Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[justforthefunofit 0]

Thanks for the tip. You were right on.

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

Just tested out 90/50 and it is nothing short of amazing.

[larrivee 3]

Just tested out 90/50 and it is nothing short of amazing.

Tried 100/50 last night and was really happy- even on a rainy night with full on rain divots and puddles in the ice.

[Ahriman 1]

Just tested out 90/50 and it is nothing short of amazing.

QQ from me, still can't get that around me last I checked.

edit, Blarg, I read it as 100/50, my brain overwrote it :P

Edited May 15, 2009 by Ahriman

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

Just tested out 90/50 and it is nothing short of amazing.

Tried 100/50 last night and was really happy- even on a rainy night with full on rain divots and puddles in the ice.

Yeah, sounds like you really needed the in-between, like I said you would. Glad to see you got it dialed in.

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

Not too impressed with how the X01 came from the factory.

The pitch was WAY off, the blade was visibly pointing upwards just to contact the wheel. Don't they check this for each machine before it leaves Blackstone? had to turn pitch like 20 turns just to get the skate level to the wheel.

The spinner was installed upside down with the c-clip up. Spring clip way too tight so the spinner wouldn't spin. One of the Steve's at Blackstone was very helpful in troubleshooting.

I'm still undecided on how good the X01 is. Tabletop is not too slick.

Didn't have this much trouble getting a Wissota working out of the box.

Blackstone has nothing made in there own factory. Everything is outsourced. They have no quality control manager.

Completely untrue - everything is made in their factory.

Once again, you're spreading bad information in order to belittle a company and a product that you obviously have a grudge with.

I had a problem with my holder and they took care of the issue. I also made some adjustments by taking a surface grinder to it but Blackstone's CS has ALWAYS been top-notch. A few users I know haven't had problems with it, but others did.

[Spreedizzle 1]

Same spinner I picked up about a month ago....it is perfect for me also.

Just tested out 90/50 and it is nothing short of amazing.

[Ivan 1]

Kinda cool - more FBV options for professional Blackstone machines http://blackstonesport.com/products.cfm?category_id=18

[squashguy 0]

Yes, I definitely had wheel hop, which I attributed to an unbalanced wheel. It must be pretty bad if it's happening on such a small wheel. I was either drilled off center or the wheel is crap. I tried loosening and tightening the wheel in a different orientation, it only helped a little.

Squashguy, have you noticed any wheel hop on your X01? A good way to see it is after you shut the machine off, watch the wheel slow down and come to a stop. The slower the wheel is spinning, the easier it is to notice the wheel hop. Mine was out of round and the center hole of the arbor was drilled at an angle so the wheel would hop up and down and in and out causing a wicked vibration. Just curious if anyone else had this problem.

I have no idea about where their machines are made or put together.

I'm just commenting on how I received the machine, and how many calls had to be made to Blackstone to get the machine working the way it should (and it still doesn't). I would call this a quality control issue.

[chiefs17 2]

Squashguy, I contacted Blackstone about it and they sent me a new arbor, but it had the same amount of wheel hop because the center hole was drilled non-concentric, and also at an angle, just like the first one. I ended up having to have the center hole of the arbor drilled out on a lathe to correct the wheel hop. Then I made a shim to make it a tight fit on the motor shaft. Now the only vibration I get is because the arbor nut is also drilled non-concentric. It's mild enough to still get a good sharpening, but could easily have been prevented.

It's definitely a quality control issue. Having good customer service is great, and I think every company should. But if they are not recognizing and fixing the QC issues then it doesn't improve anything, and just puts more pressure on their own CS department.

PM me if you want more info on the arbor fix, or surface grinding the lower posts on the holder.

[mckjim 2]

I've owned EZ-Sharp, Blademaster and now The X02 and I have had to re-dress the wheel each time it was changed. There is no reasonable way to create an arbor and grinding wheel and have them be 100% true "out of the box". As to the holder, you need to understand that you paid $900.00 or $1500.00 for the X01 or X02 and they tried to keep the cost down and affordable. If there are issues with the machine, I have always been able to get help and questions/issues resolved talking to Steve W. I happen to think the Blademaster holder that comes standard is crap, and I use a slightly modified ICON holder ($600.00) with the Blademaster portable. I welcomed the fact that Blackstone is making a Tri-Lie holder available as an option for the X02. Yes it costs more $, no you don't have to have it, BUT, I don't sharpen skates because I have to, and I have always sought to do the best job possible on any skates I sharpen. By the way, I sharpen skates for my kids teams, friends, etc., and have done over 500 pair on the X02 since December 2008. I am sure the machine was never intended to do that much work so quickly, but I have had no problems. The only problem is there are not enough other sources around here doing FBV and I keep getting new friends of friends who know somebody who said I had the FBV, and could I please do there skates. You see, I don't charge any of the people I sharpen skates for, because they have to play for one of the kids three teams, or be a good friend. I bought this machine not to make money on it, but to do the best sharpening. I have tried the rest and the X02 is simply the best for the price and the reasonable expectations of a team sharpener, as is the X01 for a family sharpener. If you want a much better fit and finish, the price starts much higher for all other machines. I have had to change the grinding wheel on my machine several times, and have had to dress the wheel each time to true it up. Same for the other manufactures though.

[chiefs17 2]

mckjim, I agree with everything you say, except the part about not being able to produce an arbor and grinding wheel that is 100% true right out of the box. The arbor is a machined part that is turned in a lathe. If the center hole were bored while still in the lathe it should be perfect. I'm not sure how they are getting parts that are drilled off center and at an angle. You would have to drill that hole by hand to get it that screwed up, doesn't make sense to me. Re-dressing the wheel will not remove the up and down hop of the wheel, it will just make the grinding wheel out of round causing a bigger vibration.

Totally agree with the purchase price of these machines, they are at the low end of the skate sharpening world. I just think some things could be fixed without changing the end cost of the machine.

[squashguy 0]

yeah, but i paid $900 for a Wissota, dressed it once, and it was fine, and that's with a 7" wheel, which is more than twice as large as the 4" wheel. That means it will have about 3 times the moment of inertia compared to a small wheel, even after taking rpm's into consideration.

If anything the smaller wheel should be easier to balance, or with the same tolerances should be better balanced than a large wheel. Shame a $900 machine be rendered 'cheap' or 'low-end' because a $10 wheel can't be drilled true. I know I do a better sharpen with my wissota than some places can with a $5000 system.

Edited May 18, 2009 by squashguy

[Chadd 916]

Most of the Wissotas I've used were terrible. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole given the other options on the market right now.

[SAK 2]

It is very hard satisfying all customers. Chiefs all parts are cnc made. That would be why both pieces you recieved were the same. We measured are parts after this issue that you brought to us and found that all the parts were in spec. I understand your frustrations your expectations have not been met. You both have the number to Blackstone and I welcome you to call and we can arrange to come to some sort of arrangement, it appears you have buyers remourse and we would rather have happy customers.

Steve

Edited May 19, 2009 by SAK

[chiefs17 2]

Steve, I am happy with my machine now that I've fixed the issues that I had with it. I'm just trying to help other people that are having the same problems because I know I was very frustrated with it before it was sorted out.

Just because the parts are CNC machined and measure within spec doesn't mean they are good parts. I think the tolerance of that arbor needs to be tightened up. I was seeing .012" of runout where it should be less than .005. This is very easily attainable on a CNC without any additional cost to make the part.

Thanks for offering to speak with me.

[NorthStar 0]

I have a couple questions about the FBV sharpening and portable sharpeners

1. Would FBV sharpening mess up a combination radius profile?

2. If I bought the X01 would I also need to purchase a cross grinder separately?

[jimmy 194]

I have a couple questions about the FBV sharpening and portable sharpeners

1. Would FBV sharpening mess up a combination radius profile?

2. If I bought the X01 would I also need to purchase a cross grinder separately?

The type of sharpening does not mess up the profile, a bad sharpener does that. If they mess up a regular radius, they'll mess up a combo too.

Crossgrinders are unnecessary. I'm surprised anyone even sell them anymore.

[DarkStar50 679]

I'm guessing you don't cross grind brand new skates out of the box then?

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

I'm guessing you don't cross grind brand new skates out of the box then?

I don't. I dress the wheel, and can shape it using the wheel if necessary.

[DarkStar50 679]

No problem, I'm old school. Throw in a busy Saturday in the shop selling skates and the cross grinder is a necessary evil for speed.

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

Yeah, hear ya on that. Started doing it in MI when we had the sharpening assembly line going - always disrupted when someone needed to CG.

[Ngo_35 1]

No problem, I'm old school. Throw in a busy Saturday in the shop selling skates and the cross grinder is a necessary evil for speed.

Don't forget the carbon blades covered in rust from a whole summers worth of marinating in a bag. Who knows what else grows on the blade.

[Too Old 1]

Simple fix for that. Get some of the special brown anti-rust paper they wrap car parts/etc with. Wrap around the bottom of the blades and then put the soakers on to hold the paper in place. No more rust.

[fieldofdreams 0]

Simple fix for that. Get some of the special brown anti-rust paper they wrap car parts/etc with. Wrap around the bottom of the blades and then put the soakers on to hold the paper in place. No more rust.

If the three times a year pond skaters are too lazy to dry off blades after skating, no way they will do that.