New Grafs....oh oh

[B-Nads 0]

UPDATE - I went by yesterday morning and picked up my skates. Inspected closely, and no issues. The manager on the floor at the time was the initial guy I had spoken with - not the one who was in the day I brought the skates back. This guy wanted me to bring them in to bake, profile and sharpen, but I didn't have time. He told me he was in again today, so I went down. I get the sneaking suspicion I would have had less headache from day 1 had he been the guy I dealt with in person. I got the royal treatment - one of the sales reps set me up with the bake and fit, then the manager did the profile and sharpening himself, and didn't charge me a dime. He MAY have restored my faith in that store - the older chap was there again, but he didn't even look me in the eye as he passed in front of me 3 or 4 times - lol. Anyway, I have my skates, got treated well today, and was taken care of by Graf.

[hockeymass 11]

UPDATE - I went by yesterday morning and picked up my skates. Inspected closely, and no issues. The manager on the floor at the time was the initial guy I had spoken with - not the one who was in the day I brought the skates back. This guy wanted me to bring them in to bake, profile and sharpen, but I didn't have time. He told me he was in again today, so I went down. I get the sneaking suspicion I would have had less headache from day 1 had he been the guy I dealt with in person. I got the royal treatment - one of the sales reps set me up with the bake and fit, then the manager did the profile and sharpening himself, and didn't charge me a dime. He MAY have restored my faith in that store - the older chap was there again, but he didn't even look me in the eye as he passed in front of me 3 or 4 times - lol. Anyway, I have my skates, got treated well today, and was taken care of by Graf.

Really happy to hear that your story had a happy ending.

[noupf 42]

Ok, so after seeing this thread, i decided to go and look at my 735's and i have the same problems as the OP and actually something else that is unique to me. My right skate is pretty good, but my left is terrible and is just as offset as the OP. Another screwed up thing on my skate is that the rear rivets are ssilver in color and all the rest ( even the right skate ) has black rivets. This is my first good pair of ice hockey skates ( played roller for 15 year and just got into ice this year ). I didnt know to look at the holders and the way they were mounted when i purchased them from my LHS about 8 months ago here in New York. The crappy thing here is that every once in a while, while playing, i make some strides or motions with my left skate and something just felt off or just not right.......i wonder if this slight offset can really make that much of a difference. There really have been a bunch of times i felt like my blade was broken or loose......maybe its the bad offset.

Any ideas? They are 8 months old, but I feel like I was taken for a ride............

[DigDug 5]

It couldn't hurt to call Graf. Perhaps, even show them this thread as proof of a QC-level defect.

[Davetronz 109]

...the rear rivets are ssilver in color and all the rest ( even the right skate ) has black rivets...

Do you have a picture of these silver and black rivets?

Graf normally uses black or silver screws - at least I've never seen a pair of un-modified grafs out of the factory with rivets instead of screws.

Maybe your 735's are a few generations old, and I can't remember if they used rivets at any point in the past.

You also mentioned that the holders were "mounted when I purchased them from my LHS about 8 months ago".

Do you mean that your skates had no holders at all, and your LHS mounted a set for you?

[noupf 42]

I purchased the skate, with the holders already mounted, right out of the box. Sorry about the confusion. The holder is really offset by a good 4-5 mm, Here are some pics.....the multi colored rivets really bug me now......meaning, i wonder if these were defects of some sort. I'm gonna head down to the shop i purchased them from and see what i can figure out.

[Davetronz 109]

Well, I'd definitely suggest looking into the holder offset. They've done a pretty sloppy mounting/alignment job there.

Next:

- I'm not sure if your 735's are an older model (maybe circa 2007 to early 2009 if I'd guess), or if you just receive different looking grafs in your area (I live about 15 mins from Graf's Calgary warehouse). I'm fairly certain, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, that these are ~3-4 years old.

- I wouldn't really worry too much about the siver screws as opposed to black screws. They're still graf screws (ie. actual "screws/bolts" that thread into the boot). No one has replaced them with rivets or anything else weird.

- Your 735's are sporting Ultra 5000 holders... Typically, I've only known the 735 to come with Cobra 3000 holders.... Again, not sure if this is "normal" in some areas, or maybe the LHS or Graf switched these at some point. Maybe a special order/custom?

[milezone 0]

You have rust on your steel ^.^ and you have had them 8 months?

[noupf 42]

You have rust on your steel ^.^ and you have had them 8 months?

not sure what your getting at............?

Anyhow, went to the LHS where i purchaed these and the owner gave me the customer service number for graf. I'll give them a call this week and see what they say. The owner did in fact agree that the holders were offset. He did point out however, that the back part of the blade appeared to be inline with the middle of the heel section of the skate. I guess he means that even though the holder is offset, the blade could still be centered pretty well. I looked and it does look ok in regards to being centered with the middle of the heel.

Other than poointing that our to me, He said quite simply to talk to them, explain the issue and see what they say. He said they could very well just send a replacemant pair to the shop and ask for the old ones back. He also said graf will probably contact him too, but either way he said to keep him informed after I talk to them.

[Chadd 916]

I've seen rust on grafs the morning after the first week of use. Their steel oxidizes very quickly.

[noupf 42]

so.......anybody else find this weird? I never noticed this before today.........these were brand new out of the box and have never been modified.....WTF !!! ??? I'm really getting annoyed now. Graf has some explaining to do now........

[dw9509 0]

Those are definitely 2-3 year old model. I just purchased a new pair of 735's and they are all black with the Cobra 3000's. Wow, those were new out-of-the-box with 2 different holders !! As far as the screws go, I noticed that they were all black on the skate with the 3000 holder, that is the correct configuration. I would definitely question the other skate as being modified in some way from where you purchased them from. I would love to know what the Graf rep's response is when he/she see's this.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

I'm pretty sure that your LHS did it, not Graf. Someone probably broke a holder and they pulled it from your skate and replaced it later. It's not like the holder changed anyway.

The silver screws are lighter than the black ones, but are worse than the black ones (they break and get stripped easier)

[cooperalls 4]

I'm pretty sure that your LHS did it, not Graf. Someone probably broke a holder and they pulled it from your skate and replaced it later. It's not like the holder changed anyway.

The silver screws are lighter than the black ones, but are worse than the black ones (they break and get stripped easier)

That's what I'd guess too. The mismount could be Graf's error, but the 3000/5000 switch and different RMS screws probably hapened after the skates left the factory.

The silver RMS screws are aluminum, the black are steel. Typically Graf installs the steel on the 7XX series and below, and the aluminum on the G series.

[DarkStar50 679]

"so.......anybody else find this weird? I never noticed this before today.........these were brand new out of the box and have never been modified.....WTF !!! ??? I'm really getting annoyed now. Graf has some explaining to do now........"

You might want to check out the rest of your gear!

[hockeymass 11]

"so.......anybody else find this weird? I never noticed this before today.........these were brand new out of the box and have never been modified.....WTF !!! ??? I'm really getting annoyed now. Graf has some explaining to do now........"

You might want to check out the rest of your gear!

He's probably using two different gloves

[blue_line 2]

I had a problem with a pair of G3's bought in July 2011. They never seemed "right" with it feeling like a bad sharpening on the back half of the blade. Upon closer inspection, both holders were mis-mounted by 4-5mm off center toward the outsides of the boots. The LHS talked with Graf and I got a warranty replacement. The pair in the store had one good boot and the other had a holder that was mis-mounted by 2-3mm. So, I'm waiting for a new pair from Graf.

I am working with General Sports in Edina, MN. Great shop, great service. I had the skates for about 6 months and sharpened them 3-4 times trying to fix them. They first tried to remount the holders, but when that didn't work, they contacted a Graf rep and arranged the warranty replacement.

Hopefully the next pair is right. If not, I'll probably just work out a shop credit and may wait for the new Bauer Nexus.

[Davetronz 109]

So I've observed that many manufacturers are having quality control issues with skates.

The issues with graf seem to be a bit more pronounced (ie. holders hanging off the ends/sides of boots).

Any idea why?

- Engineering error (boots aren't designed properly so holders need to be mounted quite far off center to align properly)?

- Manufacturing error (machine or human error during production)?

- QA error (someone is letting these walk out the door after production with obvious flaws)?

It seems like Graf is taking responsiblity for these mistakes and replacing some of the boots under warranty.

Why not just up QA and stop them from getting out to the public at all?

[Chadd 916]

Bauer had similar problems with their boots when Vapor XX came out and nobody noticed or cared. Same thing with the CCM Vectors when they were new. The vast majority of the people that have mismounted holders have no idea that their skates have problems. Graf has largely been singled out due to their poor customer service when dealing with the issues in the past.

[DarkStar50 679]

Graf quality control is just as big a problem in their Calgary made figure boot production department as their hockey skates. It has been going on for way too long. It is hard to find people in the production department that care about their work. In Alberta, you can make a lot more money in the oil business than the skate business when it comes to a labor intensive job.

[noupf 42]

UPDATE -

Spoke to graf today and the number I was given was to their retail support department. I spoke to a nice lady who explained that I should go to the place of purchase to have them initiate contact with graf to see what can be done. When I told her that the shop owner gave me this number and that he said that I should contact graf first, she said ok no problem. Here is an email address to send some pictures to and explain your "unique" situation. She said that I should hear back from them within a day or two after the eamil is looked at..........

The waiting game begins....

[doublemajor 0]

It can't be as bad as my Rbk 7K's my right skate had a Tuuk and the left had a CCM. I was not so happy when I brought them back to my LHS. I ended up getting 100.00 back and the left skate ended up getting a tuuk also for free.

[DarkStar50 679]

noupf, the LHS that you purchased the skates from should be doing all the legwork to get your problem solved. They sold you the skates in the first place. Are you going to pay out of pocket to ship the skates back to Calgary? Any shop that makes the customer deal direct with the vendor is just lazy and really doesn't care about their customers.

BTW, could we put this urban legend to rest that if skates are "Made in Canada" they must be made better than those "Made in China" skates? Location of where the skates are made has nothing to do with quality. People in the production line have everything to do with quality.

[Davetronz 109]

It is hard to find people in the production department that care about their work. In Alberta, you can make a lot more money in the oil business than the skate business when it comes to a labor intensive job.

There's definitely still some of us Albertans who would make skates on a production line for less money, rather than get a job up North on a rig. LOL

Good point on Made in Canada vs. Import.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

noupf, the LHS that you purchased the skates from should be doing all the legwork to get your problem solved. They sold you the skates in the first place. Are you going to pay out of pocket to ship the skates back to Calgary? Any shop that makes the customer deal direct with the vendor is just lazy and really doesn't care about their customers.

I keep on hammering that point but nobody listens...sigh