The endless changing of skates.....

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 minute ago, IPv6Freely said:

I’m not good enough to worry about performance and not hard enough on my skates to worry about longevity. HOWEVER I definitely do like not skating in pain. 

If I didn't spend so much time in skates weekly and also privately coach players I probably would buy more affordable skates. 

[chippa13 1844]

16 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Fit, comfort.

The vast majority of beer leaguers can get that at 50-70% of the cost of customs. Sure, there are those few out there who can't find something that works for them but outside of them the average beer leaguer can and will get 3-4-5 or more years from one, two, or even three rungs down from top of the line and get everything they want out of the skate.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

9 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

The vast majority of beer leaguers can get that at 50-70% of the cost of customs. Sure, there are those few out there who can't find something that works for them but outside of them the average beer leaguer can and will get 3-4-5 or more years from one, two, or even three rungs down from top of the line and get everything they want out of the skate.

Sure. You asked so I answered. 

[stick9 891]

2 hours ago, darkhors said:

Actually, I don't have a dog in the fight. I didn't say I was only buying True/VH, I said that I'm not buying off the shelf. I'm not saying one brand is better than the other either. I'm just saying I've made the decision (based on my research and experiences) that I'm not going to waste my money on standard fitting skates.

The runner analogy is just fine. Runners only use their shoes for 6 months because the soles and insoles wear out and need to be replaced. Using them for x amount of miles has nothing to do with fit. I was a runner and I also played tennis at a high level and have been properly fit for both. For running I had to order customs because of my feet, for tennis I was lucky that there was a model that actually accommodated my feet. 

Being properly fit doesn't mean that you'll be perfectly fit into a skate. Rather, it means that you now know the measurements that a skate should be built around. 

Just because most people are beer league players doesn't discount the fact that peoples feet are so extremely different from person to person that a "standard" fit profile isn't optimal for most (see previous post regarding NHL players that you conveniently left out of your response). The one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is how important it is to have your feet supported correctly. This in and of itself can lead to other physical issues in your ankles, knees, hips and pelvis due to poor skates (or shoes for that matter), not to mention other foot problems that could arise.

People are trying to discredit custom options merely based on a cost factor, which is really stupid considering many of the same people go out and spend $300 per stick and buy 2 or 3 or 6, which have a much less of usable life time than skates.

 

So you're not a runner but have no problem stating how long a serious runner shoes will last, umm OK... Do you actually think Nike is going to one off a pair of sneakers for some Joe Blow? If they only last 6 months why the hell would Joe Blow pay Nike to make a pair of custom shoes?

Being properly fit may not mean perfect, but for most of us it's damn near close enough. I'll argue all day long that the difference between a properly fitted retail skate and a perfectly fit custom is negligible at best.

The entire point about beer league is skill and time on ice. We're talking about guys who play maybe once or twice a week. Does that amount of ice time really require a perfectly fitted skate, or a skate that fits pretty damn good. I purposely left out NHL player because those guys are making a living with their skates.

The advantages of custom skates has been wildly overblown here. IMO the True/VH thread takes it to the next level. Honestly, it's getting a bit ridiculous.

Thought this was worth adding.

Quote

 

First, one thing needs to be clear: Joe Marathoner won’t even be able to buy Nike’s Vaporfly Elites—which are custom-made with a curved carbon-fiber plate specially adjusted for each runner privileged enough to wear them—much less run in them.

For his off-the-shelf model, Joe will need to wait until June 8, when the Vaporfly 4% shoe is released….

….There’s another big reason to wonder if the shoes’ appeal will extend beyond elite marathoners and the small group of runners who are always pursuing the latest shoe technologies: How much it will cost runners to get their hands on a pair?

Take Nike’s Vaporfly 4%. The name may refer to not just the efficiency gain the shoes may offer, but the upper 4% income class who’ll be able to afford their $250 price tag.

That price alone could deter many runners, says Jean Knaack, executive director of the Road Runners Club of America. “I don’t foresee the masses buying the shoe in large numbers,” Knaack tells Men’s Fitness. “There’s an audience that will buy a trend because it’s new. But longterm, I think people will stick with the more traditional running shoe that’s currently on the market.” (Men’s Fitness reached out to Nike for comment, but as of publication, no representatives had responded.)

Campitelli agrees. “There’s a select population of people that will buy this,” he says. “We see gimmicks and pendulum swings all the time in regard to shoes, and I feel this will be one of those. It may be good for elite racing, and runners attempting [to break the two-hour mark], but I don’t know that it will find its place in helping everyday runners.”

 

 

[darkhors 88]

2 hours ago, darkhors said:

The runner analogy is just fine. Runners only use their shoes for 6 months because the soles and insoles wear out and need to be replaced. Using them for x amount of miles has nothing to do with fit. I was a runner and I also played tennis at a high level and have been properly fit for both. For running I had to order customs because of my feet, for tennis I was lucky that there was a model that actually accommodated my feet. 

3 minutes ago, stick9 said:

So you're not a runner but have no problem stating how long a serious runner shoes will last, umm OK... Do you actually think Nike is going to one off a pair of sneakers for some Joe Blow? If they only last 6 months why the hell would Joe Blow pay Nike to make a pair of custom shoes?

 

So do you just purposely not read my posts before commenting? I was a competitive runner for 6 years, see above. I don't know about Nike because I didn't wear those for running, but NB and others do offer customs. Agree to disagree, but if you took price out of the equation, say even between 1X's and True/VH for example, I think you'd be surprised by how many people would opt for the custom fit over the 1X. You've consistently overlooked each of my points in regards to physical issues, fit and comfort when being fit for a skate. Again, can you get by in a retail, yes. However, my other point is that the investment that a custom skate is worth is much less when divided up over the life of the skate especially compared to all the other pieces of equipment that we purchase as hockey players each year. That coupled with the fact that it's the MAIN thing that we do in order to play the sport, it's silly that people are ok with having something that just feels ok.

[chippa13 1844]

We get it. You spent a shitload on some custom skates and are happy with the purchase. Your trophy is in the mail. That doesn't make it even close to the right path for the average beer leaguer who can find a great fit and all in a less than top of the line skate that will last them for years and years.

[darkhors 88]

Just now, chippa13 said:

We get it. You spent a shitload on some custom skates and are happy with the purchase. Your trophy is in the mail. That doesn't make it even close to the right path for the average beer leaguer who can find a great fit and all in a less than top of the line skate that will last them for years and years.

OMG... you're so clueless. I don't even own custom skates right now!!!!! Please for the love of GOD - READ THE POSTS BEFORE YOU COMMENT!!!!

[chippa13 1844]

So you're not even speaking from experience about how everyone MUST have customs in order to skate?

[VegasHockey 1280]

10 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

The vast majority of beer leaguers can get that at 50-70% of the cost of customs. Sure, there are those few out there who can't find something that works for them but outside of them the average beer leaguer can and will get 3-4-5 or more years from one, two, or even three rungs down from top of the line and get everything they want out of the skate.

I don't disagree. I think many people buy skates that are way too stiff and too costly. It's a waste. 

[darkhors 88]

At the moment, no I don't own customs. My next pair will be due to my experiences with my past two pairs of retail skates. My comments have been about why people overlook the advantages of custom skates, most because of the initial price, but also overlook the possibilities of having more foot pain and causing other possible injuries due to ill fitting skates. On top of that, it seems silly to overlook something that is crucial to playing the game and getting the proper fit, comfort and performance because it costs a lot. There's tons of other equipment that costs a lot that doesn't get the same amount of use or have the same impact as skates do. If you spend $1000 on a pair of skates that last 8 years, that's $125 a year on the most important piece of gear you own. Yet, people will go and shell out $200 per stick every 3 months. 

Again, can people get an ok fit or even a decent fit in retail, sure. But why is it so difficult for people to look at this as an investment as opposed to just a purchase (and I don't mean investment in terms of appreciating, but in long term cost effectiveness)?

I also never said people "MUST" have them. I merely said that they should really think about why it's a better option over the long haul.

[stick9 891]

1 hour ago, darkhors said:

So do you just purposely not read my posts before commenting? I was a competitive runner for 6 years, see above. I don't know about Nike because I didn't wear those for running, but NB and others do offer customs. Agree to disagree, but if you took price out of the equation, say even between 1X's and True/VH for example, I think you'd be surprised by how many people would opt for the custom fit over the 1X. You've consistently overlooked each of my points in regards to physical issues, fit and comfort when being fit for a skate. Again, can you get by in a retail, yes. However, my other point is that the investment that a custom skate is worth is much less when divided up over the life of the skate especially compared to all the other pieces of equipment that we purchase as hockey players each year. That coupled with the fact that it's the MAIN thing that we do in order to play the sport, it's silly that people are ok with having something that just feels ok.

Sorry misread your post. I thought you said you weren't a runner, my bad. Now that said, I have some friends who are pretty serious runner (major marathons and Triathlons) and they're in a retail shoes. 

FWIW, I didn't overlook your points regarding physical issues. The issue with hips and knees is a bit overplayed. I really don't think your average beer leaguer spends enough time on ice where less than optimal fitting skates would affect them physically. The average guy probably does more harm to their body wearing bad fitting dress shoes.

I have actual foot issues. I wore metal plates in my shoes as a kid to address flat feet. In 2011 I broke my right ankle and suffered a lisfranc fracture to the right foot. I have a plate with that runs down the side my fibula, stopping just short of the lateral malleolus (point of the ankle). The last screw in the plate is just shy of the point on the ankle bone. The lisfranc fracture left a decent lump on my instep causing depth issues. The plate isn't a fit issue, it's a comfort thing. Skates push and rub on those screw heads making each stride excruciating. Every pair of skates I have owned since this injury has require the ankle to be punched, with the exception of the 1X. It's the only skate I've been able to lace up and tighten as needed without that awful feeling and having screw heads being ground through my skin. So I kind of live it. 

[Leif 161]

5 hours ago, darkhors said:

I think that it's actually the exact opposite. Most people do need customs. I look at this like I would a running or tennis shoe, to an extent. If you're a runner or tennis player, you want the best possible fitting shoe you can get. If that is customs, you go customs because you are on your feet the entire time of play (just like hockey). If I had the option of buying off the shelf, top end skates or getting custom True's for the same price or even ~100 more, I'm going to get customs because they'll be more fit to my foot than retail. Retail skates can only accomplish so much because they're built for the masses. Can you be somewhat satisfied with them, sure. I'm pretty satisfied with my Bauer X90's, but I also had to spend another $150 for custom insoles because the foot beds are garbage and my feet hurt if I don't have them in there. I may or may not need those with custom skates, we'll see.

I guess my point is, why are people saying it's more expensive to buy Custom than retail, when in fact they're about the same price as the top of the line retail, mass marketed skates? If you're not looking in that price range, then yes, it's a bit of a jump to go there. However, feet are so extremely different from person to person that it doesn't make sense that people aren't getting more custom skates done. We all know that the pro's skates aren't retail. If retail was that good, then pro's would be wearing them and they're not.

I don't have a dog in the fight, other than I've decided that I'm going custom with my next purchase. If that's True or CCM's when they bring out their scanning stuff, who knows, but I'm not buying an off the shelf boot again.

Running shoes are a whole different ball game. Firstly they are soft, so it’s much easier to get a fit, and secondly the upper part is less likely to cause sores and blisters. I ran for many decades, and never had foot discomfort.

My previous skates were fitted by a hockey coach and were one size too big. I kept falling over when going slowly, my feet would shoot forwards, and I injured myself several times. A month or two later I bought new skates, at a proper shop, trying on loads to ensure a good fit. Skates have to be a snug fit, but feet vary, so it’s not easy to get the right pair. Several friends have foot pain. One has ordered True skates as stock skates do not fit him. 

[ParabolicActivity 48]

Decent retail skates are probably a totally servicable option for most individuals getting custom skates. But when someone has the disposable income and chooses to go with a custom skate, it is absolutely understandable. It feels good to have something that is special just for you. Getting all huffy about it is a joke. 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

This conversation is just going in circles now. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

This conversation is just going in circles now. 

Yeah..... This thread can be closed. When I get the True skates in a couple weeks I'll start a new thread comparing and contrasting them to some of the other models I have used. 

[Sniper9 530]

For those bashing custom skates whether from true or any other brand, if you can afford a skate that offered the best fit, comfort, and even performance, why wouldn't you?  Some people like nice cars, some nice bikes, basketball shoes, etc.... Do we all need bimmers and Porsches to get us from a to b? No. If someone wants to skate in customs or retails who cares.  Get what YOU want. 

For me, I was going to spend around the same amount on top end retail skates anyways, so that's why I opted to get trues. And I was very curious about them. I'm happy with my purchase. If they last five years, even better. I spend more annually on coffee than if these skates last five years. 

[Leif 161]

3 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

For those bashing custom skates whether from true or any other brand, if you can afford a skate that offered the best fit, comfort, and even performance, why wouldn't you?  Some people like nice cars, some nice bikes, basketball shoes, etc.... Do we all need bimmers and Porsches to get us from a to b? No. If someone wants to skate in customs or retails who cares.  Get what YOU want. 

For me, I was going to spend around the same amount on top end retail skates anyways, so that's why I opted to get trues. And I was very curious about them. I'm happy with my purchase. If they last five years, even better. I spend more annually on coffee than if these skates last five years. 

A friend is an amazing freestyle skater. For example he can skate backwards on one leg at a good speed around the entire rink without stopping, propelling himself with C cuts. He used to buy cheaper skates which only lasted a year or two due to the stresses he placed on them. Then he bought some carbon fibre skates, which have lasted ~8 years, although they now need replacing and he is looking at Trues. I don't know if this applies as well to hockey, since hockey skates will get damaged during games, although from what I have seen the shells of high end skates are much harder and resistant to abrasion. My mid range Bauer S160 skates already have tears in the outer covering, which thus far are cosmetic and do not affect the performance.

As regards your post, it makes sense.

[stick9 891]

18 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Fit, comfort, performance and better materials increase the skate longevity. Pay more up front for something that lasts longer. 

I'll give you fit. Custom made from a 3D scan.

Performance, I tend to think that gonna be negligible. Anyone stepping into a skate that fits well (custom or otherwise) will notice a boost in performance. The weight difference along should actually knock the True down a few pegs.

Better Materials, gotta go a solid NO here. Bauer and CCM have been at this a very very long time. Both have the means to research, develop and manufacture with the best materials available. I checked my 1X's, I couldn't find the rivet that holds the tendon guard on. See my point, a rivet....they couldn't find a better way to attach the tendon guard.

Longevity, another solid NO here. On top of that, they haven't been around long enough to really tell. 

If you want to tell me you bought your True's because nothing else fit like them, you'll get no argument from me. Those other areas, well that's just buying the hype or as I like to call it, drinking the kool-aid.

But hey, it's your money, spend as you see fit. I really hope they work out for you. 

[adam14 182]

18 minutes ago, stick9 said:

I'll give you fit. Custom made from a 3D scan.

Performance, I tend to think that gonna be negligible. Anyone stepping into a skate that fits well (custom or otherwise) will notice a boost in performance. The weight difference along should actually knock the True down a few pegs.

Better Materials, gotta go a solid NO here. Bauer and CCM have been at this a very very long time. Both have the means to research, develop and manufacture with the best materials available. I checked my 1X's, I couldn't find the rivet that holds the tendon guard on. See my point, a rivet....they couldn't find a better way to attach the tendon guard.

Longevity, another solid NO here. On top of that, they haven't been around long enough to really tell. 

If you want to tell me you bought your True's because nothing else fit like them, you'll get no argument from me. Those other areas, well that's just buying the hype or as I like to call it, drinking the kool-aid.

But hey, it's your money, spend as you see fit. I really hope they work out for you. 

his post was in response to paying for a top of the line level skate vs customs.

Which Bauer and CCM also offer. He didn't even mention True in his post and you just decided to bash them because you have some sort of personal vendetta against them.

This thread is pointless. Are there justifiable reasons for custom skates? Absolutely.

Are top of the line skates too much skate for 90% of players in them? Absolutely. 

it's like the analogy about the sports car. Not everybody needs it or would be of practical use, but it's still an option for a segment of the market. 

Quit beating a dead horse.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

14 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Yeah..... This thread can be closed. When I get the True skates in a couple weeks I'll start a new thread comparing and contrasting them to some of the other models I have used. 

No need; just add it to the existing True thread.