Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

[marka 526]

Howdy,

1 hour ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I use some special sauce after I sharpen, and a gummi stone to clean the hollow after I deburr skates on the Sparx. It looks like a mirror. If you just take the skates of the Sparx machine, lightly deburr it, it will not feel nearly as sharp as using a manual or semi-automated machine. Once blade sharpening is complete and the steel is still slightly warm, I then coat the blade completely in another product. Let is stand for approx 2 minutes before wiping the remainder off with a towel/cloth. The finish and glide is amazing. 

Are you willing to share more details on this?  Particularly with exact products and procedures you're using?

I think I've mentioned in this thread before that I use a Wissota Speed Skate after a Sparx sharpening, but I wouldn't describe the resulting finish as a true "mirror", as there are still subtle longitudinal lines.

Mark

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Are you willing to share more details on this?  Particularly with exact products and procedures you're using?

I think I've mentioned in this thread before that I use a Wissota Speed Skate after a Sparx sharpening, but I wouldn't describe the resulting finish as a true "mirror", as there are still subtle longitudinal lines.

Mark

Its something we co-developed but I can send you a sample to test. We aren't currently selling it to retail but have a few WHL, AHL and NHL players testing it. I have not used the Wissota Speed Skate, but assume its some type of very fine gummi stone inside of the holder which removes the ridges and such without compromising the hollows edges. 

[strosedefence34 175]

16 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I sharpen a ton of skates and am neurotic and OCD when it comes to the process of sharpening. A 5/8 on a BladeMaster, ProSharp, or BlackStone is the same as a Sparx. Where there might be a small feeling of difference is not taking off the burr entirely from the Sparx sharpening or getting the same level of finish on the blade. I use some special sauce after I sharpen, and a gummi stone to clean the hollow after I deburr skates on the Sparx. It looks like a mirror. If you just take the skates of the Sparx machine, lightly deburr it, it will not feel nearly as sharp as using a manual or semi-automated machine. Once blade sharpening is complete and the steel is still slightly warm, I then coat the blade completely in another product. Let is stand for approx 2 minutes before wiping the remainder off with a towel/cloth. The finish and glide is amazing. 

I am glad you found a solution.  That is just entirely too much work for me.  For now while I work at the shop I will stick to the BladeMaster.  When I quit I am probably going to buy the BlackStone X whatever for home use because I prefer that to a Sparx.  I do think the Sparx is a great product and it has its place in the hockey community it is just not for me based on my tests.  Plus I already know how to sharpen with a manual sharpener.

[stick9 891]

20 hours ago, darkhors said:

Most people feel "floaty" when trying FBV or Fire, you should. You're sitting on top of the ice instead of digging in. Mark, since you're using Fire already, I wouldn't be worried about trying the 3/4 Fire. The biggest thing is what kind of ice you're skating on. Is the ice you play on consistent? Is it hard, soft? The softer the ice, the shallower you can go, but I skate on medium to hard ice and have never had an issue holding an edge on the 5/8 Fire. I don't have a 3/4 Fire yet to try, but I would give it go if I had it.

I don't think it was that. I've skated on various FBV's, never an issue. I think the 3/4 Fire just wasn't deep enough for me. Which is fine seeing how most agree that Fire rings tend to feel shallower than their equivalent ROH.

[althoma1 574]

I agree that the 3/4 Fire feels a little more "floaty" than the 90/50 FBV I usually use. I actually liked that as I prefer a shallow hollow with just enough bite, but I can definitely see it being too shallow for lighter skaters or those who prefer more bite.

Edited October 22, 2019 by althoma1

[VegasHockey 1280]

16 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

I agree that the 3/4 Fire feels a little more "floaty" than the 90/50 FBV I usually use. I actually liked that as I prefer a shallow hollow with just enough bite, but I can definitely see it being too shallow for lighter skaters or those who prefer more bite.

My nephew is 10 years old and skates on a 3/4 FIRE ring without any issues so I dont think it has to do with weight specifically. Many of the players on his team also skate on 3/4" ROH and flatter as well.

I think it has a lot to do with the profile of the blade and what hollow you are accustomed to. Many kids now learn to skate on an 11/12/13' or longer profile and a much more shallow ROH which allowed them to develop advanced edge control at a very young age before moving them to a more aggressive combination radius and as such, as they advanced they went with an even more flat ROH. 

On the other hand, all of the adults prefer 1/2-5/8" because they like the control it provides. They dislike that a flat hollow doesnt let them feel like they are entirely in control. 

Factually, the edges are still there, regardless of depth, it just requires you to force the engagement of the edges to bite into the ice. If you aren't accustomed to this and don't allow time to adjust it can give the feeling of being "out of control." 

I am not saying one is better than another, we all skate differently, have different body mechanics, different body types, skill levels, and tons of other variables. I think people should use what's best for them. However, the only way to progress and get more speed with less effort is to be lighter, more powerful, alter your profile, and go with a flatter hollow. You cannot cheat science and sports like hockey have the same limitations as drag racing, for example. 

https://www.pcs.cnu.edu/~David.Gore/Capstone/files/MercerD.pdf

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/science/23SharpW.html

https://blogs.sparxhockey.com/hollow-shape-and-depth

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/50eb/c950bb2c53e7c8b05b8491bfc2fa15cc4bf6.pdf

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

5 hours ago, strosedefence34 said:

I am glad you found a solution.  That is just entirely too much work for me.  For now while I work at the shop I will stick to the BladeMaster.  When I quit I am probably going to buy the BlackStone X whatever for home use because I prefer that to a Sparx.  I do think the Sparx is a great product and it has its place in the hockey community it is just not for me based on my tests.  Plus I already know how to sharpen with a manual sharpener.

I still find that I produce better sharpens with my Blackstone, but I'm almost fully converted to my Sparx now for just the sheer convenience factor (sharpening multiple skates in the house).

Edited October 22, 2019 by shoot_the_goalie

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

I still find that I produce better sharpens with my Blackstone, but I'm almost fully converted to my Sparx now for just the sheer convenience factor (sharpening multiple skates in the house).

I can appreciate that a commercial sharpener like BladeMaster, Blackstone, and ProSharp deliver a better overall finish. We have all of those + SSM units at our stores. But if you did blind testing I bet many individuals would never be able to notice the difference. 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

2 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I can appreciate that a commercial sharpener like BladeMaster, Blackstone, and ProSharp deliver a better overall finish. We have all of those + SSM units at our stores. But if you did blind testing I bet many individuals would never be able to notice the difference. 

Well, mine is a X01, but regardless, I agree with you.  Most people would never be able to tell the quality difference from which machine you sharpen (if sharpens are done properly).  And for me, the speed, ease, & convenience of the Sparx outweighs the negligible improved sharpening quality on the Blackstone.

[talkintothemike 4]

I apologize if I have missed this somewhere...I tried a Sparx for the first time.  I used a 1/2" Fire ring and I had the toe pointing to the right.  After sharpening both skates, I checked the edges using both a Sparx and a Pro Sharp.  On both edge checkers I am high on the inside of the left skate, and high on the outside edge of the right skate.

How do I adjust the Sparx to correct this?  Is it by using the Alignment adjustment knob?  Which way would I need to adjust even though it still looks aligned to me?

 

Thanks.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Yep alignment is off. 

[stick9 891]

5 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Yep alignment is off. 

Aye, too far to the front if I'm picturing the set up correctly.

[bflohcky 0]

Curious as to how long some of you have had your Sparx machine as how they have held up to this point. Thanks. I find myself sharpening my 6 year olds skates far more often than I ever sharpened my own.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

3 hours ago, bflohcky said:

Curious as to how long some of you have had your Sparx machine as how they have held up to this point. Thanks. I find myself sharpening my 6 year olds skates far more often than I ever sharpened my own.

Zero problems here, and I was on the original kickstarter so I’ve had it since the beginning.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

26 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

If you have to do this, it means your steel is bent and/or the edges are already uneven. All things being equal, using the optical alignment tool will center the components to the point you will get level edges. 

Adjusting the alignment outside of the recommend area (found in the manual) is done to compensate for going into the sharpening with already uneven edges and/or malformed runner/holder setup. 

 

All things are not equal.  The grinding rings change and I've proven to myself that the center of my current 5/8" ROH ring is about four clicks off the center of my current 5/8" Fire ring.

I also think that if you want actual even edges you need an edge checker.  The difference you see between a few clicks on the adjuster is extremely minor in the optical tool... Enough so that you could easily be off.  The edge checker makes it clear.  You can make the argument that the edges may not be off enough to be noticeable and I won't disagree, but in my experience if you want even edges on an edge checker, you will need to make adjustments you can't see via the optical tool.

YMMV.

Mark

Edited October 30, 2019 by marka

[Leif 161]

46 minutes ago, marka said:

Howdy,

All things are not equal.  The grinding rings change and I've proven to myself that the center of my current 5/8" ROH ring is about four clicks off the center of my current 5/8" Fire ring.

I also think that if you want actual even edges you need an edge checker.  The difference you see between a few clicks on the adjuster is extremely minor in the optical tool... Enough so that you could easily be off.  The edge checker makes it clear.  You can make the argument that the edges may not be off enough to be noticeable and I won't disagree, but in my experience if you want even edges on an edge checker, you will need to make adjustments you can't see via the optical tool.

YMMV.

Mark

I have no idea how common your experience is. I have 7/16”, 1/2” and 5/8” rings. I can swap between them and get perfect edges every time. I have an edge checker. I do agree an edge checker is desirable, I got to about two clicks away from perfect using the optical tool on its own. It is probably good enough but I like perfect. 

However, not all edge checkers are perfect, my ProSharp BAT gauge was out by a few thou. My cheapo one is dead on.

[Leif 161]

I compared my ProSharp and ebay BAT gauges against Sparx and BladeMaster ones at my LHS. Three out of four agreed with each other. Yes, check it when you get it. Be aware that the aluminium plate will wear from contact with the skate blade. My ebay gauge has a steel contact plate, it’s altogether better albeit rough looking. 

I returned my ProSharp gauge, the US company head said it was fine. Hi ho. I never did get a refund, one reason I bought a Sparx machine rather than a ProSharp, as I did not trust them. The ProSharp hollow gauge is expensive and a piece of cheap xxxx. 

[Leif 161]

The bare aluminium one with the dots on a sticker, made in Canada. It looks pants but it works! 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Over500-Sold-NHL-Edge-Checker-check-level-hockey-skate-sharpening-tool-Bauer-CCM/333302165389?hash=item4d9a5b6f8d:g:P2AAAMXQEgpTD9AK

It was quite a bit cheaper when I bought one. I suspect your ProSharp one will be fine. 

[mickz 107]

1 hour ago, Leif said:

The bare aluminium one with the dots on a sticker, made in Canada. It looks pants but it works! 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Over500-Sold-NHL-Edge-Checker-check-level-hockey-skate-sharpening-tool-Bauer-CCM/333302165389?hash=item4d9a5b6f8d:g:P2AAAMXQEgpTD9AK

It was quite a bit cheaper when I bought one. I suspect your ProSharp one will be fine. 

At that price I'd rather have the Blademaster one.  https://blademaster.com/web/en/gauging-accessories/249-br100.html

$105CAD is about $80US.

[rh71el2 3]

19 hours ago, bflohcky said:

Curious as to how long some of you have had your Sparx machine as how they have held up to this point. Thanks. I find myself sharpening my 6 year olds skates far more often than I ever sharpened my own.

The type of steel matters a ton how often they get nicked (sp?) up.   6 year olds are likely on the "stainless steel" rather than even the LS1.  Big difference when we finally graduated to LS steel.  And big difference between LS1 and my LS4 for holding a sharpen.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

On 10/17/2019 at 10:53 AM, marka said:

I use a 5/8 Fire now and have no issues with grip / finding my edges or anything like that.  So I was thinking of trying out the 3/4 Fire.

I realize this is all mostly personal preference, just wanting to see if folks thought there were a large change between the two.  I haven't ever skated on either 3/4 or 1" ROH.

So, got a 3/4 Fire and tried it out last night.  My impressions are coming from long-ish time use of 5/8 Fire...

I didn't find it a big change at all.  In fact, it was close enough to the 5/8" Fire that I'm not sure I'd be able to tell them apart in a blind test.  Other factors like ice hardness, how recently they were sharpened, etc. etc. I think would have a bigger impact on the feel.

Strangely enough, if anything I thought I could feel my edges more with the 3/4 Fire than with the 5/8 Fire.  I'm assuming that this is just because I was paying more attention to that, since I'd made a radius change and I use the CXN holder so back to back tests are a bit harder to do than with the quick change holders.

We'll see how it goes over the next few hours of ice time, but at least so far I'm liking the 3/4 Fire fine.

I should note that I'm an old-ish guy that just started playing 4 years ago.  So maybe my skating just isn't good enough to pickup the differences and someone else would find them more significant!

Mark

Edited November 2, 2019 by marka

[Leif 161]

10 hours ago, marka said:

We'll see how it goes over the next few hours of ice time, but at least so far I'm liking the 3/4 Fire fine.

I should note that I'm an old-ish guy that just started playing 4 years ago.  So maybe my skating just isn't good enough to pickup the differences and someone else would find them more significant!

Mark

Interesting post. I think that in general better skaters can control shallower hollows as they have better edge control. That certainly reflects my experience, with my ability improving thanks to lessons. How did you find the 5/8” Fire compared to the normal 5/8”? 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

11 hours ago, Leif said:

Interesting post. I think that in general better skaters can control shallower hollows as they have better edge control. That certainly reflects my experience, with my ability improving thanks to lessons. How did you find the 5/8” Fire compared to the normal 5/8”? 

Its been quite a long time since I moved from 5/8 to 5/8 Fire... My recollection is that I felt more "stuck to the ice" in a straight linewith the 5/8 ROH cut, but its been so long I wouldn't put much weight into that impression.

Mark

[bflohcky 0]

So if you had the funds to pick up a Sparx or Wissota 911, which do you go with and why?

[strosedefence34 175]

5 minutes ago, bflohcky said:

So if you had the funds to pick up a Sparx or Wissota 911, which do you go with and why?

While they are both skate sharperners they are two different animals.  It really depends on if you know how to use a manual sharpener or if you have someone willing to teach you how to use one vs would you rather just get the thing in the mail do a quick setup and be up and running within an hour or so?  Me personally I know how to use a manual sharpener so I'd probably go for the Wissota but that's just me.