The X01 is direct drive and runs at 5600 RPM, while the X02 is belt driven and runs at 7500 RPM. The X02 is more robust and meant for more than 5 sharpenings a week.

I also asked about the differences between the child and adult holder and was told that if you have skates where the blade is 6" or under, you should go with the child holder. He also referred to the child holder as "universal" in that it can be used on goalie and figure skates. He also told me that the main advantage of the adult holder over the child for larger skates is stability. With that in mind, has anyone with the child holder had issues mounting/sharpening a large skate (adult 10.5 or 11)?

[dc00 0]

I have an X01. If I run my fingers through the blades after each sharpening, even though the edges are sharpe, they are not as smooth as I expected. It almost feels like there are small nix on the blades that weren't there before. What might be the issue?

[jimmy 194]

I have an X01. If I run my fingers through the blades after each sharpening, even though the edges are sharpe, they are not as smooth as I expected. It almost feels like there are small nix on the blades that weren't there before. What might be the issue?

Did you hone them after sharpening?

[trukweaz 2]

I love my XO2 and get consistent edges with the FBV spinners. After taking my sons size 11 youth skates to a local shop and having the edges be so out of alignment I have decided to look for a youth X series holder.

Edited February 4, 2012 by JR Boucicaut
Please don't solicit, post edited

[dc00 0]

Did you hone them after sharpening?

Yes. Run it on both sides.

[jimmy 194]

Do your blades have a ot of scratches on the sides? If so, this is what you could be feeling. Just skate on them and le tus know how they feel.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Also, make sure you have a good honing stone and that it is clean.

[chiefs17 2]

I've found that doing goalie skates requires about 10 clicks of the holder knobs, down of course.

At the advice of the guys at Blackstone and people on this thread, I have used the "set and forget" method for the back "pitch" knob on my X-12 holder with my X-01. That has worked well. However, I have been asked to do my first pair of goalie skates. I am assuming that "set and forget" doesn't apply to goalie skates. Does anyone have a rule of thumb for how much to adjust the back knob for goalie skates (the ones I am doing are around 0.15in thick). Alternatively, can anyone tell me how much one click raises the X-12 holder? Thanks.

[z71 0]

Does anyone have any experience with the Pink wheel?

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

It's good for figure and goal skates; may have some issues cutting into stainless; would require constant redressing.

[chiefs17 2]

I got an email response from blackstone. Basically the same stuff that has already been stated. The X01 is direct drive and runs at 5600 RPM, while the X02 is belt driven and runs at 7500 RPM. The X02 is more robust and meant for more than 5 sharpenings a week.

I also asked about the differences between the child and adult holder and was told that if you have skates where the blade is 6" or under, you should go with the child holder. He also referred to the child holder as "universal" in that it can be used on goalie and figure skates. He also told me that the main advantage of the adult holder over the child for larger skates is stability. With that in mind, has anyone with the child holder had issues mounting/sharpening a large skate (adult 10.5 or 11)?

I made up this little jig for doing kids skates. I was going to buy a nice bolt that has a knob on one end and a swivel foot on the other end, but I haven't yet. It would make it nicer, especially if you care about the side of your blades getting a little scuff mark in them, which obviously I don't. I use a little wrench to tighten the bolt against the blade. This works good for the amount of time I need to do little skates. I think the skate in the jig is a size 11.

[DBear 0]

I've been lurking on this thread for a while some great info. - so thanks all. I finally went over to the rink at lunch and took the plunge.

My local rink has a blademaster system I got the run down on it from the owner. I started me out with their #6 which he was

saying matched house cut of 5\8". He let me hop out on to the ice to try them out. It took me a second to find the edge

but a bit it settled right in I did I really did feel a difference. Going to skate them in a game tomorrow night and see how it feels.

Can't wait.

[jimmy 194]

I've been lurking on this thread for a while some great info. - so thanks all. I finally went over to the rink at lunch and took the plunge.

My local rink has a blademaster system I got the run down on it from the owner. I started me out with their #6 which he was

saying matched house cut of 5\8". He let me hop out on to the ice to try them out. It took me a second to find the edge

but a bit it settled right in I did I really did feel a difference. Going to skate them in a game tomorrow night and see how it feels.

Can't wait.

Now you should try the "real" FBV. ;-)

[dc00 0]

People said a lot of good things about FBV. But is it true that younger players, those under 100 lbs, won't get much benefit from it?

I'm thinking about letting my kid try it, but don't want to waste the money. Have anyone with young kids tried it? What's your experience? Thanks.

[Jordan 13]

My kid has used it since it first came out and has always loved it. He liked the feeling of better glide without sacrificing bite. He started in novice, so he was well under 100 pounds at the time, probably around 60 pounds back then.

He is now a minor peewee skating on 100/50.

It's worth a try...see if he likes it. Have him try an FBV profile, then fine tune depending on his comments (ie too sharp, too slippery etc.)

What is he on now?

[dc00 0]

My kid is on 5/8. So I'm thinking about 90/75. Also would the potentially softer ice in spring/summer make any difference in the choice?

[tareatingrat 4]

90/50 is closer to 5/8", in my opinion. 90/75 has much more bite.

[Chadd 916]

90/50 is closer to 5/8", in my opinion. 90/75 has much more bite.

Most of the guys I have that were on 5/8 went to 90/75. Most of them felt that 90/50 had much less bite than they were used to.