Throwing a Game

[DolomaticDangles 13]

Am I the only one who would flat out refuse to dress if a coach told me to purposely throw the game like that?

No. I would lose all respect for that coach. I don't know how you could ever take your coach seriously again after something like that. Have some respect for the game

[iceNsteel 0]

Obviously this sort of thing isn't in accord with the higher principals of sportsmanship. But if a flaw in the tourny structure puts teams in a position where a loss can be of benefit you are going to have coaches make these decisions. When I was playing bantams we were at a tournament and a loss of ours created a match up between a team we had struggled against during the season with a team they had struggled against. Our coaches never directly told us to throw the game, but 3rd and 4th line players saw a lot more ice time than was usual and the 1st and 2nd lines were changed up only for that game. We ended up loosing the game and winning the tournament, which was I think due in part to the team we had struggled with being eliminated. Is intentionally loosing a dick move? It probably is, but some dick moves just seem to be pretty common in youth sports. Intentionally walking a kid you don't want to pitch to happens, or a football creating an entire game plan to avoid the opposition's star player. That is a bit different that throwing a game, but I suppose it all introduces youth players to the concept of strategic thinking in sports.

[chippa13 1844]

Not strategic thinking, cowardly thinking.

[wrangler 157]

Obviously this sort of thing isn't in accord with the higher principals of sportsmanship. But if a flaw in the tourny structure puts teams in a position where a loss can be of benefit you are going to have coaches make these decisions. When I was playing bantams we were at a tournament and a loss of ours created a match up between a team we had struggled against during the season with a team they had struggled against. Our coaches never directly told us to throw the game, but 3rd and 4th line players saw a lot more ice time than was usual and the 1st and 2nd lines were changed up only for that game. We ended up loosing the game and winning the tournament, which was I think due in part to the team we had struggled with being eliminated. Is intentionally loosing a dick move? It probably is, but some dick moves just seem to be pretty common in youth sports. Intentionally walking a kid you don't want to pitch to happens, or a football creating an entire game plan to avoid the opposition's star player. That is a bit different that throwing a game, but I suppose it all introduces youth players to the concept of strategic thinking in sports.

Strategic thinking and sportsmanship can co-exist happily.

I agree that tournament planning should not provide this sort of opportunity.

[silver571 2]

As a coach, I'd never tell my guys to throw a game. We train and practice all year long to be successful and take on any opponent within our league/tournament. Without getting into ethics, I say that is a poor choice on that coach's part.

[WSjo22 1]

I'd rather lose with honor than win like a coward....

[Axxion89 32]

Only way I would even consider this is if the rivalry was at an intensity so high that it literally would have been more satisfying to watch them lose than my team win. Yet, since I have never had such a rivalry, I would have told my coach to go change out of his skirt and be a man.

Also, I do agree that the tournament structure should not have it so that a loss benefits any team.

[iceNsteel 0]

Strategic thinking and sportsmanship can co-exist happily.

I agree that tournament planning should not provide this sort of opportunity.

I do agree that sportsmanship and strategy can co-exist. But people are going to differ on when strategy crosses into the realm of unsportsman like conduct. Which is why I think the fault here lies in good part with the tournament organizers for creating a situation where loosing benefited a team. The other thing that comes to mind here is the subject of intentional walks in youth baseball. Is it fair to a hitter that he/she isn't going to get a chance to hit? Probably not, but intentional walks are part of the strategy of baseball. This is why leagues can, and do, have their own rules on the subject. If the organizers continue to allow situations like the one in the OP then you really can't cry foul when coaches exploit them to enhance their competitive position.

[DarkStar50 679]

I don't think people are "crying foul to enhance his team's competitive position" as much as they are questioning the ethics of the coach. Sports teaches life lessons and this is the wrong lesson to teach. JMHO.

[All Torhs Team 0]

1) smash the opponent, showing the other teams in the tournament you are a force not to be reckoned with

tossing the game only makes the other teams pissed at you, and gives them a little extra incentive to smash you when you play. Not good

[NuggyBuggy 0]

The other thing that comes to mind here is the subject of intentional walks in youth baseball. Is it fair to a hitter that he/she isn't going to get a chance to hit? Probably not, but intentional walks are part of the strategy of baseball.

I was going to bring up the same example. Also, is it "bush" to intentionally foul a poor free-throw shooter rather than face him with the ball in his hands on the court ? Is it "bush" when a football player could score a touchdown, but intentionally downs the ball a yard short to keep the clock running ?

[PartyMcFly 0]

Also, is it "bush" to intentionally foul a poor free-throw shooter rather than face him with the ball in his hands on the court ? Is it "bush" when a football player could score a touchdown, but intentionally downs the ball a yard short to keep the clock running ?

My take: answer is yes to all. You see these kinds of b**ch moves at the pro level all the time, but it's still the kind of strategy that doesn't help the evolution of the games for future generations to enjoy.

As fans we let this kind of thing slide since stakes are very high at the pro level, but a coach pulling antics like this at an amateur level, and especially at a developmental level like midget probably has serious pecker issues.

[wrangler 157]

My take: answer is yes to all. You see these kinds of b**ch moves at the pro level all the time, but it's still the kind of strategy that doesn't help the evolution of the games for future generations to enjoy.

As fans we let this kind of thing slide since stakes are very high at the pro level, but a coach pulling antics like this at an amateur level, and especially at a developmental level like midget probably has serious pecker issues.

As fans we have no choice, at pro or any level. Placing winning above trying to compete within the rules, rather than using them, is poor sportsmanship. Folks' positions seem to run the entire spectrum of sportsmanship to "win at any cost".

[DarkStar50 679]

The difference between intentionally walking a batter and these other examples against what the coach has done, is that those are in game situation strategies. Those teams are still playing to win. The hockey coach make a decision before the game not to compete to win.

[Chadd 916]

The other thing that comes to mind here is the subject of intentional walks in youth baseball. Is it fair to a hitter that he/she isn't going to get a chance to hit? Probably not, but intentional walks are part of the strategy of baseball.

When I was a kid and played LL baseball, our coach walked one kid in the league every time he came up to bat, no matter what the score was or how many guys were on base. When a parent for the other team started yelling at him after the game he pointed out that the kid was 6-2, 200lbs and crushed the ball every time he swung the bat. He didn't want any of us getting hurt by a kid that was twice the size of a lot of us. Agree or disagree, he made the decision for the right reason.

[chippa13 1844]

That must have sucked for the kid.

[fsuhockeystar97 0]

Say what you will, but if it helps a team win I don't see fault in this. Perhaps the way he did it isn't necessarily how I would. Most likely I would have played 3rd and 4th lines more, not only is it more likely that we would lose but it also gives those kids more ice time than they're used to seeing. And let's face it, midgets is high school age, at that age level coaches are no longer involved with teaching life lessons. Winning championships is the goal. Is that wrong? Maybe, but that's how it is. The goal of every midget team out there is to win championships, no matter the cost. Even still there are life lessons to be learned from such an event. Just because everyone may only see the negative, perhaps these kids see what this is like and learn that it's not how they want to be. We don't really know what is going on in their heads. Obviously one disagreed since he tried to score. Every event is an opportunity to learn as long as you look for the lesson. I'm sure there is more that I could say to justify my position but I have other work I need to focus on right now. Just look at it this way, if the ends justify the means its hard to argue with it.

[wrangler 157]

Just look at it this way, if the ends justify the means its hard to argue with it.

That is precisely the philosophy with which some of us are disagreeing.

[chippa13 1844]

Wait, high school age is too old to be teaching life lessons? You can't be serious.

[Lee-Bro 1]

Wait, high school age is too old to be teaching life lessons? You can't be serious.

Didn't you know high schoolers know everything? Just ask 'em.

[fsuhockeystar97 0]

Wait, high school age is too old to be teaching life lessons? You can't be serious.

Where did I say it was too old? I said it's no longer the point. At high school age, especially midgets, it becomes very competitive. The goal is winning and trying to make a career. If you aren't working on our own skills and figuring your career out at that point it won't happen and there's no sense in spending the money to play midgets. You can just go play house league if life lessons and fair play and everybody gets a turn is what you're interested in. I learned the hard way during high school soccer what makes a good coach and what makes someone an asshole who plays favorites with his son and his sons friends. I'm not saying its necessarily the best way to learn, but I learned from the experience. Not too mention you completely disregarded the fact that I said lessons can be learned from every experience as long as you look for them. It's up to the individual to decide what they want to do with it. I had ecellent hocke coaches in midgets and they certainly weren't concerned with teaching us life lessons, they were teaching us how to play the game and to improve for the next level. That's their job. I'm not saying he did it the right way, but winning championships is what gets teams, and the players on those teams, noticed by the next level.

[DarkStar50 679]

The irony is that those life lessons exposed to high school athletes are not usually understood by them until they are older.

Any scout who sees a team go in the tank to lose a game is not interested in any of those players who stood behind their coach and accepted that instruction. Scouts look for leaders who rise above others and obstacles, even if their own coach is the obstacle.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Canoe_Trophy#1971-The_Florida_Flop

[wrangler 157]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Canoe_Trophy#1971-The_Florida_Flop

Woulda been nice to see him just hand off.

The opposite attitude was shown by Ted Williams, who refused to sit the last day of the season and preserve his .400 batting average. He insisted on playing. He ended up with .406 for the year, as I recall, but that's not the point. He wanted to take only what he earned, the hard way.

[iceNsteel 0]

I think it's probably good on a social level that most people wouldn't cheer this sort of strategy. But this does highlight the reason why organizers and participants have two separate jobs to do. For the participant winning the tournament, or league championship, is the primary objective. Organizers need to set up a system that reinforces a set of sportsmanship principals if that's what they are after. But the entire notion of competitive sports supports the idea that winning matters. At the Bantam level and higher kids are ready for that aspect of the game. It's no longer that everyone is going to make a team, or see the same amount of playing time.