Very upset with hockey monkey

[Playmakersedge 58]

Wow am I angered. I am 50 and I have spine damage from a life lived after playing professional hockey @age 16&17. (Knee injury made my opportunity to go up into the league evaporate)I played in reidell 111 with perfecta blades 11EE, loved them . These skates went in mind casket(98). I bought Bauer 3000 11EE , a great skate  however I am a huge guy 6'8" 285 pounds and in the first part of these skates life I used them often barefoot and hard (high end rec hockey).   So now I'm 50 with a spine full of titanium and can't feel 2/3 of my feet but I enjoy teaching the kids with aspirations of playing at a higher level so I do that and sharpen skates. I can't fly like I did but I can skate. The bauers rotted out and are useless now. Sow I don't have a lot of money I get on line and see all these skates and I got $150 to spend.  I chat and say I'm using the above Bauer what ever that would be inn the ccm 3052 I want that . 11.5EE I am told ,that's what I order . The box says 11.5EE the skate says 11.5E and made in china  . I contact HM they tell me they were mis marked at the factory they are in fact the correct 11.5EE.(there is no documents in the box)This before even fully lacing them. So lace them,sharpen them, do the oven thing that i found out how to do via ccm web site and put them on and I'm seeing they are big and hope the composite shrinks or stretches by heating.  I go to public skating. My foot is moving around in the boot.  Come home email the company and say these skates are huge they have to be miss marked in more then one way.  No no they are 11.5, I then say ok send me next size smaller and I'll send these back. I don't want to let the kids down, plus lose what little money some parents can afford. I was told they can't do that they were sharpened baked and skated in . I think of the kids and the enjoyment I get and realize I got no skates that are functional.  I order 11EE same skate .They arrive the box says 11EE the skate says 11E .(fyi at this time there wasn't the warning on the site about the sizing defect like they have now)  So I lace them up sharpen, bake put them on . These are marginally smaller then the other skates but are still to big .  Now I got $296 spent of money that isn't expandable . The second pair I go skate on . I can move on the ice with , but can't do what I did with the bauers.  As I said the to the rep on chat my bauers have no extra room barefoot my toes are at the toe cap and with a bend . The part of my feet I can feel are my heals . So I email the company.  Tell them these skates are too big . Will you please send me 10.50EE and I will send both pair back . I have tried several times called. I heard  no. I tried telling them the Sab story of 7 back surgeries, having congestive heart failure and just trying to hand some knowledge down and enjoy life before I'm not here anymore.  Spoke to deaf ears  .  So I don't have skates I can use and spent almost  $300 to do it .       And I didn't expect top shelf skates @$150  The first 150 was what I could part with. The second 150 hurt . Having no skates that work is killing me .

 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

So what you’re saying is that you didn’t get properly fitted and are now upset that you’re in the wrong size? 

[althoma1 574]

They probably gave you the ccm size vs modern Bauers. Ideally you should have tried them on and figured out they were too big before baking and sharpening them. Your best bet now is to try to sell the skates on ebay or elsewhere and then get properly fit in a store before buying new ones.

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

Most every retailer on earth will tell you that baked and sharpened skates are not returnable. Sizing today won’t dorectly correlate to older Riedell and Bauer generations. Unfortunately with online purchases, therein lies the rub. 

 

I would caution you that a guy your size size will likely ruin any $150 skate in very short order. 

[icewalker_bg 126]

A guy half his weight would ruin a 150$ skate in no time if he used to play pro hockey and is a good skater. 

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

It's an expensive lesson but a lesson worth learning from. As mentioned before, selling your skates on eBay, Sideline Swap, etc. will get you SOME money back. Go to a LHS and get fitted. What I would do then is get the cheapest skates there and then look for something of better quality online. That way, you know your size and can find a better deal that can mitigate your start-up costs. As @Buzz_LightBeer pointed out, I think you'd run through the entry-level skates quickly and would probably spend just as much on one pair of mid-level skates as you would on a couple cheaper pairs. It stinks but we all find/have found ourselves in similar positions. HockeyMonkey is well established and I've had nothing good things to say about them. 

[Davideo 99]

Unless you you know for certain exactly what size and model fits you, I would strongly recommend going to a hockey shop in person. I tried ordering through the Internet after not buying skates in about 12 years, but eventually I had to bite the bullet and drive 4 hours to the nearest hockey shop to try on a few different models and sizes.

[Leif 161]

I had skates fitted at a UK rink shop and it took me a couple of months to realise they were too big, which might have been why I kept falling over including suffering a non serious head wound. Now I only trust shops with a good reputation among the skaters I know. Sorry to hear your story but visiting a good shop is the only way to fit skates unless buying like for like. 

[shenny88 6]

I do feel bad for your experience, and hopefully you can recoup some money by reselling them on ebay or similar. But to be honest, I would've been incredibly shocked if any shop agreed to take the skates back for a full refund after baking, sharpening, and skating in them. 

You really really really need to try these things on before buying. And if you have to buy first, then at least get a second or third opinion on the fit before baking and sharpening. 

Still, a crappy situation nonetheless. 

[Vet88 674]

It's a shame you you didn't ask here first. There is a lot of good info and knowledge on this site with people always willing to help. Besides the general advice of getting fitted or how to check the sizing on your feet when you receive the skates (so you don't bake and sharpen if they are too big), I suspect you would have also got told you needed 10.5 in those skates, there is a thread where the ccm rep discusses ccm sizing versus bauer. As everyone else has expressed, I hope you can recover most of your money with a resell.

[Stewie 721]

gotta side with HM here. You cant be in the business of taking back skates you cant sell as new every time someone buys an improperly fitting skate, especially with such low margins to begin with. no company is going to stay in business long spending 300 to make a 150$ sale. You should be able to tell if the skate is the correct size before baking it.  

[Playmakersedge 58]

Thank you all .  I truly thought I supplied all the information needed to put the right size CCM on my feet.size of the bauers and year.  

Also realise my spine condition , I am supposed to be in a chair.  I willed my legs so I could get on the ice again  .  Gravity is my enemy over 30 minutes in a car ,things can get messy . Here there is a big box store . Back in my day we did have a lhs ,and my skates all had to be ordered. From age 14 up my feet have been the same size. It was the professional that said this brand won't work,this brand will, of course being immersed in the game that was info I mostly knew .  So I thought being a ,e commerce society I was speaking to the same kind of pro . 

      If I had the capitol I would open a facility that fit people correctly selling skates ,sticks ,have a training for strength and speed,a shooting area, and a synthetic surface for power skating and testing a skate.  

        Back when custom radius first came that used to be called a rocker .A real skate and skating expert viewed your skating, stride and shaped your blade to suit you the best .true technicians  .  

I thought I was getting info from a knowledgeable person.        As I said I haven't bought a skate off the shelf since early teens. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

13 minutes ago, Stewie said:

gotta side with HM here. You cant be in the business of taking back skates you cant sell as new every time someone buys an improperly fitting skate, especially with such low margins to begin with. no company is going to stay in business long spending 300 to make a 150$ sale. You should be able to tell if the skate is the correct size before baking it.  

 Baking is part of the fitting.  The baking process is described as taking up empty space. There are plastics that shrink or stretch with heat . .you are right they would probably loose money this time.  But they would have procured a return customer and a HM advocate.  A guy that would say to the lady at the rink asking me about where to go: go to HM they are great .  In business you win a lot by losing a little sometimes . Each situation and circumstance are different.    They are tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime . They have already lost more then they would by satisfy a customer. 

For these skates were intended to get me by until tax time.  Then I was going to get the best CCM Elite skate for me ,helmet, gloves, and couple sticks .   

[althoma1 574]

Baking can help the skate wrap better and break in better, but will never make a skate that is too long shorter. A skate that's a bit too tight with minor pressure points can be perfect after baking. A skate that's too long before baking is simply the wrong size.

The employee was doing their best to help with the sizing, but might not have been born when the Bauer 3000 skates were out. They likely just heard Bauer and based their advice on current Bauer sizing which is different than legacy sizing. That's unfortunate, but if you had received the skates, put them on unlace and pushed your feet all the way forward and then put a pen behind your heel, you would've known they were too long before baking them and getting them sharpened. You would've been able to exchange them for a smaller size without issue at that point.

The situation sucks and I hope you're able to resell the skates and get some of your money back and put them toward skates that fit properly. At your size you'll probably want skates that were originally $600 or more, but you can consider older clearance models or barely used models to try to keep costs reasonable. You can also post on the board regarding fit advice before making a purchase and people will try to help.

[Playmakersedge 58]

You know the worst part is  ,I get every reason why they wouldn't  appease me .  Certainly 50% fault my way . I'm saying do something!! Cost me out on the 3rd pair. Verses a polite sucks to be you .   I bought CCM because my favorite pair of skates i ever had was 1979/80 super tacks  they laced up and wrapped the foot ,the knee over the toe flex was on the money . And they were not like casts .The support was in the architecture.  Then they came out with another skate ultra tacks with there own blade holder, they changed the boot.  

My custom reidell skates were painfully stiff but after break in they flexed .  The 3000 Bauer I thought was stiff but the architecture was boxy and never got that crease on the outside of the ankle.... someone said the CCM rep is on this site ?  

[IPv6Freely 2093]

25 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

You know the worst part is  ,I get every reason why they wouldn't  appease me .  Certainly 50% fault my way . I'm saying do something!! Cost me out on the 3rd pair. Verses a polite sucks to be you . 

I'm confused. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that even though you realize it's your fault they should give you free skates? Or what?

[Playmakersedge 58]

I'm saying it's a 50% fault for each party . I assumed the guy working for them knew how to best advise me .      Me: I am in this skate now purchased this year, the blade holders are x long . What size do I need in this skate  .      That's what they were given.  I assumed given that with knowledge or resources he could advise me .

      It's there fault for not being able to take that information and use knowledge or resources to tell me the correct size in the tacks 

Putting the fault on the consumer in this situation isn't right. 

Let's say you have a corvette and you bring it to the Chevrolet dealer for an oil change.  You go sit in the waiting room ; in an hour you are told it's done . You pay and get your keys and walk up to your car and see the fiberglass is cracked.  You go back in and tell the manager;  I just had an oil change and my body is cracked now .     The manager says well did you tell the service desk to leave the doors open so this didn't happen?   Then the manager says I'm not gonna fix this car ,you only got an oil change and we probably made $10 on that . I can't afford to paint every car the lube guy cracks we would go out of business.       True you could have said hey make sure you open the doors so the body doesn't crack.  But also true you are correct to think that the Chevrolet dealer would know how to service a Chevrolet corvette......  It's reaching to put this totally on the consumer. It's reaching to put it on the consumer in any way .    

IF i didn't ask the representative what size do I need ,then all on me . But I did with all the above info about existing skates .It was there responsibility to accurately answer that question  . If you don't know, say I don't know. I have to research that can I call you or email you ?  That is the action of a pro . 

Also there was no literature or how to bake, warranty card,warning, nothing in the box or on the box .   

[puckpilot 312]

3 hours ago, Stewie said:

gotta side with HM here. You cant be in the business of taking back skates you cant sell as new every time someone buys an improperly fitting skate, especially with such low margins to begin with. no company is going to stay in business long spending 300 to make a 150$ sale. You should be able to tell if the skate is the correct size before baking it.  

At least one LHS in my area will exchange skates that have been baked and sharpened AND skated on within the first 30 days as long as they're unblemished. I did it last Christmas because the skates were giving me lace bite.

I'm sort of in the middle on this. I can understand that etailers side of things, but at the same time, they should train their staff to instruct people that there are ways for a person to figure out their size at home to a decent degree of accuracy, and have them do that before locking down that sale, especially the second time. I mean HM had two shots at getting the man into a proper fitting skate, and they missed both times. If they did that, you'd think they'd try to work with the guy to come to some sort of solution/compromise instead of trying to blow him off. 

I mean how about take them back as sort of consignment and put them up on their clearance section at a discount, with the stipulation that he only gets back what they can sell them for. Yes it may be a bit of a hassle on HM part, and yes, hecould do it himself, but it's probably easier for HM to move something than a private person. I mean isn't part customer care is, going out of your way to make a customer happy?.  

 

 

[Playmakersedge 58]

Found rbz 90 10.50  do rbz run the same length as the tacks the skates are brand new $140 ? Any thoughts?  

[IPv6Freely 2093]

21 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

Found rbz 90 10.50  do rbz run the same length as the tacks the skates are brand new $140 ? Any thoughts?  

You should learn from your previous mistakes and try them on before buying them.

[Playmakersedge 58]

Dam goalies  

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Usually we’re known for being crazy so I’ll take that as a compliment.

[Playmakersedge 58]

Looking for quality information.  And is the jet speed the same.  I am gathering this is a high end skate from a few years ago. 

[althoma1 574]

33 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

Found rbz 90 10.50  do rbz run the same length as the tacks the skates are brand new $140 ? Any thoughts?  

The RBZ line fit differently - they're wider in both the heel and forefoot and are also longer. If you want to compare them to the Tacks line you'd have to specify which year as the sizing on the Tacks actually changed in 2016. No matter what Tacks line you're comparing them too though, they fit bigger. For length, someone that needs a 10.5 in the 2015 Tacks would need a 10 in RBZ. If we're talking 2016/17 Tacks in a 10.5 then they'd need a 9.5 RBZ lengthwise. The fit of the RBZ is wider and deeper than both Tacks models. So I would not buy the skates - they'll be too long and possibly too wide for you.

Optimus does offer good advice - it really is worth trying on as many skates as you can. Even if you can't drive a long distance due to health issues, you could ask to try on the skates of people you know in your area that have skates similar to the size you think you need. Getting to a store with a knowledgeable staff would of course be the ideal scenario, but I know that's not always possible for everyone. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

Looking for quality information.  And is the jet speed the same.  I am gathering this is a high end skate from a few years ago.