My beef with Alex Ovechkin

[chippa13 1844]

All good points; my leadership comments weren't about his comments pre and post game 4 because you're right what the hell is he supposed to say??? My opinion is based on the fact that for the last few years we've seen a very talented team seemingly lay down and die in the playoffs

Talented teams, yes, but not teams with the strongest blueline. In the playoffs, that kind of thing can be exposed.

[docar15 1]

Talent will only get you so far. System and experience will eventually take over. Coach Boudreau does not have a system and GM McPhee does not beleive in experience.

In my humble opinion, they are nothing like the Isles of the 80s.

25c.

[HattrickSwayze 3]

For the guys knocking him for talking about playing injured, just an FYI... he didn't use that as an excuse and actually said he didn't think injuries had anything to do with his lackluster year (by his standards it was lackluster).

[EBondo 232]

Kind of like how in golf Furyk has the ugliest swing ever but it works so why change it.

I see you Jim Furyk, and raise you Charles Barkley.

[chippa13 1844]

Doesn't follow, Barkley is terrible with that swing, Furyk wins with his.

[Joshison 1]

I see you Jim Furyk, and raise you Charles Barkley.

I don't like to watch his swing ever, in fear of getting a case of the shanks.

[xrickyb86x 1]

For the guys knocking him for talking about playing injured, just an FYI... he didn't use that as an excuse and actually said he didn't think injuries had anything to do with his lackluster year (by his standards it was lackluster).

Do you expect any NHL player say otherwise?

[HattrickSwayze 3]

No, I was just pointing that out because I've seen some people jumping on him for bringing up his injuries and claiming it was an excuse for his (relatively) poor play.

[SolarWind 23]

Ovi is fast. Doesn't matter if he bales hay for 200 feet, he's got wheels. Next do you want to talk about how Gretzky should have been taking Laura Stamm classes on the weekends?

exactly!

Russian choppy skating style is just as (if not more) effective than the Canadian smooth-long-full-stride style of Crosby

in fact Skinner compares the two in his skating video and suggest that the first one is faster.

visual appeal isn't relevant, just look how much ice Ovie covers in very short period of time and also how shifty and agile he is both are qualities go a great skater.

having that said I got to say that the comrade has turned into a bit of a rock star - too much fluff, too little substance

hard work eventually beats talant & this is what I like about Crosby how every summer he goes back home & works on his weaknesses.

[phonak 0]

And that worked out so well against TB...

Not at all.. I'm happy TB won.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here, with the disclosure that I'm a caps fan, so you can judge it how you like.

Let me start by saying, I think Alex Ovechkin in a Hall of Fame Player for sure as long as he keeps his current streak of things. Meaning, I think he is a great player, and probably one of the top 5 in the league overall.

Here is my beef with the Gr8 8. Starting out with his playing style, after watching him over the past 5+ years, I have a pretty good idea of his playing style, and I have a pretty fair amount of examination of his game. My first beef with his game is his lack of effort in the Defensive Zone. Watch film of him in the D-Zone, he literally stands around more than ANY other player on his team, and one of the most effortless D-players in the league. But as soon as high hockey senses tell him that his team is in an opportunity to make a Offensive rush, he puts what seems 100% effort into the game.

That was the case for the first few season. However, in the past few, he has made a much more concerted effort in the defensive zone. Does he lapse, certainly, and his focus is primarily on the offensive game. That's why he doesn't play the PK, and is the player in the box for bench minors. But when they are pinned in, he does play D, he is often the first player back chasing down a breakaway.

Next, is his style of hitting. First of all, he hits to injure about 60% of the time, and hits for possession of the puck about 40%. Watch some of his film, a majority of his hits are #1, a DEFINITE charging, meaning taking at least 5-7 FULL, POWERFUL strides, to where he anticipates where his target is going to be. #2 is the amount of times he leaves his feet (which I know has been debated on, but I am just listing it, because he does it MORE than others). That is not to say that's the only way he hits, and also that also doesn't mean others do it A LOT less, but he more than certainly does it quite a bit more than others.

Ovechkin is a big hitter. He finishes his checks hard. Any player who is a big hitter will play the body first, puck separation is a by product of that. That does not mean that he is playing to injure. Playing to injure to me is dangerous hits from behind. Ovechkin has very few of those plays on his resume. He has some bone shakers, but most are clean, stand up hits. There are a few that go over the line, but any player who hits a lot has those on tape. That doesn't mean they are dirty. He plays the game at 100% all the time, which means he goes fast to every puck. That's not taking 5-7 strides with an intent to injure, that's "that is my puck, and I'm getting it" mentality

After that, I get a more in-depth. Skating stride, watch his style of stride, first of all, its actually pretty slow. He bobs (Spelling?) his head and torso while in full speed. And he kicks his heals way up in his stride, along with not coming back to center with his stride. Also, he swings his stick a lot when he skates, not moving his momentum with his arms back and forth parallel with his legs (losing lots of energy). The ONLY reason everyone likes how he looks while he plays is because his strings in front and a lot of his equipment is moving violently and makes him look like he is faster than everyone else, and in fact really slower than he COULD be.

He is not slow. He is not an efficient skater, but he is not slow. I would say he is quick, not fast, if that makes sense. He can change direction with the puck going full speed, he can do things with the puck while skating at full speed that many other NHLers slow down to do. He is certainly not the fastest in the league, but to say he is slow is just wrong. There are 600ish players on 30 teams in the league. I would say Ovechkin is in the top 5 or 6 on any team in the league

I have many other problems with his game, and I might update with more later, but lastly I will end with his Captain-ing ability, or in my opinion, lack there of.

Now, before I jump into this topic, I can't say this for sure, because I have never been in the building to watch him in TV timeouts, and other stoppages, nor have I seen him in the locker room. But that is where my lack of knowledge stops. Lets look at the facts, winners of Stanley Cups over the past 10 years.....2009-10 - Chicago Blackhawks, 2008-09 - Pittsburgh Penguins, 2007-08 - Detroit Red Wings, 2006-07 - Anaheim Ducks, 2005-06 - Carolina Hurricanes, 2003-04 - Tampa Bay Lightning, 2002-03 - New Jersey Devils, 2001-02 - Detroit Red Wings, 2000-01 - Colorado Avalanche, 1999-2000 - New Jersey Devils. What do all of these teams have in common, GREAT LEADERSHIP. Some more than others, but 8/10 arguably had Hall of Fame Leaders. I have yet to see OV come out of his shell and become a great leader. IMHO, he doesn't need to be the Captain, maybe alternate captain. I don't think he doesn't deserve it, but I also don't think he needs it, let him get 150 points and give the C to someone else.

I am on the fence with him as a Captain. I would prefer to have someone like Laich wear the C and just let Ovechkin be Ovechkin. I think he has changed his play in response to the responsibilities that now come with a captaincy.

However, I think your analysis is off. Chicago - Coaching change from Savard to the Stache, Penguins - Added a veteran leader with Guerin and changed coaches mid season from Thierren to Bylsma. Where was the great leadership when the Pens were out of the playoffs and had to fire their coach? Detroit. They had a core of players who had won multiple cups with perhaps one of the greatest captains to ever play hockey in Yzerman. Lidstrom took over as Captain on a team with several captains. It wasn't the same situation as being given the C on a young building team. Same with the Devils, Avs etc, all were established teams, not rebuilding franchises.

I'm done venting, but I will close with this last piece. In his post-game interview after Game 4, 2-3 days ago, he didn't know what to say after getting swept, now I will agree some people should be speechless, but your the CAPTAIN, and MAIN MAN in Washington, you need to say SOMETHING.

You have a point to make, or beef with one of my thoughts, lets discuss.

I'm not sure where you got that from

"We fight, you know, it was a one goal game, we just lost it"

He was asked what would he have done different

"Well, we lost, they played their system, when they got the chances to score, they scored. We didn't finish our chances"

Asked about how they felt coming into the series after the 5 game series against the Rangers

"You always think when you win in five games, you have a good chance, and after first loss we was not upset enough. After second loss, after third we was ready to go, but again something been wrong and we don’t win the game"

Asked if they were not as hungry

"I think we were hungry, we were hungry they were hungry, we want to win, they want to win, but someone has to lose. I don't know what else to say right now"

If you are taking that one final sentence, from an obviously upset player, and extrapolating it into a "he didn't say anything" point, then you are simply letting distaste cloud the facts at hand

Here is the video if you want to see it

http://video.capitals.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=849

Ovechkin isn't the problem. He has 50 points in 37 playoff games in his career, including 25 goals. He burns to win every game, and I watch him every game, and his passion to win is obvious.

Jason Arnott was brought in to be a veteran leader on this team (much like Guerin in Pitt,or Andrechuk when the Lightning won their cup). He completely disappeared in the playoffs. Dennis Wideman was one of their best D men since the trade, but missed the playoffs because of injury. Green and Carlson were both injured during the playoffs.

Don't get me wrong, I am not using injuries as an excuse. There is absolutely no excuse for the Caps to be swept by the Lightning. I don't mean that as a disparagement to the Lightning. They were the better team for much of the year, and were only a few points behind the caps entering the playoffs, and they outplayed them.

I'm just saying that the issues on this team do not even remotely start with Ovechin. The Management has failed to address the need for legit depth at center. Look at your list of stanley cup winners, and look at the depth they had at center. Depth at center and solid defense win championships, and those two things the caps have failed to adequately address for years

[Caz 0]

I'm a caps fan, so you can judge it how you like.

You have a good opinion and bring up good points, your not really biased at all. Unlike many people, you decided to give good solid back-up to your points, thats what I wanted out of this thread.

That was the case for the first few season. However, in the past few, he has made a much more concerted effort in the defensive zone. Does he lapse, certainly, and his focus is primarily on the offensive game. That's why he doesn't play the PK, and is the player in the box for bench minors. But when they are pinned in, he does play D, he is often the first player back chasing down a breakaway.

I agree with almost all of this, except for the in bold portion, IMO, he shouldn't be the one back-checking, yes it is GREAT to back-check hard, I incorporate in my game quite a bit, but his centers need to do the back-checking (more) than he needs to do it. GETmaPOINT?

Ovechkin is a big hitter. He finishes his checks hard. Any player who is a big hitter will play the body first, puck separation is a by product of that. That does not mean that he is playing to injure. Playing to injure to me is dangerous hits from behind. Ovechkin has very few of those plays on his resume. He has some bone shakers, but most are clean, stand up hits. There are a few that go over the line, but any player who hits a lot has those on tape. That doesn't mean they are dirty. He plays the game at 100% all the time, which means he goes fast to every puck. That's not taking 5-7 strides with an intent to injure, that's "that is my puck, and I'm getting it" mentality

I disagree with this almost completely. He TOTALLY hits to injure, he rarely hits a guy and picks up the puck afterwards, or rather he hits and doesn't pick up the puck after more. If you watch him with 75% of his "BIG" hits, he leaves his feet more than most players do, and he charges, now it might only be 3, 4, or 5 strides but he does his low center of gravity skate to do it, most other players hit much differently.

He is not slow. He is not an efficient skater, but he is not slow. I would say he is quick, not fast, if that makes sense. He can change direction with the puck going full speed, he can do things with the puck while skating at full speed that many other NHLers slow down to do.

I was trying to say this all along, but you put into better words.

About the interview, its a later interview than most of us saw. I saw one, in which it was 1 minute long and he was speechless.

[flaming_june 2]

That is one huge block of post. It's going to take some time to digest it.

People need to understand the OP's post where he says Ovi could be faster, not that he's slow. Whether that's true or not it's not something we can know definitively. As for the other points, there's no counter argument to it. Sure he works hard when backchecking, as he's got high work rate in general. However when he's playing positional D, he's just not good enough and indeed floats. That though, has to do with Brucy's and his assistant's coaching style. We'll have to see if the coaching change or Bruce's defensive posture change for next season.

[burrn 0]

Lately, I've realized that if he just stopped with the whole tinted visor, russian flag tuuk, baggy pants with the zippers undone, straps and strings and laces flying around everywhere, sunglass & cowboy hat stuff, I'd be completely fine with him. Like that's gonna happen

[IniNew 53]

Lately, I've realized that if he just stopped with the whole tinted visor, russian flag tuuk, baggy pants with the zippers undone, straps and strings and laces flying around everywhere, sunglass & cowboy hat stuff, I'd be completely fine with him. Like that's gonna happen

Don Cherry, is that you?

[xrickyb86x 1]

I look at Ovi play and I figure there has to be some kind of unenforced rule against all the extra flapping duck tail padding and laces down to his knees. Am I right?

[IniNew 53]

I look at Ovi play and I figure there has to be some kind of unenforced rule against all the extra flapping duck tail padding and laces down to his knees. Am I right?

Nope: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26285

[xrickyb86x 1]

Nope: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26285

That was a good read. Thanks! It does make me wonder how "legal" the jersey sleeves stopping on the elbows thing is. I've seen some guys that have half the elbow pad exposed.

[chippa13 1844]

9.5 Protective Equipment - All protective equipment, except gloves, headgear and goalkeepers’ leg guards must be worn under the uniform. Should it be brought to the attention of the Referee that a player or goalkeeper is wearing, for example, an elbow pad that is not covered by his jersey, he shall instruct the player or goalkeeper to cover up the pad and a second violation by the same player or goalkeeper would result in a minor penalty being assessed.

Technically, it is illegal to have the elbow pad uncovered but I would be shocked if it ever got enforced.

[IniNew 53]

Same thing I was thinking. Those rolling the sleeves up definitely do not have a jersey that extends into the cuff of the glove. That's the only thing that really stuck out to me though as far as unenforced rules goes.

[dsjunior1388 81]

After that, I get a more in-depth. Skating stride, watch his style of stride, first of all, its actually pretty slow. He bobs (Spelling?) his head and torso while in full speed. And he kicks his heals way up in his stride, along with not coming back to center with his stride. Also, he swings his stick a lot when he skates, not moving his momentum with his arms back and forth parallel with his legs (losing lots of energy). The ONLY reason everyone likes how he looks while he plays is because his strings in front and a lot of his equipment is moving violently and makes him look like he is faster than everyone else, and in fact really slower than he COULD be.

I have many other problems with his game, and I might update with more later, but lastly I will end with his Captain-ing ability, or in my opinion, lack there of.

Now, before I jump into this topic, I can't say this for sure, because I have never been in the building to watch him in TV timeouts, and other stoppages, nor have I seen him in the locker room. But that is where my lack of knowledge stops. Lets look at the facts, winners of Stanley Cups over the past 10 years.....2009-10 - Chicago Blackhawks, 2008-09 - Pittsburgh Penguins, 2007-08 - Detroit Red Wings, 2006-07 - Anaheim Ducks, 2005-06 - Carolina Hurricanes, 2003-04 - Tampa Bay Lightning, 2002-03 - New Jersey Devils, 2001-02 - Detroit Red Wings, 2000-01 - Colorado Avalanche, 1999-2000 - New Jersey Devils. What do all of these teams have in common, GREAT LEADERSHIP. Some more than others, but 8/10 arguably had Hall of Fame Leaders. I have yet to see OV come out of his shell and become a great leader. IMHO, he doesn't need to be the Captain, maybe alternate captain. I don't think he doesn't deserve it, but I also don't think he needs it, let him get 150 points and give the C to someone else.

Fundamentals are important when you're 12. Guys such as Furyk, or Cal Ripken Jr. or Brett Favre get the job done, even though what they do makes youth coach's shudder. Ripken changed his swing drastically a dozen or more times in his career, Favre completed passes while breaking every cardinal rule int he QB book, be it throwing off his back foot, throwing deep on the run, throwing away from the body, etc. He does have the most interceptions ever, but he also has the most yards, TDs, plus a Super Bowl.

It didn't take 6 years for NHL defenseman to suddenly think "Oh, he's not fast, lets play him tight." The guy wins races on a regular basis, beats players to open ice, and gets results. Not as much this year, but things happen.

On the leadership point, there's another factor to consider. Chris Clark leaves the captaincy and the team in 09, and the team needs a new "C." First off, who else could take the mantle in 2010? The team moved veterans out. The core of the team was and is very young. Backstrom, Laich, Green, Semin, etc are younger than Ovie, have less experience and much less stature. I don't know if the caps elect their captain as a team or if it's the coach and GM decision, but either way, there really isn't anyone else to give it to, without insulting Ovie and causing problems in the room.

Besides that, he may not be taking up a coaching role, (All though he very well could be) but there is no doubt he is the emotional center and heart of the team, and his passion and desire are a good example for the young Caps to follow.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

On the leadership point, there's another factor to consider. Chris Clark leaves the captaincy and the team in 09, and the team needs a new "C." First off, who else could take the mantle in 2010? The team moved veterans out. The core of the team was and is very young. Backstrom, Laich, Green, Semin, etc are younger than Ovie, have less experience and much less stature. I don't know if the caps elect their captain as a team or if it's the coach and GM decision, but either way, there really isn't anyone else to give it to, without insulting Ovie and causing problems in the room.

Besides that, he may not be taking up a coaching role, (All though he very well could be) but there is no doubt he is the emotional center and heart of the team, and his passion and desire are a good example for the young Caps to follow.

For the record, Laich is 27. Semin is also 2 years older, but not a leader. Laich has declined the A because he is the NHLPA team rep, and has said he doesn't want to take the A or C and not be able to fully commit.

He is undoubtedly one of the leaders in that locker room and I'll be very upset to see him go. He plays all three forward positions when needed, he is good for 20-25 goals and 50-60 points per season (this season being an exception). Plays the PP and PK and never takes an optional practice off. He is vocal in the locker room, and while certainly not a fighter, will fight when he sees a teammate wronged.

He was my choice for Captain a couple of seasons back, and still is. Unfortunately, when someone like Leonsis is the owner, it's image driven as well as ego driven. He sees someone like Crosby as a young captain have success and wants the same for his team.

It's one of my biggest issues with the Caps, Leonsis is far to quick to settle for mediocrity. Any criticism of the team, he will be out with a blog post defending them, regardless of how well researched and documented the work is.

Ovechkin should be left to be Ovechkin. He played fast, and reckless (but not really dangerous) and with an exuberance that has disappeared since he was given the C. He can't play the way he has done because there is ultimately more responsibility being a C.

[ktang 34]

I agree with almost all of this, except for the in bold portion, IMO, he shouldn't be the one back-checking, yes it is GREAT to back-check hard, I incorporate in my game quite a bit, but his centers need to do the back-checking (more) than he needs to do it. GETmaPOINT?

In most modern hockey systems the first forward back backchecks hard, not necessarily the centre, and then continues on to be the 3rd player low in the zone until a switch. This became especially important after the lockout with the emphasis on calling interference and hooking on the rushes.

The centre may be much deeper in the zone when the other team breaks out (forechecking, or just caught), so one of the wingers would have to be the primary backchecker. This responsibility was part of Boudreau's emphasis on defensive awareness.

[Caz 0]

In most modern hockey systems the first forward back backchecks hard, not necessarily the centre, and then continues on to be the 3rd player low in the zone until a switch. This became especially important after the lockout with the emphasis on calling interference and hooking on the rushes.

The centre may be much deeper in the zone when the other team breaks out (forechecking, or just caught), so one of the wingers would have to be the primary backchecker. This responsibility was part of Boudreau's emphasis on defensive awareness.

I fully understand where you are coming from, but if you look back to who I quoted that off of, they were saying HE back-checks a lot. Which by your definition means he is the first forward back (which is what should happen), but that also means he is then the highest forward in the play. This argument (back-checking) is one I can't win, but IMO, they (the caps) need to change up their style to have him back-checking less, and play more effective D-zone coverage.

[CAmmon 2]

Penguins - Added a veteran leader with Guerin and changed coaches mid season from Thierren to Bylsma. Where was the great leadership when the Pens were out of the playoffs and had to fire their coach?

As a Pittsburgher, the Pens quit on Therrien to get him fired, end of story.