Balsillie's Back

[RadioGaGa 162]

Daly to Balsillie:

"Meet ya by the bike-rack after school"

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=277920

[Johnny Law 0]

Simply put this isn't happening, Coyotes will be in Phoenix next year.

[chippa13 1844]

I don't see how that would destabilize the sabres, is there that many people from the hamilton and surrounding areas that are cheering for and supporting the sabres over the border??

I didn't know an American corporation could be so communist in it's anti-blah blah blahs last time I checked close competition ends up benefiting both teams one only has to look at how many soccer teams are in London, or the fact that Glasgow a city of 600,000 can support two soccer teams that have both their coffers filled to the brim all the time.

we're not talking about inserting another team in tampa bay for chrissakes this is Ontario a la' 'hockey factory' CANADA, and buffalo is almost Canada so lets bring the team there and let's play some fucking hockey, it's about time we see a (Canadian) owner that's got some balls and isn't smacking his forehead like Wang is over in long island every second of every day.

I'm sort of tired of the passive aggressive bullshit that bettman and his cronies pass on us, like we can't see right through him and stupid red tie that he's been rocking since he was made commish.

anyway, that's my opinion... for what's it's worth (obviously not the paper it's written on)

While there may be enough ticket sales to go around with another team in southern Ontario, there likely isn't enough corporate dollars to go around.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

I didn't know an American corporation could be so communist in it's anti-blah blah blahs last time I checked close competition ends up benefiting both teams one only has to look at how many soccer teams are in London, or the fact that Glasgow a city of 600,000 can support two soccer teams that have both their coffers filled to the brim all the time.

Not to mention that religion has dictated what team you support in Glasgow.

Hockey isn't at that level.

[QandA 0]

Did the NHL put as much effort into saving both Quebec and Winnipeg franchises as they are with Phoenix? There doesnt' seem to be much of an uproar in Phoenix over the possibility of losing a hockey team either...

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

No QandA, Bettman has been attempting to Hi-Jack the NHL from it's proper/hardcore regionally based fans of Canada and Pockets of the US and trying to turn it into David Stern's NBA for over a decade now.

Moving teams from Winnipeg to Phoenix and Quebec City to Denver was about getting a huge FOX tv deal. When Fox lost their shirt, after trying everything including a glowing puck and a comet's tail on the puck, even Mighty Fox couldn't sell the game on TV. CBS, ABC, and NBC will now have nothing to do with the NHL other than a revenue sharing deal which is Mickey Mouse at best.

We are all Hockey fans, you know you need to see it live to truly appreciate it. It is loke NASCAR, if you don't ever see it live you can't truly appreciate how fast they are going when you watch it on TV.

People in Miami, Atlanta, Raleigh-Durham, Tampa, etc etc etc have not grown up playing, watching, studying the game. if you can get it to work great, but the gamble has only really paid off in Tampa (A big Snow Bird element, plus the spinoff revenue more than covers the losses of the actual NHL operation) and Raleigh where the Canes are the only show in town and are well supported when they are winning.

I suspect the NHL is wanting to EXPAND to Southern Ontario, and as such will fetch a high expansion fee, however Butthead Bettman needs to clean up his failed dream experiment first to save the NHL owners. I suspect Balsillie would pay up to 300M for an expansion team, but God only knows when that could come...buying a poor and broke team for slightly above market value is good business for him and the current owners, just not bettman, because it would be evidence one that his experiment failed, in proof, not just heresay.

[chippa13 1844]

Tampa (A big Snow Bird element, plus the spinoff revenue more than covers the losses of the actual NHL operation) and Raleigh where the Canes are the only show in town and are well supported when they are winning.

The area of the Panthers is just as heavily laden with snowbirds as Tampa. The only thing slowing the growth is a consistent winner, just like about every other NHL city. Not so long ago, the Bruins and Blackhawks were playing before friends and family, and even they were begging out of the games. Boston/Anaheim playing before barely over 9,000 ring a bell? I suppose the Boston market isn't viable either because folks don't show up when they aren't winning. Maybe we should have put Chicago into Hamilton?

Bottom line, fans back a winner and disappear on a loser, it doesn't matter what city you're in, except that some fans jump ship faster than others.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

I will agree to an extent chippa13.

Thing is that Chicago has hockey in the community, it's part of the fabric of the sporting landscape, a far cry from participation in Baseball, Basketball, and football I'm sure...but you have NHL'ers from Illinois, Massachusetts, etc. I could be wrong: But I have yet to see a pro player born, raised, and developed in Tennesee, Florida, Georgia, the carolina's etc. Just now we are seeing some kids from California playing and getting drafted (I think of Jon Blum) and that is kind of coupled with the Gretz' move to LA and how well hockey has done in the state of california since the early 90's.

South Florida (The Panthers more than anything else) is too far away from a Hockey town, that you would have to have so much sideshows and a perrenial cup favorite to sell out regularly. If the ownership has other interests that can cover the losses of the NHL team than I guess that is up to him to decide.

Also, for those making arguments about the Canadian teams durng the 90's that were struggling...the issues were mostly building realted. It was the ability to drive revenue based on Corporate Suites etc on a poor performing dollar in canada. No NHL team in canada has non NHL building's anymore save perhaps the Flames and Oil (who are going to be getting a new rink now that Kates owns the team) That is a red herring. The Philips arena, the Jobing.com arena etc all have massive corporate suites and excellent buildings in which to drive revenue and thus profit... it just isn't being accomplished for a variety of reasons, chief amongst them: They are Not Hockey Markets. It would be like putting an NBA Franchise in Calgary. People there might shoot hopps from time to time, but most people are playing Hockey, Soccer, Football, and Golf. Not Baseball, Not Basketball... it is a foreign and regional thing.

the Blackhawks also had a terrible owner (RIP) that had archaic ancient thought processes on how to market his team. not broadcasting Home games on TV had a lot to do with poor attendance. Once Wurtz Sr Died Rocky Wurtz and Company spent a bit of money and....voila: The Hawks have averaged a 200%+ gain in ST Revenue and have averaged 22.5k per game in the playoffs. It is not rocket science or magic...

Same goes for the Bruins, They brought in a good group to run and manage the team and look: The Fans came back! Jacobs is allowing his younger family more input and control and has "Let go" so to speak and Cam Neely and Peter chiarelli are doing an awesome job.

[Chadd 916]

I will agree to an extent chippa13.

Thing is that Chicago has hockey in the community, it's part of the fabric of the sporting landscape, a far cry from participation in Baseball, Basketball, and football I'm sure...but you have NHL'ers from Illinois, Massachusetts, etc. I could be wrong: But I have yet to see a pro player born, raised, and developed in Tennesee, Florida, Georgia, the carolina's etc. Just now we are seeing some kids from California playing and getting drafted (I think of Jon Blum) and that is kind of coupled with the Gretz' move to LA and how well hockey has done in the state of california since the early 90's.

South Florida (The Panthers more than anything else) is too far away from a Hockey town, that you would have to have so much sideshows and a perrenial cup favorite to sell out regularly. If the ownership has other interests that can cover the losses of the NHL team than I guess that is up to him to decide.

Also, for those making arguments about the Canadian teams durng the 90's that were struggling...the issues were mostly building realted. It was the ability to drive revenue based on Corporate Suites etc on a poor performing dollar in canada. No NHL team in canada has non NHL building's anymore save perhaps the Flames and Oil (who are going to be getting a new rink now that Kates owns the team) That is a red herring. The Philips arena, the Jobing.com arena etc all have massive corporate suites and excellent buildings in which to drive revenue and thus profit... it just isn't being accomplished for a variety of reasons, chief amongst them: They are Not Hockey Markets. It would be like putting an NBA Franchise in Calgary. People there might shoot hopps from time to time, but most people are playing Hockey, Soccer, Football, and Golf. Not Baseball, Not Basketball... it is a foreign and regional thing.

the Blackhawks also had a terrible owner (RIP) that had archaic ancient thought processes on how to market his team. not broadcasting Home games on TV had a lot to do with poor attendance. Once Wurtz Sr Died Rocky Wurtz and Company spent a bit of money and....voila: The Hawks have averaged a 200%+ gain in ST Revenue and have averaged 22.5k per game in the playoffs. It is not rocket science or magic...

Same goes for the Bruins, They brought in a good group to run and manage the team and look: The Fans came back! Jacobs is allowing his younger family more input and control and has "Let go" so to speak and Cam Neely and Peter chiarelli are doing an awesome job.

What's the excuse for Buffalo a few years back or the Pens before Crosby and only a decade or so after back to back cup wins? Winning and excitement bring people to the building, losing and lackluster performance empty it out. Unless you're talking about Toronto. I'm not sure those fans would recognize great hockey anymore.

[chippa13 1844]

Bruins fans didn't come back because Jeremy Jacobs supposedly relinquished control. They came back because the team started winning. Give the Panthers/Coyotes/etc a few playoffs appearances and suddenly you'll see the buildings fill up.

Boston is a baseball town, except when the Sox are losing, then it is pick your seat night at Fenway. Patriots tickets couldn't be given away for years, they put a winner on the field and now you've got a waiting list a mile long for season tickets.

And you're right, there's no hockey in the community in Florida.......

http://www.floridaahl.com/

http://orlandostars.org/

http://www.incredibleice.com/hockey.php

[Johnny Law 0]

Did the NHL put as much effort into saving both Quebec and Winnipeg franchises as they are with Phoenix? There doesnt' seem to be much of an uproar in Phoenix over the possibility of losing a hockey team either...

I don't know about either of those questions but a lot of this has to do with Balsillie trying to screw with the NHL.

Bettman, The Board of Governor's and their lawyers spent alot of time making sure that contractually a team cannot under any circumstances move without the approval of the NHL. Balsillie is essentially poking them in the eye with the legal case and such, as unless the judge makes the bold step of bypassing the board of governors and directly ruling on Balsillie's case there is little to no chance that the board would approve him moving the team.

As the current offer is written Balsillie's offer is null and void if he cannot move the team so even though he has far more money than other potential bidders the NHL can keep him out as long as the team cannot be moved. This is where I don't understand what Balsillie is doing, general procedure in the courts is for the bankruptcy judge to approve whatever the highest bid is, if his offer was not conditional the NHL is forced to give him a franchise as there isn't anyone out there who can outbid him and he may be able to move the team at a later date.

The only other option is for Balisille to go for an anti-trust case, this is bad bad bad as penalties are X3. Needless to say the NHL is probably aware of this and is protected against such cases.

Bottom line is Phoenix is staying in Phoenix they just need to find someone to pick up the tab.

[JohnnyCanuck 0]

Bruins fans didn't come back because Jeremy Jacobs supposedly relinquished control. They came back because the team started winning. Give the Panthers/Coyotes/etc a few playoffs appearances and suddenly you'll see the buildings fill up.

Boston is a baseball town, except when the Sox are losing, then it is pick your seat night at Fenway. Patriots tickets couldn't be given away for years, they put a winner on the field and now you've got a waiting list a mile long for season tickets.

And you're right, there's no hockey in the community in Florida.......

http://www.floridaahl.com/

http://orlandostars.org/

http://www.incredibleice.com/hockey.php

I never said it was absent from FLA, I said it wasn't something kids grow up doing, at least not until recently. How many NHL'ers are from FLA!? I implore you. and reastically the NHL on Florida isn;t that bad due to the Bolts and Cats having great agrrangements on their buildings.

I realize everything is cyclical, like winning is. However some situations are doomed to failure, most specifically the Yotes and Preds, because of either the city or the precarious arrangements with buildings.

[Chadd 916]

Bruins fans didn't come back because Jeremy Jacobs supposedly relinquished control. They came back because the team started winning. Give the Panthers/Coyotes/etc a few playoffs appearances and suddenly you'll see the buildings fill up.

Boston is a baseball town, except when the Sox are losing, then it is pick your seat night at Fenway. Patriots tickets couldn't be given away for years, they put a winner on the field and now you've got a waiting list a mile long for season tickets.

And you're right, there's no hockey in the community in Florida.......

http://www.floridaahl.com/

http://orlandostars.org/

http://www.incredibleice.com/hockey.php

I never said it was absent from FLA, I said it wasn't something kids grow up doing, at least not until recently. How many NHL'ers are from FLA!? I implore you. and reastically the NHL on Florida isn;t that bad due to the Bolts and Cats having great agrrangements on their buildings.

I realize everything is cyclical, like winning is. However some situations are doomed to failure, most specifically the Yotes and Preds, because of either the city or the precarious arrangements with buildings.

Once they've been playing hockey in Florida for a hundred years or so, you'll see more NHL players that were born and raised there.

[Jordan 13]

While there may be enough ticket sales to go around with another team in southern Ontario, there likely isn't enough corporate dollars to go around.

There is plenty of corp. $$$ for hockey in southern Ontario. Trust me, if the Raptors can sell out their suites (and they have) another corporate support of another hockey team is easily done.

All this talk about the sunbelt teams reminds me of Jack Kent Cooke quote, when he owned the Los Angeles Kings and they were struggling with attendance in the early days:

Two million Canadians living in California, and they all apparently moved here because they hate hockey!

[Ahriman 1]

the Blackhawks also had a terrible owner (RIP) that had archaic ancient thought processes on how to market his team. not broadcasting Home games on TV had a lot to do with poor attendance. Once Wurtz Sr Died Rocky Wurtz and Company spent a bit of money and....voila: The Hawks have averaged a 200%+ gain in ST Revenue and have averaged 22.5k per game in the playoffs. It is not rocket science or magic...

It's true! Growing up in Chicago I was embarassed by the blackhawks for years, people say "oh you're huge on hockey, you're a blackhawk's fan then?"

Always answered the same "Hell no" I followed the good players who came through Chicago, but they made it extremely hard to be a fan.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Bruins fans didn't come back because Jeremy Jacobs supposedly relinquished control. They came back because the team started winning. Give the Panthers/Coyotes/etc a few playoffs appearances and suddenly you'll see the buildings fill up.

Boston is a baseball town, except when the Sox are losing, then it is pick your seat night at Fenway. Patriots tickets couldn't be given away for years, they put a winner on the field and now you've got a waiting list a mile long for season tickets.

And you're right, there's no hockey in the community in Florida.......

http://www.floridaahl.com/

http://orlandostars.org/

http://www.incredibleice.com/hockey.php

I never said it was absent from FLA, I said it wasn't something kids grow up doing, at least not until recently. How many NHL'ers are from FLA!? I implore you. and reastically the NHL on Florida isn;t that bad due to the Bolts and Cats having great agrrangements on their buildings.

I realize everything is cyclical, like winning is. However some situations are doomed to failure, most specifically the Yotes and Preds, because of either the city or the precarious arrangements with buildings.

I lived in Miami and attended Panthers games at Miami Arena during the 1996 Cup run. EVERYONE was into it. Then they took a risk and moved the team out to the suburbs (even though a downtown arena was being built at the exact same time) and killed off any new fans (Miami residents, Hispanics) they got in 96.

I also lived close enough to Tampa and attended Lightning games during the 2004 Cup run. What hurt the Bolts was the lockout the next year.

Chippa's right - but couple that with the fact that you have a lot of transplanted fans who cheer for their team when they come to town. Have to understand the FL climate when it comes to pro sports. Very fickle state.

[Drewhunz 3]

Except for fans of Tha U right?

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

UM's student body isn't very big, not compared to the other schools in the state. Not to mention it's a private school. UM's always been known as a team that doesn't travel well.

And UM's always played second fiddle to the Dolphins in Miami.

[Law Goalie 147]

What's the excuse for Buffalo a few years back or the Pens before Crosby and only a decade or so after back to back cup wins? Winning and excitement bring people to the building, losing and lackluster performance empty it out. Unless you're talking about Toronto. I'm not sure those fans would recognize great hockey anymore.

While I'm not really a Leafs fan, I can say that the fun part is the struggle to find the good things. Hell, a good shift gets talked about for a solid week.

The CBC and TSN homers help fuel that nicely.

That's why expansion would work here: no matter how bad the team, they would still rake in at the gate. I would rather watch a bad NHL team get hammered and delight in the tiny technical minutiae of the game than watch anything else.

The only times I stopped watching Leaf games were at the height of their struggles under Maurice. They became intolerably boring. Same reason I couldn't watch the Sens under Hartsburg, or the Wild ever.

What will always kill a team, as JR implied, or at the very least sour the milk is a poorly-chosen location. I'm convinced that's a third of the reason the Sens' crowds suck (the other 66% being evenly divided between the terrible arena and the nature of the Ottawa Valley residents, from which I do not exempt myself).

[K9 Unit 1]

the only reason i'm for another team in southern ontario is so that i can get some cheaper tickets to watch the leafs lol

[Chadd 916]

What's the excuse for Buffalo a few years back or the Pens before Crosby and only a decade or so after back to back cup wins? Winning and excitement bring people to the building, losing and lackluster performance empty it out. Unless you're talking about Toronto. I'm not sure those fans would recognize great hockey anymore.

While I'm not really a Leafs fan, I can say that the fun part is the struggle to find the good things. Hell, a good shift gets talked about for a solid week.

The CBC and TSN homers help fuel that nicely.

That's why expansion would work here: no matter how bad the team, they would still rake in at the gate. I would rather watch a bad NHL team get hammered and delight in the tiny technical minutiae of the game than watch anything else.

The only times I stopped watching Leaf games were at the height of their struggles under Maurice. They became intolerably boring. Same reason I couldn't watch the Sens under Hartsburg, or the Wild ever.

What will always kill a team, as JR implied, or at the very least sour the milk is a poorly-chosen location. I'm convinced that's a third of the reason the Sens' crowds suck (the other 66% being evenly divided between the terrible arena and the nature of the Ottawa Valley residents, from which I do not exempt myself).

Again, I'm in favor of another team in Toronto, just not one in a position that will kill a long term franchise like Buffalo.

[D3nZ 0]

I would love to see a team in Hamilton, but I would think there are other canadian markets like Winnipeg and Quebec that should see teams before them. Unfortunatly MTS Center is too small for an NHL team and Quebec's Colisée is out as a viable arena. Yes there are plans for a new arena in Québec but we are still years from steel and concrete being put on the site

[Larry54 243]

Haha! Now check this out.

More fun for Buttman!

[top 1974 0]

Are the Thrashers are in play as well.......?

http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/...ortsHockey/home

[Chadd 916]

Are the Thrashers are in play as well.......?

http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/...ortsHockey/home

Yes, it's in the post directly above yours.