Throwing a Game

[Joshison 1]

Did they end up winning the tourney?

[NuggyBuggy 0]

For the participant winning the tournament, or league championship, is the primary objective. Organizers need to set up a system that reinforces a set of sportsmanship principals if that's what they are after.

Thank you. What is the purpose of playing in a state-level tournament, if not to win it ?

And as for scouts - most of those kids probably aren't going any further with hockey anyways, but most of them would probably be better off with a State championship on their resume/college application. And I doubt that many teams would want a player who would lead his team into revolt whatever the reason.

[Bravada 442 0]

This is an interesting situation. I think you need to do whatever you can ethically to make sure your team wins. "Throwing" the game isn't really the way to go in my opinion, but I wouldn't have been against the coach playing the backup goalie and giving the 3rd and 4th lines the top line minutes.

[chippa13 1844]

Where did I say it was too old? I said it's no longer the point. At high school age, especially midgets, it becomes very competitive. The goal is winning and trying to make a career. If you aren't working on our own skills and figuring your career out at that point it won't happen and there's no sense in spending the money to play midgets. You can just go play house league if life lessons and fair play and everybody gets a turn is what you're interested in. I learned the hard way during high school soccer what makes a good coach and what makes someone an asshole who plays favorites with his son and his sons friends. I'm not saying its necessarily the best way to learn, but I learned from the experience. Not too mention you completely disregarded the fact that I said lessons can be learned from every experience as long as you look for them. It's up to the individual to decide what they want to do with it. I had ecellent hocke coaches in midgets and they certainly weren't concerned with teaching us life lessons, they were teaching us how to play the game and to improve for the next level. That's their job. I'm not saying he did it the right way, but winning championships is what gets teams, and the players on those teams, noticed by the next level.

If you listen to every NHL great talk about their most influential coach coming up, every single one will include "character" as one of the attributes that that coach instilled in them.

[frankie56 0]

Did they end up winning the tourney?

This team won the crossover game as did their rival. Both teams Advance to the final 4. karma would hope that the team that won by roll over gets a chance to eliminate this team from the tournament.

Yes, the coach was within the written rules, but....You can be within the rules but still be unethical and/or disrespectful. It seems to me the coach made a show of it. There were many things he could have done to tilt the ice without causing such a stir. To take the baseball example, what it the coach orders his pitcher to go two feet inside with every pitch rather than the usual intentional walk. Its just wrong.

[fsuhockeystar97 0]

If you listen to every NHL great talk about their most influential coach coming up, every single one will include "character" as one of the attributes that that coach instilled in them.

That's the answer they're supposed to give. When you become a public figure there are certain things you have to say. That's just how it is. Everyone will always include "character" even if they didn't actually even teach them about character.

[iceNsteel 0]

This team won the crossover game as did their rival. Both teams Advance to the final 4. karma would hope that the team that won by roll over gets a chance to eliminate this team from the tournament.

Yes, the coach was within the written rules, but....You can be within the rules but still be unethical and/or disrespectful. It seems to me the coach made a show of it. There were many things he could have done to tilt the ice without causing such a stir. To take the baseball example, what it the coach orders his pitcher to go two feet inside with every pitch rather than the usual intentional walk. Its just wrong.

So it's not unethical to intentionally lose a game as long as you go about it in a sneaky way?

[frankie56 0]

So it's not unethical to intentionally lose a game as long as you go about it in a sneaky way?

Didnt say that and you know it. If a coach isnt interested in winning a game, and i dont know why he wouldnt want to win every game he can, he can play those players that dont get much as much of a chance. But let the players play the best they can! To instruct players to play poorly is bush league. If you cant figure that out, so sorry for you. Also, if you think you are a champion, you should want to beat the best to prove it, not hope your best competition is eliminated so you dont risk losing to them. Also bush league. Lastly, completely disrespectful to your opponent and the team that was eliminated by your actions. While they are midgets, they are still kids not pros, and deserve to play the game as it should be played.

[wrangler 157]

Didnt say that and you know it. If a coach isnt interested in winning a game, and i dont know why he wouldnt want to win every game he can, he can play those players that dont get much as much of a chance. But let the players play the best they can! To instruct players to play poorly is bush league. If you cant figure that out, so sorry for you. Also, if you think you are a champion, you should want to beat the best to prove it, not hope your best competition is eliminated so you dont risk losing to them. Also bush league. Lastly, completely disrespectful to your opponent and the team that was eliminated by your actions. While they are midgets, they are still kids not pros, and deserve to play the game as it should be played.

I don't think you were accused of saying that, that's why the question was asked. But you were heading that direction, and I think he wondered how far down that path you'd want to go.

I agree with your attitude about beating the best, and have seen that expressed by pro players in various sports, talking about playoff opponents. I've also seen it expressed that they hope the opponents are over their injuries before a game or series, due to the same attitude.

[chippa13 1844]

Nobody wants to have to answer the questions after they win if their opponent is missing key players or if the best possible opponent didn't make the finals due to some fluke. That is what made the Red Sox win in 2004 so special. Not only did they win for the first time in forever but they beat the Yankees to get there.

[dsjunior1388 81]

Nobody wants to have to answer the questions after they win if their opponent is missing key players or if the best possible opponent didn't make the finals due to some fluke. That is what made the Red Sox win in 2004 so special. Not only did they win for the first time in forever but they beat the Yankees to get there.

I don't think the fact that the Sox played the Angels and Indians took any shine off the Championship in 2007. Like I said, the championship is the ultimate goal.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

That is what made the Red Sox win in 2004 so special. Not only did they win for the first time in forever but they beat the Yankees to get there.

But I bet you that most Red Sox fans with eyes on a championship were hoping for a matchup against anybody but the Yankees.

After the championship is in hand, of course anybody would be happier to have already beaten the best. But beforehand, teams will hope for the easiest possible route to the championship. Winning the championship is the larger game.

[Tailboard Jockey 25]

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/Youth_Hockey_Controversy_Los_Angeles-117388693.html

This just happened last weekend. The head coach of the offending team is Jamie Baker, former center for the San Jose Sharks, and currently their radio color analyst.

[wrangler 157]

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/Youth_Hockey_Controversy_Los_Angeles-117388693.html

This just happened last weekend. The head coach of the offending team is Jamie Baker, former center for the San Jose Sharks, and currently their radio color analyst.

Interesting, but he didn't say if any action was taken against the team, regarding the tournament.

[coldshoulder 0]

Interesting, but he didn't say if any action was taken against the team, regarding the tournament.

The coaches from the team have been suspended pending a disciplinary hearing.

The team is advancing to State Tourney.

http://caha.com/

[zebra_steve 11]

This one (Click link) is in Winnipeg... What's wrong with these people?

[wrangler 157]

The coaches from the team have been suspended pending a disciplinary hearing.

The team is advancing to State Tourney.

http://caha.com/

Thanks.

This one (Click link) is in Winnipeg... What's wrong with these people?

I'm wondering how they thought it was OK, and how they thought they'd get away with it. Maybe they've done it, or seen it done before?

I'm glad they adjusted the tournament to eliminate the benefit of the bogosity.

[tareatingrat 4]

This one (Click link) is in Winnipeg... What's wrong with these people?

I coach in the same league, and this was pretty big news.

Nobody in the league was happy with what the team did. I can't wait until our AGM.

I wasn't at the game, but our team manager was and said the building was absolute chaos when they pulled that stunt.

[WSjo22 1]

Kinda disappointing an actual former nhler pulled one of these stunts. One of the things that attracted me to the game at a young age was the honor players played with and the way they respected the game. It's one thing to see a crazed hockey dad coaching his son to be the next Gretzky to pull a stunt like that.....

[Larry54 243]

I sort of chuckle when I read about how unethical it is to throw a game to gain an advantage, and how it's a wrong message to send to our youth. As much as we hate it, and as cynical as it sounds, aren't we actually properly preparing them for the crappy dog-eat-dog reality that they will have to face in their adulthood?

And as far as playing your 3rd and 4th lines instead of throwing the game, maybe the latter exposes the flaw in the tournament formula more blatantly, forcing organizers to improve the rules to avoid future dilemmas.

I'm just playing devil's advocate but it's food for thought.

[wrangler 157]

I sort of chuckle when I read about how unethical it is to throw a game to gain an advantage, and how it's a wrong message to send to our youth. As much as we hate it, and as cynical as it sounds, aren't we actually properly preparing them for the crappy dog-eat-dog reality that they will have to face in their adulthood?

And as far as playing your 3rd and 4th lines instead of throwing the game, maybe the latter exposes the flaw in the tournament formula more blatantly, forcing organizers to improve the rules to avoid future dilemmas.

I'm just playing devil's advocate but it's food for thought.

No. We'd be teaching them to be bad, because some other people are bad.

I'm glad to see some folks bring up the very old-school concepts of respect for, and love of, the game. The attitude used to be that it was just wrong to do anything to make the game (pick your sport) look bad.

[tareatingrat 4]

I sort of chuckle when I read about how unethical it is to throw a game to gain an advantage, and how it's a wrong message to send to our youth. As much as we hate it, and as cynical as it sounds, aren't we actually properly preparing them for the crappy dog-eat-dog reality that they will have to face in their adulthood?

I guess for the amount of comments like this, I shouldn't be surprised these things happen. Not you, specifically, but there are a lot of people who don't think there's anything wrong with trowing a game to get an advantage, or, just to screw somebody else over.

It's not even something you can really explain. Either you get it and you've got some integrity, or you don't, and you're a douchebag.

[innotastic 12]

I sort of chuckle when I read about how unethical it is to throw a game to gain an advantage, and how it's a wrong message to send to our youth. As much as we hate it, and as cynical as it sounds, aren't we actually properly preparing them for the crappy dog-eat-dog reality that they will have to face in their adulthood?

And as far as playing your 3rd and 4th lines instead of throwing the game, maybe the latter exposes the flaw in the tournament formula more blatantly, forcing organizers to improve the rules to avoid future dilemmas.

I'm just playing devil's advocate but it's food for thought.

this argument comes up a lot.

you have to look at the purpose of sport and competition, and how winning plays in it. winning is ideally the tangible measure of which of two entities are better at the sport. The issue is when winning becomes the single purpose, and not to determine which, in this case, team is better. A team can be better, and not necessarily win the game, or in this case, tournament.

So then issues of rules affect determining who is "better". the coach used a tactic within the rules of the tournament in order to win. is his team actually the best, or even better?

to tie that back to what you are saying, even though you "win", you may not be better. and in our "dog-eat-dog" world, if you say for example, were selected for a job over other more qualified candidates because you "won" the interview process, you are setting yourself up for a train wreck when you realize that you are under qualified for the job.

We shouldn't be setting up our kids with a competitive, win-at-all cost attitude, we should be preparing them with the skills they need.

[chippa13 1844]

I sort of chuckle when I read about how unethical it is to throw a game to gain an advantage, and how it's a wrong message to send to our youth. As much as we hate it, and as cynical as it sounds, aren't we actually properly preparing them for the crappy dog-eat-dog reality that they will have to face in their adulthood?

And as far as playing your 3rd and 4th lines instead of throwing the game, maybe the latter exposes the flaw in the tournament formula more blatantly, forcing organizers to improve the rules to avoid future dilemmas.

I'm just playing devil's advocate but it's food for thought.

Maybe kids wouldn't have to prepare for the "crappy dog-eat-dog reality" if adults instilled traits of integrity, honesty, and accountability instead of a win at all costs mentality into today's youth.

[Chadd 916]

Maybe kids wouldn't have to prepare for the "crappy dog-eat-dog reality" if adults instilled traits of integrity, honesty, and accountability instead of a win at all costs mentality into today's youth.

Or if the adults themselves had integrity, honesty and accountability.