Home Skate Sharpener

[isk8byu 4]

I am not sure it really matters which machine you decide to learn on, they all have components that will take time to understand how they interact with each other. My advice would be to study all the literature/resources you can, so you know exactly what you are trying to achieve on the skate blade with the machine (Wissota's website comes to mind). Youtube as well has Blademaster/Guspro training videos for the SPB850.

Once you know what you are trying to do to the skate blade, then start learning the components of the machine/holder and how they will help you achieve a good sharpening (levers up/down, hollow adjustments, etc).

Also, get a good edge level checker...lots of previous posts on this website.

It will take time at first and lots of practice. I remember taking at least 20+ minutes per pair to get the edges even when I started.

[Mimizk 114]

Hey guys, what is your favorite skate holder?

If I would not be satisfied with Blademaster SH2000, what should I buy for next?

I'm considering Wissota.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Old thread bump...

There's a used EZ Sharp machine that looks to be in excellent shape on local craigslist.  Opinions on these?  I expect that equal price to equal price folks would want to go Blade Master or Blackstone, but I'm wondering if at $450 the EZ Sharp is the way to go.

I would be using it for my own stuff, not looking to make money or something.

Mark

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

It's a fair price, but the machine at its very best, does an average sharpen. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Thanks!

What machine differences matter when it comes to a good sharpen or a bad sharpen?  Is it down to holder differences, spindle rpm, rigidity, ??

Not trying to discount the operator, just trying to learn what matter for a skate sharpener.

Mark

[marka 526]

Howdy,

In looking at these, am I right in seeing that the SBP850, X-01, and Wissota 911 packages are all about the same price?  These are the pros/cons I'm seeing, at least so far...

X-01, $979 -- Can do FBV out of the box, good holder, 5759 SFM, every different hollow / profile is another $50.

SBP850, $1k -- Full 8" wheel, 7225 sfm, holder not as good as the x-01 or Wissota, FBV dresser setup more money.

Wissota, $1.1k -- Good holder, 7" wheel & lower 6322 sfm, FBV dresser setup more money

and just because:

Sparx, $899 -- Essentially no "training time", awesome dust control, "runs by itself", $50 grinding rings wear out every 40 sharpenings and are ROH/FBV profile specific, unknown long term reliability & support, more stuff to break / go wrong, unknown resale ten years from now.

X02, $1305 -- Same as x01, except faster (7225 SFM)?

Does that seem fair?  If that's accurate, then I think I'm most interested in the SBP850 and the Wissota and my next question is will I hate the SH2000 holder?  And will Blade Master let me sub in a SH6000 for the difference in retail cost between the two?

I also see ads at the top of MSH all the time for the X-01 for $699, but I don't see that price anywhere on Blackstone's site... Old ad?

Mark

[IPv6Freely 2093]

For that price range, in my opinion, there's one decision making point:

Are you interested/willing to put in the time and effort to learn to sharpen skates, yes or no?

Yes = X-01

No = Sparx

[sparky1 29]

22 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

In looking at these, am I right in seeing that the SBP850, X-01, and Wissota 911 packages are all about the same price?  These are the pros/cons I'm seeing, at least so far...

X-01, $979 -- Can do FBV out of the box, good holder, 5759 SFM, every different hollow / profile is another $50.

SBP850, $1k -- Full 8" wheel, 7225 sfm, holder not as good as the x-01 or Wissota, FBV dresser setup more money.

Wissota, $1.1k -- Good holder, 7" wheel & lower 6322 sfm, FBV dresser setup more money

and just because:

Sparx, $899 -- Essentially no "training time", awesome dust control, "runs by itself", $50 grinding rings wear out every 40 sharpenings and are ROH/FBV profile specific, unknown long term reliability & support, more stuff to break / go wrong, unknown resale ten years from now.

X02, $1305 -- Same as x01, except faster (7225 SFM)?

Does that seem fair?  If that's accurate, then I think I'm most interested in the SBP850 and the Wissota and my next question is will I hate the SH2000 holder?  And will Blade Master let me sub in a SH6000 for the difference in retail cost between the two?

I also see ads at the top of MSH all the time for the X-01 for $699, but I don't see that price anywhere on Blackstone's site... Old ad?

Mark

I saw the X-01 at $699 over the blackfriday weekend, but it has since gone back up to $979 or whatever the current price is now.

[Vet88 674]

On 14/12/2016 at 11:25 AM, marka said:

Sparx, $899 -- Essentially no "training time", awesome dust control, "runs by itself", $50 grinding rings wear out every 40 sharpenings and are ROH/FBV profile specific, unknown long term reliability & support, more stuff to break / go wrong, unknown resale ten years from now.

As Optimus said, are you willing to put in the time? Just because you have a sharpener doesn't mean you can sharpen skates, and to learn to do a decent job you need to spend a lot of time at it, consistently work at it (weekend fiddling just won't cut it) and ideally have someone to teach you. I'm learning on an Incredible Edger ($4.5k with options) and am under the guidance of a masterclass sharpener but regardless of the tool and the teacher, I just don't have the time to really improve as I can't sharpen every day. Personally if someone asked me this question a year ago I'd have said go for the X-01, knowing now what I have learnt and what I would be using it for (small usage, home sharpenings, almost zero learning time, consistent results) then I'd pick the Sparx every time. 

[jimmy 194]

On 12/13/2016 at 5:25 PM, marka said:

Howdy,

In looking at these, am I right in seeing that the SBP850, X-01, and Wissota 911 packages are all about the same price?  These are the pros/cons I'm seeing, at least so far...
 

and just because:

Sparx, $899 -- Essentially no "training time", awesome dust control, "runs by itself", $50 grinding rings wear out every 40 sharpenings and are ROH/FBV profile specific, unknown long term reliability & support, more stuff to break / go wrong, unknown resale ten years from now.

Does that seem fair?  If that's accurate, then I think I'm most interested in the SBP850 and the Wissota and my next question is will I hate the SH2000 holder?  And will Blade Master let me sub in a SH6000 for the difference in retail cost between the two?

I also see ads at the top of MSH all the time for the X-01 for $699, but I don't see that price anywhere on Blackstone's site... Old ad?

Mark

If you want to do FBV, the Sparx does NOT do that, it does the BFD which is a poor substitute.  The Sparx wheels are going to wear out fast so if you're trying to save money that's not a good choice.  For automatic sharpeners if you are so inclined, the ProSharp Skatepal is your better option.  It is what Sparx tried to copy but it's wheels last hundreds of sharpenings and the company has been making machines for decades.  Still, these automatic machines operate in very dirty conditions and circuit boards and switches and sensors can fail. You're prob better off with a Wissota and real FBV adapter.  You can turn a Wissota on and come back in 5 yrs and it will still be running.

[Arch 0]

10 minutes ago, jimmy said:

If you want to do FBV, the Sparx does NOT do that, it does the BFD which is a poor substitute.  The Sparx wheels are going to wear out fast so if you're trying to save money that's not a good choice.  For automatic sharpeners if you are so inclined, the ProSharp Skatepal is your better option.  It is what Sparx tried to copy but it's wheels last hundreds of sharpenings and the company has been making machines for decades.  Still, these automatic machines operate in very dirty conditions and circuit boards and switches and sensors can fail. You're prob better off with a Wissota and real FBV adapter.  You can turn a Wissota on and come back in 5 yrs and it will still be running.

I've been using FBV for several months and got my sparx machine with their BFD/FBV grinding ring. It feels the exact same as FBV - i wouldn't come close to calling it a poor substitute. Also the sparx wheels equal out to $1.25 per sharpen - if you sharpen some of your friends and families skates along with your own and they toss you a few bucks for your time, the grinding rings definitely are not a big money drain.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

6 hours ago, Vet88 said:

As Optimus said, are you willing to put in the time? Just because you have a sharpener doesn't mean you can sharpen skates, and to learn to do a decent job you need to spend a lot of time at it, consistently work at it (weekend fiddling just won't cut it) and ideally have someone to teach you. I'm learning on an Incredible Edger ($4.5k with options) and am under the guidance of a masterclass sharpener but regardless of the tool and the teacher, I just don't have the time to really improve as I can't sharpen every day. Personally if someone asked me this question a year ago I'd have said go for the X-01, knowing now what I have learnt and what I would be using it for (small usage, home sharpenings, almost zero learning time, consistent results) then I'd pick the Sparx every time. 

I'm willing to spend time learning how to use the machine, yes.  I'm a "tool guy" and have hobby experience with manual machining.  Skate sharpening doesn't seem to be a huge step.

What are the advantages of the X-01?  That doesn't seem like an obvious choice to me at all.

I'm more leaning toward the SPB850, if I can get it with the SH6000 holder.  I like the looks of the Wissota table better though and I'm interested in the stand along dresser that Wissota sells (not sure if it'll work with the SPB850?).

Re: the Sparx, I for sure like the "runs by itself and provides consistent results", but I just don't have any confidence at all that it'll still be working and the company (and the consumable grinding rings) will be around ten years from now.

Mark

[colins 246]

8 hours ago, jimmy said:

If you want to do FBV, the Sparx does NOT do that, it does the BFD which is a poor substitute.  The Sparx wheels are going to wear out fast so if you're trying to save money that's not a good choice.  For automatic sharpeners if you are so inclined, the ProSharp Skatepal is your better option.  It is what Sparx tried to copy but it's wheels last hundreds of sharpenings and the company has been making machines for decades.  Still, these automatic machines operate in very dirty conditions and circuit boards and switches and sensors can fail. You're prob better off with a Wissota and real FBV adapter.  You can turn a Wissota on and come back in 5 yrs and it will still be running.

The Prosharp Home is about $900 more than the Sparx, so that's 18 Sparx rings (720 pairs of skates sharpened with 4 pass default) to make a fair comparison. My Sparx hasn't gotten dirty operating in my rec room. If you've seen the video of Russ Layton (Sparx CEO) describing the evolution of the Sparx design, it doesn't sound like they copied the ProSharp or anyone else for that matter.

I would like to see a head to head comparison of the Prosharp Home vs. a Sparx, if anyone is aware of a writeup or video that's been done?

 

colins

 

 

[krisdrum 233]

3 hours ago, colins said:

The Prosharp Home is about $800 than the Sparx, so that's 18 Sparx rings (720 pairs of skates sharpened with 4 pass default) to make a fair comparison. My Sparx hasn't gotten dirty operating in my rec room. If you've seen the video of Russ Layton (Sparx CEO) describing the evolution of the Sparx design, it doesn't sound like they copied the ProSharp or anyone else for that matter.

I would like to see a head to head comparison of the Prosharp Home vs. a Sparx, if anyone is aware of a writeup or video that's been done?

 

colins

 

 

Believe HockeyTutorials on YouTube are working on a head to head. They already have a few videos on the ProSharp and believe they just got a Sparx.

[beanhead 22]

7 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

I'm willing to spend time learning how to use the machine, yes.  I'm a "tool guy" and have hobby experience with manual machining.  Skate sharpening doesn't seem to be a huge step.

What are the advantages of the X-01?  That doesn't seem like an obvious choice to me at all.

I'm more leaning toward the SPB850, if I can get it with the SH6000 holder.  I like the looks of the Wissota table better though and I'm interested in the stand along dresser that Wissota sells (not sure if it'll work with the SPB850?).

Re: the Sparx, I for sure like the "runs by itself and provides consistent results", but I just don't have any confidence at all that it'll still be working and the company (and the consumable grinding rings) will be around ten years from now.

Mark

I am also looking for a sharpener of my own. I am also a mechanically inclined tool guy.

I think most mechanically inclined people can pick up sharpening in very little time. I have about 6-7 hours worth of sharpening experience. I was able to practice on several pairs of rental skates that looked like someone had ran a road marathon in. It took very little time to figure out the best amount of pressure and speed to produce a good edge. I bought an edge checker on ebay to verify that I was keeping even edges. I would say after about 5 pairs of skates, my results exceeded those of my local area sharpeners who have been sharpening for years.

Keeping even edges seems to be the hardest part of skate sharpening. None of my local shops can seem to do it, or they just don't care to try. I have seen some unbelievably uneven edges come from shops who proclaim to be expert sharpeners. The only professional sharpener in my area that I can trust to get even edges is a 45 minute drive one way. It really is not that hard to do if you understand how to adjust the holder correctly. I think it would be intuitive for someone with machining experience. You could even use a dial indicator to help level the holder if you have one. The holder I have used is basically an older version of the Blademaster SH2000.

I am looking at the SPB850 and the Wissota. I am leaning toward the SPB850 because the wheel spins clockwise, and that is what I am used to. It is also cheaper than the Wissota, which adds $78 sales tax to the sharpener even though I don't live in Minnesota? I do however think the Wissota holder would take less practice to produce even edges for someone who never used a cam adjusting holder. I briefly considered all the sharpeners listed above, but the SPB850 and Wissota seem to be the most practical. I like the fact that I can change the ROH at anytime, without ordering special dressers or grinder wheels. They should also be very durable in theory since they are basically just an electric motor mounted on a table. If anything does break, it would be easy to repair.

 

[colins 246]

16 hours ago, beanhead said:

I am also looking for a sharpener of my own. I am also a mechanically inclined tool guy.

I think most mechanically inclined people can pick up sharpening in very little time. I have about 6-7 hours worth of sharpening experience. I was able to practice on several pairs of rental skates that looked like someone had ran a road marathon in. It took very little time to figure out the best amount of pressure and speed to produce a good edge. I bought an edge checker on ebay to verify that I was keeping even edges. I would say after about 5 pairs of skates, my results exceeded those of my local area sharpeners who have been sharpening for years.

 

One of the best overviews of the "big picture" of getting into skate sharpening I've read is here: http://www.thehandofgord.ca/skates-sharpening/wannabee

When comparing Sparx or ProSharp Home vs. traditional (Wissota, Blackstone, Blademaster, etc) most seem to focus on operating cost. Sparx is $899 USD to start, and about $1.25 USD per pair to operate (ring for $49 USD lasts for 40 pairs). Prosharp Home seems to be availble right now for a $1499 USD (Christmas special) and about $0.20 USD per pair to operate (wheel for $99USD lasts for 500 pairs). Traditional machines typically operate at pennies a pair.

But not to be underestimated is the amount of mess a traditional setup will make. You need to plan for this - setting up in a garage type space and installing a dust collection system is pretty much mandatory if going this route. Nobody should be breathing in swarf, and if you don't collect the dust via some type of system (say you wear a mask and ignore the dust) it will cover your garage door, floor, end up on top of whatever you have in your rafters, etc. It will be everywhere. This is a significant advantage to the Sparx or Prosharp option for most home based sharpeners who don't plan on trying to achieve huge volumes of sharpenings.

The biggest thing I'd like to see next from Sparx would be to reduce the cost of their rings, or increase the lifespan of the rings, to bring the operating costs more in line with the ProSharp Home.

Having a device like the Sparx in your house really does change your approach to maintaining your own edges - you don't wait until your edges are really 'damaged' and in desperate need of repair. Instead I'm checking after pretty much every skate. It's simple when the machine is in the rec room and I can check/correct the edges as my boys are packing their gear for practice/game. So I'm often just touching up mine and my sons' skates with a single pass or two on the Sparx to bring back that mirror finish. We're always skating on perfect edges now, and my rings are lasting for more than 40 'sharpenings' because I'm rarely using the 4 passes at a time.

colins

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Yeah, being a "tool guy" I have a heated workshop, so the dust and a place to setup a sharpener isn't as big a problem as if I lived in an apartment or something.  I'll still want to control the dust some (and I really don't want grinding dust ending up on my machining tools), but its not really any different than the sand blast cabinet or regular pedestal grinder I already have.

Mark

[IPv6Freely 2093]

5 hours ago, colins said:

When comparing Sparx or ProSharp Home vs. traditional (Wissota, Blackstone, Blademaster, etc) most seem to focus on operating cost. Sparx is $899 USD to start, and about $1.25 USD per pair to operate (ring for $49 USD lasts for 40 pairs). Prosharp Home seems to be availble right now for a $1499 USD (Christmas special) and about $0.20 USD per pair to operate (wheel for $99USD lasts for 500 pairs). Traditional machines typically operate at pennies a pair.

Also certainly worth mentioning is that your time is worth something. Thats why you'll often see posts by me on this forum when people post DIY versions of products on the market saying it's not expensive enough to bother with DIY. At-home skate sharpening is no different in that regard. 

[GunRunner 28]

I have an X-01 and love it.  It did take some time to dial in because the wheel arbor was lower than it should be and the middle of the spinner was not dressing the middle of the stone.  Blackstone says there is some tolerance that is allowable but I am anal and I wanted it to be as close to good as I could get it.  Luckily my machinist background allowed me to do this and I wouldn't recommend just anyone trying to adjust the arbor unless they researched it and was comfortable doing so.  With that being said, I have my sharpener in my basement and I have a dust collection hood that I got from Woodcraft mounted to the cabinet that my X-01 is mounted to.  I also plumbed the sharpener with PVC pipe and I have it hooked up to my shop vac for dust collection.  It is a really easy and straight forward setup and anyone can do this.  I personally love the FBV so for the sake of being cost effective, Blackstone is my only option.  I also love the fact that it is light and easily managed and I put it in a plastic tote and take it with me on the road to either my son's games or my beer league tournaments.  Below is a photo of my setup.

[beanhead 22]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:45 AM, colins said:

But not to be underestimated is the amount of mess a traditional setup will make. You need to plan for this - setting up in a garage type space and installing a dust collection system is pretty much mandatory if going this route. Nobody should be breathing in swarf, and if you don't collect the dust via some type of system (say you wear a mask and ignore the dust) it will cover your garage door, floor, end up on top of whatever you have in your rafters, etc. It will be everywhere. This is a significant advantage to the Sparx or Prosharp option for most home based sharpeners who don't plan on trying to achieve huge volumes of sharpenings.

That is a very good point. I had planned to do the actual sharpening in my driveway (if i get a sharpener). I would either weld up a table for it or use the tailgate of my pickup truck. If I was doing it in my garage on a frequent basis I would certainly want a dust collections system. Even with a dust collection system a cheap N95 dust mask is not a bad idea.

[beanhead 22]

21 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Also certainly worth mentioning is that your time is worth something. Thats why you'll often see posts by me on this forum when people post DIY versions of products on the market saying it's not expensive enough to bother with DIY. At-home skate sharpening is no different in that regard. 

Yep. The only sharpener that I have found that can do a good job is 45 minutes away. That is 1.5 hours of driving, and it usually takes me 30 minutes at the rink until I can leave. (I am usually not the only there waiting for a sharpening)

The cost of a sharpening is $7, the round trip cost of gas is $10.45. It cost me $17.45 and 2 hours of time to get a good sharpening. I won't even bother using the closer shop. I would rather have dull blades than have them screw it up.

[Kgbeast 195]

22 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Also certainly worth mentioning is that your time is worth something. Thats why you'll often see posts by me on this forum when people post DIY versions of products on the market saying it's not expensive enough to bother with DIY. At-home skate sharpening is no different in that regard. 

This is fair unless one likes to spend his time tinkering with this kind of crap. Afterall, this is what we need "the time" for... to  enjoy it doing the things that bring us some sort of joy and keep us sane(ish).