Balsillie's Back

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

Just a reminder, the NBA tried basketball in Vancouver. It didn't work. They sucked, the owner had no money and sold off. I'm pretty sure not to many Canadian fans cared. Sure if they made the playoffs, fans might of come, but it was doomed from the beginning, it just didn't work, and I'm sure people realize that. It wasn't a basketball market. The NBA realized it was a failure. Some things just don't work out.

Edit- removed quoted stuff

Wrong!!!!

I was here, and attended games.

1. The NBA wouldn't allow either the Raps or the Grizz top draft picks, and thus were forced to improve from the perspective of never having a top pick, despite the record, for a few years. The Raps STILL blow because of this in their early years. Colangelo is trying to turn things around there, they have been better the last 3-4 years.

2. The Original owner wasn't a basketball guy per se and asked the NBA who should head BBall Ops and be the GM, they gave us Stu(pid) Jackson, who they were wanting out of the NBA HQ, and he ruined us. He missed on drafting lots of guys and drafted really poorly instead. Steve Nash was passed up, who is from here in favour of others like Steve Francis, who told them he wouldn't play here if they drafted him, and they did it anyway!

3. Stern the snake blocked the sale to the Laurie's who were at least forthcoming in their wanting to move the team. He then allowed Michael Heisley to buy the team, and he then told his ticket agents and sales reps to stop returning calls to companies. They stopped taking corporate moneys, they stopped selling suites. My company had 4 seats to the Grizzlies. We called to get a box and 1 more pair of seats and we tried over 3 months, to no avail. We never had our tickets bought and then out of the blue Heisley said he couldn't sell tickets and they moved the team. It was an outright lie.

The "Owner that had no money" was the guy who owned the Canucks. He wanted out of owning both shortly after developing GM place and sold to a very deep pockets guy in John McCaw, who is one of the richest americans in the world. McCaw then got out of the Basketball business because it was rumoured he was looking for a stake in the Sonics.

FYI: 2 groups are supposedly trying to get the NBA back here. The current Canucks owner is trying to get the Indiana Pacers, who are hemmoraging cash to move here, and the failed group that sued the current Nucks owners, moguls Ryan Beedie and Tom Gaglardi (The guy behing the move of the Thrashers to Hamilton) are trying to get a NBA team here too.

Basketball is not as regional or territorial as hockey. Every high school here has Basketball, and the two Canadian Universities here have good programs and actually play good ball.

Also our little area has developed Steve Nash and many current NCAA and Pro players.

We are not a smash-hit NBA market, but we are surely a better Market than Memphis or some other weird outposts the NBA are in now...

So you're saying that with a better showing from ownership and the players, a city that some might not consider an NBA market could have made it with a better team and strong ownership, had it only been given the chance.

And you my friend, have just squashed your own argument.

No i didn't.

The team was well received with good attendance and corporate support. When the team was finally sold to Heisley the team REFUSED to return calls to corporations and people looking to re up their committments to the club or to further their committments to the club. He cock-blocked them to convince Stern that a move should be allowed.

We were given a broken team, set up to failm then had it robbed from us. Stern has publicly gone on record as saying he regrets allowing heisley to move the team.

If the Grizzlies were never moved there is a good chance the Sonics would still be in Seattle.

I admitted to not being "a Smash-hit NBA market" but I'd said that we were a better market, imho, than Memphis and a good few other teams too.

The Asian and South Asian community is massive in this Pacific Rim city, and that particular peoples group LOVE basketball. That community alone could probably support the team by themselves.

Back on topic:

Here are some quotes by the Liar Gary Bettman from an article/opinion piece in the Ottawa Citizen:

"There are some issues out there. They are not, I repeat not, on life support." (1/23/09)

"The reports of the franchise's demise are just ridiculous. All of this blanket characterization of 'hockey doesn't work in the Sun Belt' is just hogwash." (2/4/09)

"We're looking or an infusion of capital and thinking about nothing else. We're talking to a number of people, but there's no sense of urgency." (3/26/09)

Nine days after that last beaut, lawyers were in bankruptcy court filing on behalf of the Phoenix Coyotes. The day after, Bettman was sounding all stand-by-your-man like Tammy Wynette. "When a franchise is in trouble, you try and fix the problems ... We don't run out on cities."

Bettman doesn't say what happens when the city runs out on the franchise. In Phoenix, fans stopped supporting the Coyotes when the team sank in the standings. Ottawa fans stuck with the Sens in the lean years when wins came in bunches of one. And Leaf fans -- OK, bad example, Leaf fans are not altogether right in the head.

That last bit on leafs fans is hilarious! :D

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

The Asian and South Asian community is massive in this Pacific Rim city, and that particular peoples group LOVE basketball. That community alone could probably support the team by themselves.

They don't call it Memphica for nothing. Haha

But seriously, how is this even different? Moyes worked something out with Balsillie so that the team would MOVE, not stay there.

I'm with Chippa on this.

[Chadd 916]

For those from Hamilton, how close to NHL standards is Copps? They just granted Balsillie an option on a 20 year lease and I was wondering how much they would have to dump into the arena to bring it to NHL standards for that long?

[RadioGaGa 162]

For those from Hamilton, how close to NHL standards is Copps? They just granted Balsillie an option on a 20 year lease and I was wondering how much they would have to dump into the arena to bring it to NHL standards for that long?

I've heard/read as little as 20M to have it ready for NHL hockey next season...and as much as 130M for a HUGE over haul. I think a lot of the first 20M is cosmetic...exterior paint, finish replacing the original seats, beef up existing Luxury Boxes. But, there are also some big projects...Scoreboard and Message Boards around the upper deck. Concessions really need to be addressed. Media facilities woudl have to be increased. The ice making/maintenacne needs a LOT of work...

The 130M would probably include adding a second concourse...and really do a number on new Luxury Boxes.

For as much work that Copps needs....the downtown core needs just as much. There is a seriously shortage of parking when Copps is full.

[Chadd 916]

For those from Hamilton, how close to NHL standards is Copps? They just granted Balsillie an option on a 20 year lease and I was wondering how much they would have to dump into the arena to bring it to NHL standards for that long?

I've heard/read as little as 20M to have it ready for NHL hockey next season...and as much as 130M for a HUGE over haul. I think a lot of the first 20M is cosmetic...exterior paint, finish replacing the original seats, beef up existing Luxury Boxes. But, there are also some big projects...Scoreboard and Message Boards around the upper deck. Concessions really need to be addressed. Media facilities woudl have to be increased. The ice making/maintenacne needs a LOT of work...

The 130M would probably include adding a second concourse...and really do a number on new Luxury Boxes.

For as much work that Copps needs....the downtown core needs just as much. There is a seriously shortage of parking when Copps is full.

I've heard some of those numbers as well, my question is more "what does it need to be an above average NHL arena?"

[RadioGaGa 162]

For those from Hamilton, how close to NHL standards is Copps? They just granted Balsillie an option on a 20 year lease and I was wondering how much they would have to dump into the arena to bring it to NHL standards for that long?

I've heard/read as little as 20M to have it ready for NHL hockey next season...and as much as 130M for a HUGE over haul. I think a lot of the first 20M is cosmetic...exterior paint, finish replacing the original seats, beef up existing Luxury Boxes. But, there are also some big projects...Scoreboard and Message Boards around the upper deck. Concessions really need to be addressed. Media facilities woudl have to be increased. The ice making/maintenacne needs a LOT of work...

The 130M would probably include adding a second concourse...and really do a number on new Luxury Boxes.

For as much work that Copps needs....the downtown core needs just as much. There is a seriously shortage of parking when Copps is full.

I've heard some of those numbers as well, my question is more "what does it need to be an above average NHL arena?"

...knocked down and re-built.

Anything else will be a retro-fit. It can't be an "above average NHL arena" in it's current state, IMO. I've been into the Press Box at Bell Centre. For comparison, if that (and buildings like it) are the Dubai Hilton...Copps is a Motel 6 in Spokane (no offense to Spokane)

[K9 Unit 1]

Game, set, match.

Let's move on now.

I hate BlackBerry phones. Therefore, let's not sell him the team.

lets sell it to Apple then lol...lets face it the iphone's way better

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Game, set, match.

Let's move on now.

I hate BlackBerry phones. Therefore, let's not sell him the team.

lets sell it to Apple then lol...lets face it the iphone's way better

iPhone's a toy, not a phone.

I'm a Palm guy through and through.

[K9 Unit 1]

lol blah...the palm is so old...but then again i have no use for microsoft word and stuff on my handheld

[Chadd 916]

For those from Hamilton, how close to NHL standards is Copps? They just granted Balsillie an option on a 20 year lease and I was wondering how much they would have to dump into the arena to bring it to NHL standards for that long?

I've heard/read as little as 20M to have it ready for NHL hockey next season...and as much as 130M for a HUGE over haul. I think a lot of the first 20M is cosmetic...exterior paint, finish replacing the original seats, beef up existing Luxury Boxes. But, there are also some big projects...Scoreboard and Message Boards around the upper deck. Concessions really need to be addressed. Media facilities woudl have to be increased. The ice making/maintenacne needs a LOT of work...

The 130M would probably include adding a second concourse...and really do a number on new Luxury Boxes.

For as much work that Copps needs....the downtown core needs just as much. There is a seriously shortage of parking when Copps is full.

I've heard some of those numbers as well, my question is more "what does it need to be an above average NHL arena?"

...knocked down and re-built.

Anything else will be a retro-fit. It can't be an "above average NHL arena" in it's current state, IMO. I've been into the Press Box at Bell Centre. For comparison, if that (and buildings like it) are the Dubai Hilton...Copps is a Motel 6 in Spokane (no offense to Spokane)

If I was the Hamilton or OP governments, I would be concerned that he would be looking for a new building soon.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

lol blah...the palm is so old...but then again i have no use for microsoft word and stuff on my handheld

Seen the Pre? :)

[Ahriman 1]

Game, set, match.

Let's move on now.

I hate BlackBerry phones. Therefore, let's not sell him the team.

lets sell it to Apple then lol...lets face it the iphone's way better

iPhone's a toy, not a phone.

I'm a Palm guy through and through.

Funny how my toy makes and receives telephone calls through the air

[RadioGaGa 162]

If I was the Hamilton or OP governments, I would be concerned that he would be looking for a new building soon.

Even if he comes to Hamilton...and as much as Mayor Fred says it won't be temporary....Balsillie will do whatever he wants....he'll break the lease build in KW in a couple years.

[canadian_man_44 0]

Game, set, match.

Let's move on now.

I hate BlackBerry phones. Therefore, let's not sell him the team.

lets sell it to Apple then lol...lets face it the iphone's way better

iPhone's a toy, not a phone.

I'm a Palm guy through and through.

I'm one of those guys that does technical support for the iPhone so I have an insider opinion of it. It is a toy. A toy that makes and receives calls(when it is working correctly), but still....a toy. The demograph for this device should be between 13 and 25. For anyone older(in maturity not necessarily years), this is a waste of money. Too many business people getting the iPhone only to find out that it is, in fact, a toy that is better off in the hands of their children.

Blackberries and Palms are way better.

Anyway, back to the topic. Here's hoping Basille can bring another NHL team back to Canada where it belongs.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Thank you!

My funniest experience was in Vegas at the hockey trade show...I walk into the Mission booth and I never paid for wi-fi for my laptop at the show, neither did any of the Mission employees. But they're sitting there with their computers on.

I asked them if they had a password, they didn't pay for it either. So, I calmly pull out my laptop, my USB sync cable, hook it up to my Treo, fire up my tethering software, and within 5 seconds on I'm on MSH. And the Mission guys stop playing games on their iPhones and look at me in amazement and say "HOW DID YOU DO THAT?"

[Chadd 916]

If I was the Hamilton or OP governments, I would be concerned that he would be looking for a new building soon.

Even if he comes to Hamilton...and as much as Mayor Fred says it won't be temporary....Balsillie will do whatever he wants....he'll break the lease build in KW in a couple years.

And that's the type of thing that scares the other owners

[chippa13 1844]

'canadian_man_44' date='May 14 2009, 10:19 AM' post='692689']

Game, set, match.

Let's move on now.

I hate BlackBerry phones. Therefore, let's not sell him the team.

lets sell it to Apple then lol...lets face it the iphone's way better

iPhone's a toy, not a phone.

I'm a Palm guy through and through.

I'm one of those guys that does technical support for the iPhone so I have an insider opinion of it. It is a toy. A toy that makes and receives calls(when it is working correctly), but still....a toy. The demograph for this device should be between 13 and 25. For anyone older(in maturity not necessarily years), this is a waste of money. Too many business people getting the iPhone only to find out that it is, in fact, a toy that is better off in the hands of their children.

Blackberries and Palms are way better.

Anyway, back to the topic. Here's hoping Basille can bring another NHL team back to Canada where it belongs.

I love when someone proves my point for me.

[furlanitalia 1]

Thank you!

My funniest experience was in Vegas at the hockey trade show...I walk into the Mission booth and I never paid for wi-fi for my laptop at the show, neither did any of the Mission employees. But they're sitting there with their computers on.

I asked them if they had a password, they didn't pay for it either. So, I calmly pull out my laptop, my USB sync cable, hook it up to my Treo, fire up my tethering software, and within 5 seconds on I'm on MSH. And the Mission guys stop playing games on their iPhones and look at me in amazement and say "HOW DID YOU DO THAT?"

Ahh, but real men with iPhones know how to tether them. But I will agree it is a lot of show. Still, not entirely enamored by the pre or anything else in Canada so can't see any reason to change.

As for the whole Balsillie thing, he couldn't gone about it a different way. He tried to cheat the system and therefore won't get a team. He would hemorrhage money just to bring one here, and then what would be left when the market he's picked is insufficient? And this whole Hockey belongs in Canada idea: yes, it is our sport. But i'd rather have 30 successful teams to watch, then see teams come to Canada, fail, and have the league shrink (although i'm sure that would never happen).

[canadian_man_44 0]

Didn't Basille try to get an NHL team the legitimate way before and Bettman wouldn't let him? Now he's trying another approach and I hope it works out for him.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Didn't Basille try to get an NHL team the legitimate way before and Bettman wouldn't let him? Now he's trying another approach and I hope it works out for him.

His bid on the Pens was on the up and up....then the NHL added clauses that gave him a walk away. (I may not be using the right terms...but that is my understanding of it)

Nashville was a fair bid...but his ticket selling to something he didn't own rubbed teh Leageu teh wrong way

That brings us to this.

[Chadd 916]

Didn't Basille try to get an NHL team the legitimate way before and Bettman wouldn't let him? Now he's trying another approach and I hope it works out for him.

First try: Said he wanted to buy the Penguins and backed out when the NHL made public the demand that the franchise stay in Pittsburgh

Second try: Said he was interested in buying the Nashville Predators and started taking deposits for tickets in Hamilton before he even had a signed letter of agreement to buy the team.

Third try: Phoenix

He has never tried to follow the rules as his goal all along has been to relocate the team and the NHL does not want relocation at this time.

[Sed27 0]

In today's age I'm wondering at what point the League would concede failure in a market and grant permission to relocate a franchise.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

As long as Bettman is in charge and trying to justify his existence: When hell freezes over.

[Sed27 0]

As long as Bettman is in charge and trying to justify his existence: When hell freezes over.

See this is the feeling I am getting too. I know the league is digging in its heels to a certain extent because of Balsillie's end run antics, but it seems like there was less resistance from the NHL when Winnipeg and Quebec relocated.

That said, maybe a Phoenix, Winnipeg/ Quebec comparision is an apples to oranges arguement.... I was fairly young when those teams moved and might be a little fuzzy on the details of the League's position at the time.

[Chadd 916]

As long as Bettman is in charge and trying to justify his existence: When hell freezes over.

See this is the feeling I am getting too. I know the league is digging in its heels to a certain extent because of Balsillie's end run antics, but it seems like there was less resistance from the NHL when Winnipeg and Quebec relocated.

That said, maybe a Phoenix, Winnipeg/ Quebec comparision is an apples to oranges arguement.... I was fairly young when those teams moved and might be a little fuzzy on the details of the League's position at the time.

When Quebec and Winnipeg relocated they had old arenas and were told that they would not get help in building new ones. Those arenas would not allow them to compete financially and would have resulted in both franchises filing for bankruptcy within a few years had they not been sold and relocated. Funny that people complain about those two but never mention Hartford moving to Carolina. And it's not like Denver has been a bad market for hockey. At worst you have one out of three relocations that hasn't been a success, so far.