M.J.'s death: the medias' hypocrisy

[Hidious 0]

I am still fairly young and for as far as i can remember, i've only heard negative claims about Michael Jackson until... 3 days ago. Thanks to the medias, i thought MJ was a pedophile who had been through an endless amount of plastic surgeries, turning his skin white. Turns out he was innocent, had a skin disease and had only been through two plastic surgeries, nothing out of the ordinary.

So when i listened to Jon LaJoie's latest song i thought: this guy speaks the truth.

What do you guys think? Good point or totally inappropriate?

Some of you may be offended by this video since Jon LaJoie's sense of humor is very sarcastic. The song is not against MJ at all, it's a critic of the medias. It also contains coarse language.

[cptjeff 0]

Damn good point if you ask me. I'm also kind of sick of all the coverage he's been getting. He's dead, I got the point, thanks. Don't need to see the news clips a thousand times. It's not like he was somebody who had any real significance to world events or anything, just an entertainer. I think former presidents dying have gotten less coverage.

[Jason Harris 31]

1) We don't know whether he was innocent; we only know that he was acquitted. As a father, I would say that a fully grown man having young children sleep in bed with him is not innocent, and the parents of the children are equal culpable. Even if nothing more strange than just sleeping together occurred.

2) It doesn't matter whether it was one plastic surgery or twenty. It's sad what he did to his appearance. He went from a fairly attractive male in his early twenties to nearly a mockery of a human.

3) Many of us have seen people with the "bleaching" skin disease. It tends to create a blotchy look throughout that person's body, particularly around their hands and face. Because I never saw a similar blotchiness on MJ, I always felt the story of the skin disease was a PR spin. But this one man's opinion only.

I think he was an incredibly talented artist, but Exhibit A that growing up in the public eye with domineering stage parents will generally screw up your psyche.

[Hidious 0]

Yea, i get what you're saying but let's not point this thread towards MJ himself, if he was innocent or not, etc. It would get locked in less than a day.

Jason, from your reply, i'm guessing you had a negative or at least slightly negative opinion of MJ. Now that he's dead, i suppose you haven't changed your opinion all of a sudden, right? I guess you aren't paying tribute or venerating his greatness either? Well then, you make sense and show some forthrightness.

The medias, on the opposite, have gone from "Michael Jackson is a pedophile monster, a hideous freak" to "Michael Jackson was the greatest human being ever born". Hypocrites, "two-faced f*ckers"? Looks like it to me.

[Jason Harris 31]

Even though my post may seem otherwise, I actually don't have so much a negative view of him as I do a feeling that he was a victim. I think his childhood was stolen from him. It was taken from his other siblings as well, but none of the brothers were marketed as much during the Jackson 5 heyday, so they probably had the chance to more privacy. It seems to be similarly true for Janet; she was in her late teens when she gained some solo notoriety.

Now that I realize I misunderstood the point of your original post, I agree with you. If he hadn't died, the media would have been talking about Wacko Jacko's comeback tour this fall. Instead, they're fawning over him, rather than giving a more measured story of his life. Of course, musically, he truly was the King of Pop for about 3-5 years in the early 80's.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

To be honest, I think MJ was an very distrubed individual that suffered greatly as the result of childhood abuse. I really don't know whether he molested kids, or was just a target with enough cash to make it worth while. I will say that we're almost 30 years removed from the height of his popularity and without then sensation resulting from his criminal charges the reports on his death would be no greater than that of any other 80's pop act. It wasn't that long ago that his comeback album was gathering dust on store shelves, so I'd have to say that it's a bit difficult to call him a timeless musical legend.

[chk hrd 164]

It's not just MJ or even public figures. How many times have you heard someone spoken ill of and they pass away, next thing you know everyone talks about how great they were. It probably has something to do with the old adage of speaking bad about the dead. The media doesn't give a crap about reporting ANYTHING correctly anymore, it is all about selling thier product. How many news casts do you hear that are wrong, lack incomplete information or are totally worthless because they wanted to be the first to broadcast it. Then they sensationalize it and beat it to death until everyone is so over saturated with BS. Give me good old fashion Walter Cronkite type news, just the facts that are know, no conjecture, no witty banter, etc.

Personally, I think MJ was very damaged, both physically and mentally and over time more and more will come out from the people that can't get anymore money out of his estate.

[TBLfan 25]

To be honest, I think MJ was an very distrubed individual that suffered greatly as the result of childhood abuse. I really don't know whether he molested kids, or was just a target with enough cash to make it worth while. I will say that we're almost 30 years removed from the height of his popularity and without then sensation resulting from his criminal charges the reports on his death would be no greater than that of any other 80's pop act. It wasn't that long ago that his comeback album was gathering dust on store shelves, so I'd have to say that it's a bit difficult to call him a timeless musical legend.

The Thriller album is by far the best selling album in music history. His legacy was his music, that remains popular for nearly everyone in their mid-20s to late 40s. A comeback album is hardly a measure of his legacy as a musician... and I'd hardly say it was "gathering dust" as the album sold over 5 million copies in two months and estimated 8-10 million copies to date. BUT of course that is much less than his previous four albums at 20+ million(HIStory), 32+ million(Dangerous), 30+ million(bad) and 100+ million(Thriller).

As far as the scandals. If you read up on the facts as opposed to the image we get from the media and what we remember. You will find that not only were the abuse allegations dismissed because of "lack of evidence" and even a video of the kid in question saying something along the lines of: "If I go along with this it will destroy him and I will be set for life." There was also a mental health professional that came to the conclusion: "that Jackson had become a regressed 10-year-old and did not fit the profile of a pedophile."

The surgerys started with an accident and a botched rhinoplasty after a broken nose, it apparently effected his breathing and there were multiple attempts at correcting this via more rhinoplasty surgeries. He also was diagnosed with was diagnosed with vitiligo and lupus. Vitiligo can severely lighten the skin, unevenly, which explains the mass amount of makeup to cover it up.

This is a guy that was mentally and physically abused as a child. He later went on to be active in 30+ charities/foundations including a fundraiser after September 11th.

There are two sides to the story but the media often only tells the "juicy" part or twists it to make it more appealing. I remember a publicity photo for a scifi film... the media reported that he slept in an oxygen chamber to slow aging.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

The surgerys started with an accident and a botched rhinoplasty after a broken nose, it apparently effected his breathing and there were multiple attempts at correcting this via more rhinoplasty surgeries. He also was diagnosed with was diagnosed with vitiligo and lupus. Vitiligo can severely lighten the skin, unevenly, which explains the mass amount of makeup to cover it up.

That's where the glove came in - it was used to cover up the blotches.

There is an entertainment reporter in Detroit who was diagnosed with vitiligo - and when done up with makeup you couldn't tell at all. He decided to write a book about it and no longer uses makeup.

[TBLfan 25]

When I worked in sales I had a few customers with vitiligo, it can be rather dramatic. I heard a few kids "Mommy, what's wrong with that lady's skin?" or the like... I even heard a teenager ask, rather loudly; "Eww, does that guy have leprosy?"

I couldn't imagine having to deal with that.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

http://www.turningwhite.com/

[Fletch 219]

My step-grandmother has that disorder.....she's hispanic and her skin is normally fairly dark, but she has white splotches all over her face and her arms are totally losing all of their color and are now pale white.

[eric42434224 1]

The physical issues with MJ are all speculation. We dont know if he did indeed have the diseases or conditions, or if it was an self induced attempt to change his appearance. We dont know how many surgeries he had or why. Nor do we know what type of drug use or abuse were in play either. We may now find out, now that he has died.

We also do not know for sure if he committed any crimes, nor if any were committed against him. Some info may come out in time...who knows for sure.

What may forever be a mystery is his state of mind, and how events, and perhpas mental illness or conditions, played a part in his bizarre lifestyle and demeanor. He may have taken that to his grave.

My point is that all of this is speculation, at least for the time being, and is purely fodder for the media and gossip hounds.

The only thing not in dispute was the huge impact he had on the music industry and pop culture.

I personally feel, regardless of what comes to light as explanations of his life and actions, that this is a very tragic story.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

The Thriller album is by far the best selling album in music history. His legacy was his music, that remains popular for nearly everyone in their mid-20s to late 40s. A comeback album is hardly a measure of his legacy as a musician... and I'd hardly say it was "gathering dust" as the album sold over 5 million copies in two months and estimated 8-10 million copies to date. BUT of course that is much less than his previous four albums at 20+ million(HIStory), 32+ million(Dangerous), 30+ million(bad) and 100+ million(Thriller).

End of the day you're still talking about a guy that was a mega act in the early 80's and then fell off the radar, if not for his legal problems. Musically, that's just sort of how the 80's were. It's not really surprising, 80's pop is not a timeless form of music. People loved the shit out of hair metal then to, Posion isn't selling out stadium's anymore.

As far as the scandals. If you read up on the facts as opposed to the image we get from the media and what we remember. You will find that not only were the abuse allegations dismissed because of "lack of evidence" and even a video of the kid in question saying something along the lines of: "If I go along with this it will destroy him and I will be set for life." There was also a mental health professional that came to the conclusion: "that Jackson had become a regressed 10-year-old and did not fit the profile of a pedophile."

A lack of evidence is not proof of anything. That there wasn't enough evidence to legally sustain the charges doesn't make him innocent or guilty. He obviously didn't feel he'd fair well in civil court and thus the 20 million dollar settlement. That could well have been because his lawyers thought he wouldn't have gotten a fair shake. Of course, it could well have been because the standards of evidence and proceedurs are very different in civil courts.

The surgerys started with an accident and a botched rhinoplasty after a broken nose, it apparently effected his breathing and there were multiple attempts at correcting this via more rhinoplasty surgeries. He also was diagnosed with was diagnosed with vitiligo and lupus. Vitiligo can severely lighten the skin, unevenly, which explains the mass amount of makeup to cover it up.

If you want to turn yourself into a freak and can afford it, that's your right. If it really was accidental, that's too bad and MJ should have sued the ever loving shit out of the doctor. I'm not inclined to care one way or the other.

This is a guy that was mentally and physically abused as a child. He later went on to be active in 30+ charities/foundations including a fundraiser after September 11th.

I'm more impressed by the people who do their volunteer work without a media core to let everyone know what nice people they are. So forgive me, but celebrity charity work tends look more like PR than any actual desire to do good.

There are two sides to the story but the media often only tells the "juicy" part or twists it to make it more appealing. I remember a publicity photo for a scifi film... the media reported that he slept in an oxygen chamber to slow aging.

The flip side to that is if Jacko didn't go out of his way to be bizarre it would have been a much harder sale.

[TBLfan 25]

End of the day you're still talking about a guy that was a mega act in the early 80's and then fell off the radar, if not for his legal problems. Musically, that's just sort of how the 80's were. It's not really surprising, 80's pop is not a timeless form of music. People loved the shit out of hair metal then to, Posion isn't selling out stadium's anymore.

5 million copies of the album isn't exactly off the radar. 1 million albums sold in a year is the milestone that artists have been going after for decades.

A lack of evidence is not proof of anything. That there wasn't enough evidence to legally sustain the charges doesn't make him innocent or guilty. He obviously didn't feel he'd fair well in civil court and thus the 20 million dollar settlement. That could well have been because his lawyers thought he wouldn't have gotten a fair shake. Of course, it could well have been because the standards of evidence and proceedurs are very different in civil courts.

He was in poor health for much of this time. He has the money, why go through a long, drawn out trial and press exposure if he can avoid it? A settlement is not an admission of guilt, it's a payment to leave him alone... You think that if my kid was molested I'd forget about it for cash? I'm not saying that he's innocent(because I certainly can't be sure of that) but it sounds like people trying to take advantage of a situation to me. What parent would let their child sleep over after allegations of being a child molester?

If you want to turn yourself into a freak and can afford it, that's your right. If it really was accidental, that's too bad and MJ should have sued the ever loving shit out of the doctor. I'm not inclined to care one way or the other.

He broke his nose during a dance routine, he also had the burn incident from the Pepsi commercial. It's been reported that after a few times under the knife trying to fix his breathing issue, he became self-conscience of his appearance. With vitiligo and a botched rhinoplasty, I think most people would be self-conscience. We've seen plenty worse from other celebrities or botox injecting youth-seekers. Also consider that plastic surgery has come a long way since then.

I'm more impressed by the people who do their volunteer work without a media core to let everyone know what nice people they are. So forgive me, but celebrity charity work tends look more like PR than any actual desire to do good.

So he shouldn't do charity work and donate his time and money on multiple causes because he's famous? He couldn't go anywhere without press, he couldn't go to the hospital to die without reporters being there... you think he had the option to help these foundations without people knowing. AND even then, why not take advantage of his fame to help raise MORE money for the charity. 1-2 charities with big shows and tons of press, sure it's a PR stunt, it's for a tax break but with nearly 40 foundations and charities, I see that as trying to help others. You can't write off his considerable charity work because he was famous.

[lee92 2]

Does it really matter if someone is volunteering to help or volunteering for personal gain? In the end, the charity is still benefiting, regardless of the person's motives.

[Hidious 0]

I felt like the medias drove him crazy, then used the fact that he was mentally sick to create all kind of scandals, driving him even more crazy and when all this finally brought him to his grave, they act like nice guys having so much respect for the guy all of a sudden.

The fact that celebrity indirectly caused his death is debatable but i believe he'd still be alive had he lived a "normal" life.

Same kind of thing happened with Britney Spears who became a celebrity at a rather young age but it seems like she managed to get her life back in order before it was too late.

Being a celebrity in the US may look like a dream but i believe it's closer to a nightmare.

[chippa13 1844]

Wait, the media turned two media whores crazy?

[LkptTiger 1]

I don't care if the guy has a point or not...I've got no problem with vulgarity (Hell, I'm a fan) - but using that much of that kind of language just for the sake of using that much of that kind of language is just obnoxious.

[Krev 86]

This is the only MJ thread right now, and I really don't wanna risk opening up another one.

Rehearsal footage of Jackson two days before he died. Buddy of mine sent it to me over facebook, thought I'd share it here for those who haven't seen it yet. He looks fine to me, haha.

http://www.ryanseacrest.com/blog/whats-hap...death-released/

[RecLeagueHero 0]

Does it really matter if someone is volunteering to help or volunteering for personal gain? In the end, the charity is still benefiting, regardless of the person's motives.

I do think it makes a big difference. If celebrities really wanted to make a difference in the world than instead of pouring through millions of dollars on extreme excess they could actually use the money to help other people. I'm not in any way saying they should have to do anything for anyone, and I fully support their right to use the money they earn any way that pleases them. However, if they were really interested in helping others out they could live in luxury on a fraction of what they bring in and donate millions upon millions to actually helping people out. But they don't do that. They show up, get the PR pictures, and get out. It's not charity, it's advertising.

[eric42434224 1]

Does it really matter if someone is volunteering to help or volunteering for personal gain? In the end, the charity is still benefiting, regardless of the person's motives.

It's not charity, it's advertising.

The two are not mutually exclusive. It can be both. It may be PR, advertising, a tax write-off, etc...but it is still charity.

Charity is generosity or helpfulness, usually in the form of acts or gifts, given to those in need. Motives or anonymity really arent factors.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

5 million copies of the album isn't exactly off the radar. 1 million albums sold in a year is the milestone that artists have been going after for decades.

What part of that sales figure is from Europe and Asia? I'm not saying he didn't have fans, anyone that big is bound to have fans only 10 years after the height of his popularity. However, he's not an artist that has the ability to bridge generations or anything. When you go from selling 10+ million albums to selling 5, that's a big decline. Look at a band like Metallica, who also started in the early 1980's. They've never had an album sale 30 million copies, but they have had a successful list of albums (usually buliding in sales) over the past 28 years. Unlike Jacko, none of them are broke with creditors lined up six in a row. Realistically, if Jacko hadn't bought the Beatles' rights he'd have been broke long ago. So again, just no traction or staying power.

He was in poor health for much of this time. He has the money, why go through a long, drawn out trial and press exposure if he can avoid it? A settlement is not an admission of guilt, it's a payment to leave him alone... You think that if my kid was molested I'd forget about it for cash? I'm not saying that he's innocent(because I certainly can't be sure of that) but it sounds like people trying to take advantage of a situation to me. What parent would let their child sleep over after allegations of being a child molester?

While a settlement is not a legal admission of guilt, it looks that way to the public eye and when your bread and butter is being a celebrity it matters a lot. So yeah, I think I'd go though a lot to avoid being labeled a child molestor. In some parts of the world people sale their kids into slavery for less than 100 bucks, so yeah, I think there are more than a few people that'd let it go for 20 million.

So he shouldn't do charity work and donate his time and money on multiple causes because he's famous? He couldn't go anywhere without press, he couldn't go to the hospital to die without reporters being there... you think he had the option to help these foundations without people knowing. AND even then, why not take advantage of his fame to help raise MORE money for the charity. 1-2 charities with big shows and tons of press, sure it's a PR stunt, it's for a tax break but with nearly 40 foundations and charities, I see that as trying to help others. You can't write off his considerable charity work because he was famous.

Several issues at once:

Benefit gigs almost always benefit the preformer more than the charity as the preformers keep their merchendise takes, where the real money is in concerts. After booking a venue and paying all the expenses concerts don't tend to make a lot of money. In fact, some of those enviromental gigs they did lost money. As concerts will sometimes tend to do, which is why tours are more about album promotion than they are about profits in and of themselves.

Yes, if one wanted to donate money without it being made public that's not a difficult thing to accomplish. I'm not writing off his charity work, simply not impressed by it. He also went knocking on doors like he was supposed to as a JW for quite some time.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

Charity is generosity or helpfulness, usually in the form of acts or gifts, given to those in need. Motives or anonymity really arent factors.

eg. Easton Toy Drive?

[Drewhunz 3]

OH SNAP!