Don Cherry blasts Ovechkin on HNIC

[chippa13 1844]

It's called CLASS.

And Don Cherry is the best arbitrator of that?

Are you kidding me

Attack the message, not the messenger.

I can see this argument if we were talking about high school hockey where there is a sense of cockiness or arrogance when a player jumps into the glass or something. But since when does OV give a damn about Pronger's feelings? This is your OPPONENT. These are the same people creaming you into the boards when you fly up the wing or into the corner. You don't owe him anything from the start of the game, to the end. Before and after? sure. be classy and respectful. But once the puck drops, I'm sorry but anything goes. (obvious exceptions like hitting from behind...ect) You just scored a goal on them, be excited. Maybe your too old school and I'm too new school for any type of middle ground here, but i find your philosophy boring and out dated.

You are 100% right that Ovy doesn't have to give a damn about Pronger, or anybody else's, feelings. Cherry is just making the point that while he may not care about Pronger's feelings, he'll certainly care about Pronger's elbow when he sticks it in his chops. You celebrate like that, someone is going to take a run at you, that's what Cherry was saying.

And just because you think Cherry doesn't have class, doesn't mean that he isn't right about this subject or doesn't know anything about hockey. Half of this thread is people just bitching about Don Cherry, rather than actually trying to argue against his point, which is simply that Ovechkin's celebrations are over the top, disrespectful to the game and his opponenets, and if he isn't careful someone is going to take a run at him because of it.

Hell, when I see guy's celebrating too much in my men's league I make a mental note of it. Not that I intend to pay them back physically, moreso I'd rather just score against them and let them know about it....but in the NHL, you are crazy if you don't think a few guys have seen OV's act and have taken his number down because of it.

I contend that Pronger sticking his elbow in someone's chops is far more disrespectful of the game than Ovechkin celebrating a goal by pumping his fist or jumping up against the glass. In Pronger's case, he is intentionally breaking a rule and attempting to injure a fellow member of the league. In fact, if he succeeds in injuring someone of the caliber of an Ovechkin or a Crosby, he will by definition lower the quality and the value of the league. On the other hand, if Ovechkin leaps up against the glass after scoring, he may well be drawing attenion to himself, but he is also drawing attention to the fact that he loves playing the game. God forbid high profile celebrations of the game.

Just because Pronger might not be able to control his junior high testosterone frenzy in your hypothetical doesn't mean that Cherry should be calling for Ovechkin to rein in the game's best advertisement. If anything, the prospect of Pronger's elbow drilling Ovechkin's head suggests to me that Cherry ought to be cheerleading the league's attempt to reduce blows to the head. Cherry ought to make himself useful and start agitating against blows to the head. Then he'd really be advancing the sport by protecting its most valuable asset: its players.

The game's best advertisement is [insert player name here] hoisting the Cup with the emotion of X years of chasing that dream. Ovechkin jumping around like he scored his first goal ever? Not so much.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

It's called CLASS.

And Don Cherry is the best arbitrator of that?

Are you kidding me

Attack the message, not the messenger.

When the messenger is exhibiting the traits he claims he hates, then questioning the messenger is certainly above board.

Don Cherry goes out of his way to be in your face, goes out of his way to put hockey players down (french-canadians/europeans who don't play how he thinks they should, as if there is only one way to play the game), he goes out of his way to be colorful.

Then he criticizes ovechkin for being in your face (which he is not), disrespectful (which he is not) and over the top (which is an individuals own perspective), while doing all these things himself.

If don cherry displayed the traits he claims should be prevalent, then no one would have cause to go after the messenger. But when he can ignore the obvious double standards, and then go on to behave like a child (as he did this week when he intentionally mis-pronounced Caps owner Ted Leonsis' name), then he opens the door on messenger critique

Here is what John Buccigross said about it...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/stor...&id=3955259

Here are the exerps

Now, I understand how it can offend some in the hockey community, especially older people like Don Cherry. Most of that comes from nostalgia. We find comfort in our generation. It is familiar and comforting. Cherry comes from a time when everybody pretty much looked alike and thought alike.

We have addressed NHL celebrations a lot in this space this season. We have proclaimed that goal celebrations are 99.9 percent all-inclusive, team-orientated events. We have announced how we don't like "look at me" celebrations we see in soccer and the NFL

...

Ovechkin: First of all, if he is committing a sin as a result of his exuberance, it is hardly a mortal one. He scores, takes his mouth guard out, raises his left hand, slides along the ice on his knee and, sometimes, jumps up against the glass. He then quickly hugs and smiles with his teammates. When a teammate scores a goal, Ovechkin is equally as jubilant, usually the first one to offer heartfelt congratulations.

I find nothing phony or insincere about Ovechkin after he, or one of his teammates, scores a goal. It's an amped-up world and an amped-up game. The arena atmosphere is all about adrenaline. In fact, take out the "D" in adrenaline and the first five letters spell "arena." Ray Bourque loved scoring goals. He got down on one knee and did a windmill motion with his arms like he was waving in the go-ahead run. Wayne Gretzky LOVED scoring goals. Everyone -- players and fans -- goes a little nuts when a goal is scored; that's because it's so hard to score!

Now, hurling oneself up against the glass seems like a little much at times, but at least it is based on joy.

[chippa13 1844]

First, Bucci got Bourque's goal celebration wrong. It was down on one knee and a pump or two of the arm, hardly the windmill motion. Second, noone doubts that players love scoring goals. That also has nothing to do with the discussion. Did Brett Hull not love scoring goals? I guess so because he was so calm and sedate after he potted them. Does Datsyuk despise lighting the lamp? He must, there is hardly a reaction out of him. Etc, Etc..............

[interpathway 9]

The game's best advertisement is [insert player name here] hoisting the Cup with the emotion of X years of chasing that dream.

What happened to the argument that what happens between the whistles should sell the game?

I loved watching Ray hoist the SC with the Avs as much as the next guy. Scoring goals at a breathtaking pace and winning the SC are both things a hockey player should be proud of. Just because they're not equal in their magnitude, don't both deserve their own celebrations?

[chippa13 1844]

The game's best advertisement is [insert player name here] hoisting the Cup with the emotion of X years of chasing that dream.

What happened to the argument that what happens between the whistles should sell the game?

I loved watching Ray hoist the SC with the Avs as much as the next guy. Scoring goals at a breathtaking pace and winning the SC are both things a hockey player should be proud of. Just because they're not equal in their magnitude, don't both deserve their own celebrations?

Nothing happened to it. Hoisting the Cup is the best ad but the best way to sell the game to newbies is showcasing the excitement that happens between whistles. To be honest, one of my favorite ads is the one with a continuous play strung together with bits from years of the NHL, kids, and even a touch of pond hockey.

[hockeyshmockey10 0]

cherry going off on baseball now. ryan braun hits a home-run and pumps his fist. cherry is a total idiot.

[RiSeOnFiRe 0]

'You people don't understand sports, I do!' Wow. This guy gets dumber and dumber after each segment i watch. People actually listen to this guy? sheesh. You can hardly compare some random rookie in a preseason game to Alexander Ovechkin who scored 60+ goals last year. The macho walk, staring at the bench is TOTALLY different than Ov's jumping into the glass. You don't see the cockiness in Ovechkin, you see joy. If he scores then turns, jaw clenches, waiving his arms for the fans to stand, then sure. But he doesn't do that. Cherry is a tool. end of story.

Oh, and for the don't hate the messenger, hate the message thing.. umm... I don't think there's someone whispering in his ear what to say. that was cherry's opinion, so yes, hate the messenger, for he is a moron.

[chippa13 1844]

He was right. A rookie, especially a rookie, shining up a home run. That is a big no-no. I guess you skipped the part where the kid's own manager game him grief for it.

Edit: And I didn't say "don't hate the messenger", I said "don't attack the messenger". Two completely different statements.

[RiSeOnFiRe 0]

Any moron watching that would be able to tell that was a stupid play.

[chippa13 1844]

Any moron watching that would be able to tell that was a stupid play.

So you get it now? <_<

[RiSeOnFiRe 0]

Any moron watching that would be able to tell that was a stupid play.

So you get it now? <_<

apparently you don't. If you think him and Ovechkin can even be related i think you need your head examined.

[interpathway 9]

He was right. A rookie, especially a rookie, shining up a home run.

How about a rookie showing up a classy veteran?

[1stLiner91 0]

Maybe I'm a little confused.. since when are you supposed to be conserved and show no emotion after a goal? That's the point of the game right? to score? So when you win the cup, which is the point of the whole season, are you supposed to stand there and say, 'oh that's cool, we won'? No. you jump all over your teammates, shout, go crazy. Its called PASSION. and its something this league has been severely lacking. Ovechkin brings it night after night and Cherry is just pissed its not some Canadian boy. THAT'S what brings in the new fans, the passion. These people are on the ice to ENTERTAIN us. I cant believe they give that racist hypocrite his own segment..

It's called CLASS.

You are beyond reasoning with if you can't see why there should be a difference in how you celebrate when you win the Stanley Cup and when you score a first period goal in November.

I love the passion Ovy plays with, I just would like to see him reel it in a bit on the goal celebrations. I don't think he is intentionally showing up his opponent, but regardless of his intent, he's still showing them up. I guarantee an old school player like Pronger isn't saying to himself on the bench. "ah, he's just having fun" while Ovechkin jumps around the ice after a goal. And just because players aren't coming out in the media saying they don't appreciate his antics doesn't mean Don Cherry is the only person in hockey that has a bit of a problem with it.

Cherry is a xenophobe, maybe even a racist....but he's also one of the most knowledgable hockey people in the media, he watches dozens of hockey games a week at every level, he's been around pro hockey for probably close to 50 years. He knows what he is talking about. If you can get by the histronics and bluster and really boil it down to what he is saying, the fact is, he is usually right.

but maybe he's wrong this time

[rebel96 0]

Been watching this thread since it opened. Some pretty interesting views.

To some degree I agree with what Cherry is saying, to some degree I don't.

Firstly, lets agree that Ovechkin is a phenomenal talent. A player that combines, ridiculous skill, vision, speed, strength, intensity and, yes, passion for the game. He is fantastic to watch.

Personally I wouldn't celebrate goals like he does. Certainly not in every little situation. I find it funny how even if he's standing still when he scores the goal, he'll sprint off from where he was to celebrate. In that regard, it's kinda like a football (soccer) celebration without the jersey swinging etc. I don't think anyone can deny he is an over the top kinda guy. The cars he drives, the clothes he wears, his raggedy hair, even the stupid breakaway stunt at the all-star game (which I can't believe won it for him).

On the other hand I don't really have a problem with him celebrating that way. It's not completely moronic. I think what people having been saying here about entertainment for the fans is correct in a lot of ways. I doubt that anyone in the sold out Verizon crowds would say that they were there purely to see OV jump around like a loony. They'd be happy if he played the way he does, scored simply breath-taking goals, and then gave a little glove bump to his teammates. However, I do believe that that moment when your player scores a goal is a chance for the crowd to get involved and OV's celebrations allow them to do just that. And for that reason what he does is an asset to the league.

From other teams perspective, it no doubt grinds them the wrong way, on different levels depending on the player. I doubt anyone likes to get scored against, not to mention being "shown up" by an "over the top" celebration in their own building, for instance. This is where I think OV would be wise, if he could manage to reign in his youthful passion and exuberance, to tailor his celebrations to his situation.

Sure, first or second goal of the game, go nuts. Third goal, a little less nuts, unless it's a hatty (although rick nash didn't). Nash:

Ovechkin:

If Caps are running up the score I would think he should tone it down a lot. Or if they're on the road I don't think any jumping off the glass would be in order, for example.

I do think Cherry could be right, though, about players gunning for him in the future, although maybe not for his showmanship. I think his intensity tends to get the better of him on occasion. Sometimes he comes a long way to make a big hit, leaving positions uncovered. And I think on a large proportion of his hard hits he leaves his feet.

Nevertheless, I think he is an amazing talent and I love watching to see what he'll do next. He is good for the league.

Cherry, in my opinion, with his eccentric suits, his voice so loud you'd think he swallowed a megaphone, is good for hockey, especially in Canada. Anyone who doesn't respect his views at least thinks he's funny/ridiculous and he's good for the odd piece of controversy, which gets people talking as much as any goal that OV scores.

To lose either would do the sport of hockey a great blow.

[phunky_monkey 6]

^^^ Very well said, absolutley spot on in my opinion.

[chippa13 1844]

Any moron watching that would be able to tell that was a stupid play.

So you get it now? <_<

apparently you don't. If you think him and Ovechkin can even be related i think you need your head examined.

The comparison is sticking to the tradition of the game. Come on, it wasn't that hard to see the connection.

He was right. A rookie, especially a rookie, shining up a home run.

How about a rookie showing up a classy veteran?

I have always been vocal about getting diving or going down rather easy out of the game. It drives me crazy that Savard pulls that crap sometimes. That, however, is a different discussion from the one here.

[interpathway 9]

No I know. I was just trying to draw a comparison between the baseball and hockey anecdotes.

[RiSeOnFiRe 0]

Hockeys biggest fault is its inability to grow and adapt to the current market. Sticking to tradition got 'The big 4' turned into 'The big 3' what sells tickets and puts people in the stands is not done by listening to purists and traditionalists like Cherry. Its done by opening your eyes and realizing that youth, passion, excitement sell. Its about what excites the fans. and ill be damned if the seats near the glass in the corners of the verizon centre are not coveted seats. Fan emmersion is something the NHL needs, and while there obviously has to be glass, jumping into it is the closest you can get. Think Lambo Leap. Its legendary. Not childish.

[chippa13 1844]

Yeah, the Lambeau leap and guys jumping into the glass are what draws fan.

Sidenote: Burrows shooting the arrow after his goal last night may have been the gayest thing I have ever seen done in a professional hockey game.

[sitzlejd 0]

I guess I'd land somewhere in the middle on this one. I don't dislike what Ovechkin does, but like an earlier poster stated, situation should play a factor (blowout, overtime, playoffs, etc.). Sometimes I wish guys like Nash would show more emotion b/c it does make the game a bit more fun to watch. I still don't like anything involving props or elaborate setups (bow and arrow, canoeing, pushups, etc.).

So basically I guess I add nothing to this debate...

[hockeyguy39 0]

i dont know what to say in htis this situation i like both cherry and ovechkin but i think ovechkin does over celebrate

[Aussie Joe 0]

I think Don Cherry lost allot of credibility in that argument when he compared Hockey to Soccer. Sorry they are so completely different, its like the old apples vs oranges argument.

There are plenty of guys who will be peeved at Ovy's celebrations, but he's a big strong guy who have proven he can handle himself physically before. Cherry's predictions of doom are a little near sighted, as there is also the team's enforcers who will burn anyone that tries anything on Ovy. I think he's gonna be safe for a little while.

[Esa_10 1]

Did anyone see this past Saturday's coach's corner? He does a bit of a follow up, talking about the Fluery (a good canadian prarie boy) knee slides against Edmonton in the 80s. He doesn't like that either - and according to Gary Roberts, Fleury's team-mates also didn't like it. I konw this is the "old boys" line of thinking. But still interesting.

I don't mind what OV does, but if it's something that's gonna give the other team incentive/motive to play better (which is Cherry's point) why would you do it?

Playoffs are different story, when every goal means so much, everyone goes nuts! Anyone remember Radulov giving Arnott a concusion on a goal celebration last year - knocked him out of the playoffs? That's what I think of when I see the caps celebrate - one of these times someone's going to get hurt.

I lost my front teeth celerating a big goal in Jr. Got an accidental buttend in the teeth in the dog pile lol.

[mrusse01 0]

Interesting point by Cherry (and MacLain) that OV has seemingly toned down his celebrations since this 'controversy' started. Anybody who watches the Caps on a regular basis care to confirm or deny that? Sure looked like Cherry was right with the clips they showed on Saturday night.

[interpathway 9]

I thought that too, but I've also noticed through his career that sometimes he has a couple down games celebration wise. Cherry may have sparked it this time, but I can bet you they'll be back come April.