Supplemental Discipline 2013

[Stewie 721]

  On 5/3/2013 at 10:30 PM, OptimusReim said:

Well there you go. Shanny thinks the head was the principal point of contact. That's the key to the whole thing. At that point, it becomes an illegal hit.

I don't agree with him on that, personally. Others might (and probably do).

He also talks about him not getting enough of the body. I don't think they should be suspending players for missing slightly a full check. IMO Gryba did absolutely everything he could to ensure it was a legal hit, he just simply missed. There was no targeting of the head. To me, this was a hockey play gone bad.

And thats where my earlier comment about taking checking out of the game came from. They are going to start discouraging players from going for clean open ice hits if despite keeping the elbow down, feet on the ice, etc they STILL get suspended due to the end result. The only other option for Gryba on this play was to just not make the check at all - which sucks for everyone.

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his other option was to aim better or not give it the possibility of grey area. You can miss your intentions and still get penalized. The interference call was bogus as it wasn't interference, but it in my eyes was still worthy of a penalty. We're all gonna disagree and have our own opinions, even for me it isn't fully clear from any replay I've seen

[IPv6Freely 2100]

Yea, this wont be the first time I've disagreed with a call or suspension, and certainly won't be the last.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Watch the freeze frame at 1:42. Eller's body/shoulder position has not changed, and his head is turning to the right. That's the first time I've seen the video stopped at that moment. Looks like first contact was indeed to the head.

When I first saw the hit at full speed...I screamed suspension right away. After hearing (almost) everyone in the hockey world say "clean hit" I assumed there would be no suspension and that everything they had seen was going to be in place b/c they all talked about shoulder first and not targeting the head....I guess Shanny and his crew see it differently.

As I've said numerous times...hit through a guys body below the shoulders...not up into the head and these grey areas and discussions all go away.

[bagsbie 8]

  On 5/3/2013 at 1:22 PM, RadioGaGa said:

But, Eller makes no attempt to brace his fall, which is likely what caused most of the facial fractures...well, not the fall as much as the landing.

He was OUT when he went down. There was definitely contact with the head...now, isn't THAT what they want to get rid of????

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Eller was out cold before he hit the ice, hence he could not have possibly braced for the fall!

  On 5/3/2013 at 8:46 PM, Chadd said:

I agree, it will be very interesting to see how the suspension is supported. None of the angles I saw looked like a hit that met any of the criteria for a head shot.From what I saw, Gryba tried to get in front of the shoulder so as not to hit him from behind. Given the number of hits that they let off the hook because the players didn't meet all of the head shot criteria, I just can't see how this fits with past decisions.

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One thing that is also overlooked in the analysis is the players' height difference: Gryba is at least two inches taller than Eller. Consider that when Eller was accepting the pass he was turning with knees well bent for the turn. There goes another two inches at least. Although, I do think that the hit was clean (close to blindside, I think) we are talking about at least four inches that makes Gryba's shoulder perfectly leveled with Eller's head! Really, difficult situation, indeed. Gryba did not target the head but the head was, as it turned out, a principal point of contact.

[RadioGaGa 162]

I was offering the fact that he didn't brace as evidence of head contact, because he was out...not questioning why he didn't brace himself.

[flip12 721]

  On 5/3/2013 at 8:27 PM, RadioGaGa said:

And, they should do away with this "Principle contact" crap. Contact to the head should be contact to the head...regardless of whether you hit shouldeer/chest/or whatever first. The fewer grey (gray) areas the better.

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To me the hit looks consistent with hits that have resulted in suspensions, such as Lupul's hit on Hedman, but not Kronwall's hit on Voracek. In both cases, the head is the principle point of contact, but in Kronwall's hit (just like Stuart's on Landeskog), it's a full body check, so there's no suspension.

Again, to me, it looks like Gryba has Eller lined up the whole way, sees Eller is getting the pass through his peripheral vision and has it timed perfectly, but at the last moment, the pass is behind Eller's angle toward the boards so he turns his skates up ice and Gryba ends up getting the front of Eller instead of his whole body. It could have been clean had he just stepped in front of Eller and chipped away the puck. Eller was unaware of him being there, so even with Gryba's weight shifted back off his lead shoulder, Eller probably would have bounced off him and spun to the ice, but there'd be no punch to it. It's a tough adjustment to make in that fraction of a second, but like Shanahan said in that video explaining why Stuart's hit on Landeskog wasn't a penalty, there's never been more responsibility for the hitters to keep it clean. Hit the head but not the body (and cause an injury, which I agree, is a strange way to consider whether or not to suspend) and you've got the recipe for this kind of suspension. If you can't get the body square, and you're lining up a blind-side hit, maybe you have to use a roller hockey bump rather than a full-on check.

As a general note, the term "suicide pass" seems off. It's not a closed loop.

  On 4/26/2013 at 12:23 AM, Morten said:

Ok, Brown diserved that. Imo just like Perry(Anaheim), a player that is good at the game, but does these stupid things that make me dislike them.

Mabye thats why I'm more into euro hockey style, real skills, no bashing and smashing.

But even the Sedins are taking that up a bit, to "survive", they take "some" liberties aswell.

?

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I agree. I think the NHL should adopt the international ice sheet dimensions. Not that European hockey is squeaky clean, but with more space I think the increased velocity and mass of today's NHL would be at a safer pressure level.

[Morten 2]

  On 5/4/2013 at 4:27 PM, flip12 said:

To me the hit looks consistent with hits that have resulted in suspensions, such as Lupul's hit on Hedman, but not Kronwall's hit on Voracek. In both cases, the head is the principle point of contact, but in Kronwall's hit (just like Stuart's on Landeskog), it's a full body check, so there's no suspension.

Again, to me, it looks like Gryba has Eller lined up the whole way, sees Eller is getting the pass through his peripheral vision and has it timed perfectly, but at the last moment, the pass is behind Eller's angle toward the boards so he turns his skates up ice and Gryba ends up getting the front of Eller instead of his whole body. It could have been clean had he just stepped in front of Eller and chipped away the puck. Eller was unaware of him being there, so even with Gryba's weight shifted back off his lead shoulder, Eller probably would have bounced off him and spun to the ice, but there'd be no punch to it. It's a tough adjustment to make in that fraction of a second, but like Shanahan said in that video explaining why Stuart's hit on Landeskog wasn't a penalty, there's never been more responsibility for the hitters to keep it clean. Hit the head but not the body (and cause an injury, which I agree, is a strange way to consider whether or not to suspend) and you've got the recipe for this kind of suspension. If you can't get the body square, and you're lining up a blind-side hit, maybe you have to use a roller hockey bump rather than a full-on check.

As a general note, the term "suicide pass" seems off. It's not a closed loop.

I agree. I think the NHL should adopt the international ice sheet dimensions. Not that European hockey is squeaky clean, but with more space I think the increased velocity and mass of today's NHL would be at a safer pressure level.

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yes, euro is played differently because of the dimensions.

I have always liked bumps and easy stuff better, moreso smart plays to consume energy and keep your speed up.

Though big fan of hip checks.

[chk hrd 164]

Abby gets 2 games. Not sure if I agree with the call, they called him for charging. Yes he took a few strides from the center to build up speed but coasted awhile before the hit. It didn't look like he targeted the head, more like the upper body and his feet didn't leave the ice until after contact was made.

I think what we'll start seeing is guys trying to go in low and the receiving player trying to go vertical. Especially on the boards with hip checks. The it will be people getting submarined, knees taken out and head impacts from going ass over.

[Larry54 243]

  On 5/6/2013 at 11:06 PM, chk hrd said:

Abby gets 2 games. Not sure if I agree with the call, they called him for charging. Yes he took a few strides from the center to build up speed but coasted awhile before the hit. It didn't look like he targeted the head, more like the upper body and his feet didn't leave the ice until after contact was made.

I think what we'll start seeing is guys trying to go in low and the receiving player trying to go vertical. Especially on the boards with hip checks. The it will be people getting submarined, knees taken out and head impacts from going ass over.

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It sounds similar to something I posted over a year ago.

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/58592-2011-2012-suspension-thread/?p=904945

[Stewie 721]

  On 5/6/2013 at 11:06 PM, chk hrd said:

Abby gets 2 games. Not sure if I agree with the call, they called him for charging. Yes he took a few strides from the center to build up speed but coasted awhile before the hit. It didn't look like he targeted the head, more like the upper body and his feet didn't leave the ice until after contact was made.

I think what we'll start seeing is guys trying to go in low and the receiving player trying to go vertical. Especially on the boards with hip checks. The it will be people getting submarined, knees taken out and head impacts from going ass over.

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at first i didnt think it was suspension worthy. still on the fence about it, but again, grey area. could have still inflicted some pain without getting a penalty. The charging call was bogus as was grybas interference call (guy had the puck in posession) but the refs were just grasping for something that kinda made sense in both cases.

[flip12 721]

Calling a penalty on that Gryba hit on the ice would have been really hard. Seeing all the detail in slow motion is what makes it suspension worthy, at least in keeping with consistency in the Dept. of Player Safety's rulings; definitely not interference though. It happened so fast...is it one of those situations where they have to call it something because it was such a nasty looking play? I honestly don't know.

[Machinehead2k5 32]

And how does this elbow (intentional like Ference's) go unpunished??

[hamstercaster 2]

Even with my homer hat on I can't defend that play by Bourque...

[flip12 721]

It's especially disconcerting since Rene's got happy elbows, just ask Backstrom. And, seriously, an elbow thrown at Conacher? He's half Bourque's size. Deplorable.

[Neal 41]

That is a stupid play by Bourque and he is obviously looking to harm Conacher. You could argue he was aiming for shoulder and glanced off the shoulder into the head, but throwing an elbow that high is just stupid.

[Chadd 916]

  On 5/9/2013 at 7:12 PM, Neal said:

You could argue he was aiming for shoulder and glanced off the shoulder into the head, but throwing an elbow that high is just stupid.

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I don't think anyone could argue that with a straight face.

[flip12 721]

Elbow to shoulder would be awkward anyway, awkward and reprehensible enough. It still troubles me that this is Bourque and the two examples of his elbows are aggressive plays against smaller, skilled players. There is absolutely no place for that (whether it's a team's skilled player that's targeted or not).

[wrangler 157]

Torres has been suspended for the remainder of the current series: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=60&id=249243

[Chadd 916]

I really wish the league would go with cumulative suspensions. Guys that do this time and again need to sit more than a couple games here and there. It's not like sitting out for a playoff game impacts them financially anyway.

[Dr. Funk 6]

This stuff is a joke. The league implicitly endorses this behavior (headshots and from-behind hits, specifically) by their - intended or not - subjective and erratic punishment system. They want the on-ice mayhem and off-ice controversy it sparks.

These types of predatory hits can be essentially eliminated from the game starting tomorrow, if the league would want. The league needs to press "reset" on all suspensions at the outset of next season and punish these infractions just like high-sticking; take emotion and intent out of it. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean to high-stick a guy, it's a minimum double-minor if blood is drawn. Same thing for this type of nonsense.

You hit someone from behind or in the head, you earn a match penalty, you're ejected from the game, and earn an automatic (x)-game suspension without pay, whether you're Pavel Datsyuk or Raffi Torres. Whether you meant to or not. In the playoffs, you're ejected for (the remainder of the series, [x] number of games, whatever the league decides before the season). If it's the Finals, you're done for the year and you don't get your name on the Cup if your squad wins. Each time you're deemed guilty of one of these infractions, your suspension doubles.

This should not be a collectively-bargained issue. This is a matter of player safety, much like headshots in the NFL. And I don't think that anyone can objectively state that "players can't change their stripes" or "these hits have always been and will always be in the game." Look at Matt Cooke. Guy was a weasel hitting to hurt/end careers, and now he's just another guy who hits people to separate them from the puck.

90% of these illegal hits - and 100% of the intentional/predatory ones - are gone with a "hardliner" policy like this.

[chippa13 1844]

It would be eliminated tomorrow if players had as much respect for each other as they all claim.

[Dr. Funk 6]

And that's probably the best point in this entire discussion, Chippa. Well-said.

[Chadd 916]

As long as teams give contracts to guys that play that way, no amount of peer pressure will make a difference.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Surely there won't be more than a fine for Quick. I can't imagine them suspending him for a verbal thing...now, if he touched the ref...different story.

[Chadd 916]

Speaking of fines, I was impressed to see the NHL follow up on the Sharks with a big fine. You can't have teams publicly undermining the league with comments like the ones they made. At most you say "we disagree but respect the decision of the league...."

http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9289791/2013-stanley-cup-playoffs-nhl-fines-san-jose-sharks-100k