Drilling Step Steel?

[rachael7 1]

I just switched to the Step steel (regular) on my G35s and I love the steel - takes a great edge. But the G35 is a damn heavy boot and with the extra metal on the Step steel, it's only gotten worse. I've got a machine shop at my disposal and I've seen other steel (E-Pro and whatnot) with notches/holes, so I got to wondering. Anyone ever considered drilling lightening holes or otherwise machining away some of the steel up near the holder? Any Cobra holders ever come with steel like that which could be used as an example? Obviously one would want to deburr very carefully and choose hole sizes/locations to avoid stress concentration and premature broken steel... but beyond that, anyone have any thoughts? Anyone ever done it?

[Chadd 916]

[JR Boucicaut 3789]

There was a set of Cobra steel that was perforated (it had "fangs") but it didn't stay on the scene long.

As long as you are taking off of the top like CCM does, it is better than taking it from the middle like Bauer did.

[Chadd 916]

You'll get more benefit from spending the same amount of time in a gym as the time it will take to remove a few grams of steel.

[rachael7 1]

There was a set of Cobra steel that was perforated (it had "fangs") but it didn't stay on the scene long.

As long as you are taking off of the top like CCM does, it is better than taking it from the middle like Bauer did.

That's pretty much what I was thinking... a set of carefully drilled and deburred holes near the top edge. There would still be enough meat between the holes so the tri-lie holder would grab normally for sharpening. Some perforation up near the holder should have almost no impact on strength as long as nicks and other stress concentrations are avoided. And I usually replace steel before it gets down close to the holder anyway, so it seems like a win/win if done right. Worse case, I ruin a set of steel, but that's not too big a deal anyway. Maybe one of these summer days when I'm not on the ice and I get bored...

You'll get more benefit from spending the same amount of time in a gym as the time it will take to remove a few grams of steel.

Fair point and no argument. But there's only so much time I can spend in the gym (which I do a LOT), before I have to let my muscles recover some. Got to have something to fill the rest of the time, right? Not like half the Graf owners aren't putting different holders on and whatnot anyway... doesn't seem that crazy to try some of the ideas in use on other brands of skates... not to me, anyway. I'd hardly be the first to suggest that the Cobra holder/steel are the worst things about Graf's skates.

[Chadd 916]

doesn't seem that crazy to try some of the ideas in use on other brands of skates... not to me, anyway. I'd hardly be the first to suggest that the Cobra holder/steel are the worst things about Graf's skates.

But you are talking about drilling step steel, not the stock Graf steel. What you're proposing also doesn't resolve any of the issues associated with the Cobra holder and stock Graf steel. You're doing it just to make it lighter because, as you said;

skate manufacturers seem to spend an awful lot of engineering time, money, and advertising on the subject of skate weight. And serious people I play with have expressed wonder about the immediate improvement in their skating after going to a light skate like the One95.

Do whatever you want, they're your skates. Either way, drilling holes in the steel aren't going to turn Grafs into One95s.

[fastbrother7 0]

You'll get more benefit from spending the same amount of time in a gym as the time it will take to remove a few grams of steel.

True story.

[shotty 7]

True story.

upon reaching your conditioning goals, there's nothing wrong with looking elsewhere for added efficiency.

not saying that drilling holes in one's steel is going to a noticeable benefit, but you have to know that any well conditioned athlete will always look for a competitive advantage with their equipment once they've sustained a certain level of fitness.

[Chadd 916]

upon reaching your conditioning goals, there's nothing wrong with looking elsewhere for added efficiency.

not saying that drilling holes in one's steel is going to a noticeable benefit, but you have to know that any well conditioned athlete will always look for a competitive advantage with their equipment once they've sustained a certain level of fitness.

I haven't seen so many people preoccupied with chasing grams since I left my old band. If you think perf steel or drilling holes in your steel is going to make you better, you need to get out more. It's amazing how NHL players manage to get by despite the fact that most equipment managers swap out the stuff with holes in it.

[jimmy 194]

I love to illustrate the typical Army soldier. He carries a 60 lb backpack, 20 lb rifle, 10 lb helmet, 15 lb boots, 20lb flak vest and more, trugs all this thru sand, dirt, fields and mountains for a 16hr or longer day (in 90 degree heat), and then there's the hockey player who can't handle 40 more grams on their stick or skates while they are out there for a 1 minute shift. Sad, so sad. The marketing has really got people thinking they have to have the lightest everything. Umm, a few more push ups and leg lifts will pay off way more than some marketing gimmick.

[shotty 7]

oh i agree chadd, i'm just touching on the fact that once someone reaches a certain level of fitness, they look elsewhere for minor mechanical/technical advantages. again, not to say that this WOULD give an advantage, but hitting the gym isn't the end all and be all. her blue line to blue line split time isnt going to improve with one extra gym session.

kind of like shooting the puck. once you become an expert at form and function, you look to improve the technical aspect of your stick, be it by weight, kickpoint, etc.

[Chadd 916]

oh i agree chadd, i'm just touching on the fact that once someone reaches a certain level of fitness, they look elsewhere for minor mechanical/technical advantages. again, not to say that this WOULD give an advantage, but hitting the gym isn't the end all and be all. her blue line to blue line split time isnt going to improve with one extra gym session.

kind of like shooting the puck. once you become an expert at form and function, you look to improve the technical aspect of your stick, be it by weight, kickpoint, etc.

The vast majority of the time, people are just looking for a shortcut.

[zebra_steve 11]

Anyone have the Rockwell C rating for step steel? In a previous career i worked for 2 years in the R&D metallurgy lab of a steel company... I don't think this is something you will accomplish with hand tools and not ruin something and cost more than it's worth. You will trash expensive drill bits, and probably the steel too. Maybe a Wire EDM process could do it. All them fancy holes you see in the factory steel was put there before an heat treat and polish was done....

Anyone have the Rockwell C rating for step steel? In a previous career i worked for 2 years in the R&R metallurgy lab of a steel company... I don't think this is something you will accomplish with hand tools and not ruin something and cost more than it's worth. You will trash expensive drill bits, and probably the steel too. Maybe a Wire EDM process could do it. All them fancy holes you see in the factory steel was put there before any heat treat and polishing process was done. to them...

[dabeechman 0]

It is just stainless isn't it? It can't be that hard.

[epstud74 24]

No amount of perforated steel will make you a faster skater. It is all about form, talent, athleticism, strength and skill.

[rachael7 1]

Anyone have the Rockwell C rating for step steel? In a previous career i worked for 2 years in the R&D metallurgy lab of a steel company... I don't think this is something you will accomplish with hand tools and not ruin something and cost more than it's worth. You will trash expensive drill bits, and probably the steel too. Maybe a Wire EDM process could do it. All them fancy holes you see in the factory steel was put there before an heat treat and polish was done....

This is exactly the kind of consideration I was wondering about. Yeah, of course being a better skater is more important than chasing grams - duh. And I work out and drill religiously because I know that is where all my major gains will be made (and are made, all the time). But seriously, we have 26 pages of discussion about TotalOne skates, with every gearhead on this board sure they're the new favorite skate without even seeing them. We can make it through that thread without resorting to calling people out about their conditioning, so this thread does not seem to be such an unreasonable discussion to me. This is an equipment forum for crying out loud. We've got glove whores, stick whores, skate whores... people are all atwitter about their 'custom' skates, with a different tongue or something... I think it is at least fair to ask this question without being accused of being lazy. I may not be that great, but I take my training pretty seriously.

As to the matter of Rockwell rating, that is one of the major things I was wondering about. I don't know the alloy, only that it is stainless. It acts reasonably hard when I sharpen it, but that's hardly a real analysis. I'm a mechanical engineer, but I worked more with power generation and now optics, so I'm not real up on my metallurgy. As best I recall though, stainless doesn't really harden that far, does it? Certainly not like tool steel or anything. Definitely would be nice to know if I'm going to need just TiN coated tool steel bits or if I'll be wanting solid carbide.

I also agree that this is definitely not a job for hand tools - even if you completed it without destroying the bit or steel, the rough edges would leave stress concentrations that would surely crack the steel right on the first impact. Definitely not a 'black it out with a sharpie' level project. I planned to either use TiN bits on a big drill press and finish the holes with a sanding wheel on a Dremel, or else I was going to mill the slots with solid carbide bits on my CNC mill and again smooth them after with a sanding process. It does sound like a pain in the ass, but if I decide to go to the trouble, I'll post back with how it worked out.

[dabeechman 0]

If you have a mill, why would you use a press? And more so, why would you sand the edges when you could just use a counter bore to take the edge off of it.

Take a knife and see if you can scratch the metal a few thou deep, if so you'll be fine.

Trick with stainless is that it is work hardened. Meaning you need to drill it as quickly as possible otherwise the heat will make it tough. A 1/4" hole should have a spindle speed of about 500rpm and a LOT of pressure down on it. You want to go through it quick. Use a cobalt bit. If you want to wait a day I will be at the heat treaters tomorrow picking up some parts and I'll ask him for you.

[rachael7 1]

If you have a mill, why would you use a press? And more so, why would you sand the edges when you could just use a counter bore to take the edge off of it.

Rectangular holes at the edge, like other slotted runners I've seen, would certainly require the mill. But if I went with round holes only, there'd be a lot less setup time with the press. Deburring with a countersink is a given, but smoothing the inside of the hole itself with a sanding operation would eliminate any chance of a nick in there becoming a stress concentration point. May be overkill though.

Take a knife and see if you can scratch the metal a few thou deep, if so you'll be fine.

Not a bad idea. I'll give it a try. Certainly if your average knife can scratch it, it would be machinable easily enough.

Trick with stainless is that it is work hardened. Meaning you need to drill it as quickly as possible otherwise the heat will make it tough.

Had that experience before, sounds not unlike tool steel in that regard.

If you want to wait a day I will be at the heat treaters tomorrow picking up some parts and I'll ask him for you.

I'm in no hurry, just mulling over the idea at this point. So if you happen upon any useful info, I'd love to hear it. Thanks!

[dw91 0]

Lost in all of this is the fact that someone is giving JR a run for his shank-making title. Step Steel could give the O.P. an advantage

[Vathsdrop 0]

Losing some weight and try to get a dry muscular mass is good as well

Keep in mind that if you drink a glass of water before going on the ice, your weight increases by 200gr (same as if you eat some chocolat bar, but it's a bit better actually you need that glucose that passes fast in your blood) so probably more than what you are gonna save by drilling your steel.

You can go a bit for a light jog before practice the water you'll lose by perspiration will reduce again your weight. Fighters do that B)

[rachael7 1]

So should you shave your head instead of buying a new S19 helmet?

[Too Old 1]

I think I need to have the orthopedic surgeon remove the plate and 4 screws in my leg now... I'm just sayin'.

If you're serious about tweaking the steel then why not find a local laser-cutting shop. We have one right near us and they can do some very intricate work. But for the small amount of weight to be lost vs. the cost (both monetary and possible physical should a stress riser and eventual crack occur...) my personal opinion is to not waste the time. But if you choose to be gram-conscious... then you may as well hunt down titanium nuts for blade retention to the holders. Just remember to use anti-seize so they won't corrode. But not too much anti-seize as it will add weight...

[Neal 41]

So should you shave your head instead of buying a new S19 helmet?

Totally. I'd recommend a full body depilatory and exfoliation treatment instead of moving from a CCM HT2 to an S19 and from a set of Micron Megas to TotalOnes. That is far more reasonable than trying to save some grams with tools you have access to and a process that is going to cost you nothing more than your own time and that you'll probably get a kick out of doing.

[rachael7 1]

I'll admit, saving a couple ounces off each skate may or may not be of any real benefit. I honestly don't know. But I do know that my skates sometimes feel more like work boots than athletic shoes and I don't care for that feeling much. And I also know that people always go gaga over the latest and lightest skates.... "weight at the extremity is the toughest to move" and all that jazz. Plus, the Step steel is what, 10% taller than stock? And therefore 10% heavier, right? I love the fit of my boots and the power transfer is good, and I try to work on my foot speed every time I drill. But I still can't help but wonder if lighter skates would help me get past that foot-in-the-mud feeling I sometimes get. On my road bike, I could care less - I laugh at the gram-fags on their composite bikes as I pass them on my old school aluminum frame. On the other hand, when I drove SCCA GT3 race cars, reducing unsprung weight (wheels/tires/brakes) had a HUGE impact on performance. Skates being more analogous to car wheels than bike frames, I do wonder if there isn't a real performance benefit to lighting up the skate. What do you guys think? Kind of tangential to the original topic, but are lighter skates a benefit or not? Obviously not as a substitute for training or a short cut for a lazy skater... but do they improve someone of a given level measurably or not? Clearly skate manufacturers have a bias to want us to believe it matters... but does it?

[Drewhunz 3]

I love to illustrate the typical Army soldier. He carries a 60 lb backpack, 20 lb rifle, 10 lb helmet, 15 lb boots, 20lb flak vest and more, trugs all this thru sand, dirt, fields and mountains for a 16hr or longer day (in 90 degree heat), and then there's the hockey player who can't handle 40 more grams on their stick or skates while they are out there for a 1 minute shift. Sad, so sad. The marketing has really got people thinking they have to have the lightest everything. Umm, a few more push ups and leg lifts will pay off way more than some marketing gimmick.

Anytime you reduce weight at the bottom of the skate (weight furthest away from the body is harder to move) that is a good thing. If the Fusion is like the Rockets, it will be a welcome addition. Hotblades were the first, awesome blades 33-40% lighter. The Rocket was even better because of the higher grade steel.

Um.... at least you're consistent with your train of thought.