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The endless changing of skates.....

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1 minute ago, Zac911 said:

You know me ... It wasn't meant to be a dig at anybody personally,  so much as a dig at myself.  We all have our challenges in life.  Twitter has had a field day with that hashtag and many others.  At the end of the day they are just words and we shouldn't give them so much power.  Actions speak louder to me.  YMMV.

What up Zac! Cole in San Jose and Cory in Seattle told me to tell you hello. 

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3 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

I am not self-medicating. You act as if I have only been skating since I was an adult. I have spent 30+ years in hockey skates. Also, that hashtag is out of place. 

The follow-up comment after that sentence was that I didn't really think you got a trained eye on it.

And to follow up on yours, I don't doubt it for a minute that you may have never been fitted properly in those 30 years.  There's a lot of bad fitters out there.

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24 minutes ago, IniNew said:

 

 

Immediately after saying your feet should be happy (an emotional plea), interesting.

 

 

Surely we're not comparing hot spots on a skate to concussions, are we? Those costs you said stay there regardless of how "happy your feet are". If a cheaper option creates an acceptable situation, customs are absolutely a last resort, because it's additional money to accomplish a goal that can be met without it.

 

Is that the case for someone with different sized feet? Depends on their personal level of comfort. Is it a good reason to chuck $1000 custom skates at someone? Probably not always the best. 

You are right.  We as a whole should just passively accept that your feet are going to hurt. 

Interesting indeed... Especially when picked apart from the argument as a whole.  Let's just pick out what's conventient.  No wonder so many avoid internet forums / arguing.  

Edited by Zac911

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2 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

What up Zac! Cole in San Jose and Cory in Seattle told me to tell you hello. 

I don't know those guys... And I was never there :biggrin:

 

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1 minute ago, JR Boucicaut said:

The follow-up comment after that sentence was that I didn't really think you got a trained eye on it.

And to follow up on yours, I don't doubt it for a minute that you may have never been fitted properly in those 30 years.  There's a lot of bad fitters out there.

So my entire hockey careers, playing AAA Tier I and going to nationals multiple times, playing hockey at Shattuck, playing in the USHL and almost going to Div 1 college before my career was ended due to concussions, not a single shop ever fit me properly? Unlikely. 

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1 minute ago, Zac911 said:

I don't know those guys... And I was never there :biggrin:

 

Oh, my bad. I thought this was Zac Lampson

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I’m with you @Zac911. After trying numerous pairs of skates before finally finding one that didn’t hurt (Mako), when it came time to switch to goalie I wasn’t even going to try going through that process again. Went straight for VH. 

Admittedly if Mako goalie skates had been a thing I would have just bought those, though. But very glad I went the VH route. 

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17 minutes ago, Zac911 said:

You are right.  We as a whole should just passively accept that your feet are going to hurt. 

Interesting indeed... Especially when picked apart from the argument as a whole.  Let's just pick out what's conventient.  No wonder so many avoid internet forums / arguing.  

I commented on the gist of your post. Suggesting people go out and buy customs without being properly fitted for retail skates is not right, IMO. It's even more of the emotional marketing you claimed to be against. You're overselling a solution that *most* people don't need. 

Edited by IniNew

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2 hours ago, IniNew said:

I commented on the gist of your post. Suggesting people go out and buy customs without being properly fitted for retail skates is not right, IMO. It's even more of the emotional marketing you claimed to be against. You're overselling a solution that *most* people don't need

I have done 7k miles via car alone so far for 2018 and having seen many feet with issues that arose from a stock / retail skate or have actual fitment problems with stock / retail skates ... I tend to disagree with your statement.  

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On 2/10/2018 at 1:19 AM, Nicholas G said:

I the last 18 months I have owned Supreme MX3, Supreme 1S, Vapor 1x (2015), Vapor 1x (2017), CCM JetSpeed (2016), CCM JetSpeed FT1 (2017), CCM Super Tacks, and Easton Mako II skates. I just haven't been able to find the perfect skate, though I would say the Mako was the best fit although the boot was slightly too soft for my liking.

At this point, I am considering a pair of True skates.

I do not consider myself having "difficult" or "unique" feet other than my left is 0.5 sizes smaller than my right and I have a very high arch. Am I just not giving these skates and my body mechanics a fair enough time to adjust? I skate 5+ days a weekly, 12+ hours weekly, so every pair of skates usually gets a fair amount of usage before I give up on them and move on to trying another model on. 

The Bauer Skate Lab said I should wear a 7EE. This may have felt ok to most people but to me, the skates felt too loose and sloppy. I usually need to get an E/A boot or I prefer to slightly stretch a D width. I really love my skates having zero negative space.

I have read both positive and negative reviews regarding the True skates and would hate to invest such a huge amount of money into them if there are other alternatives I should be considered

Thanks for the help in advance. 

Just bumped into this thread. I could have written it myself. I've been on Vapor,Supreme, Ribcore, not quite as many as you but ridiculous. I feel like I can find boot comfort in a few of them, but never feel "comfortable" on any of them. I skate about 4 times a week and I give them each a month or more but they never feel quite right. One thing we have in common is a lot of years on Graf. It sucks but my brain is somehow programed to the Graf feel and It bums me out, but I don't seem able to adjust to anything else. I don't have an answer for you,I can only say I understand exactly what your talking about. People say I look comfortable, "you look the same" on each pair, but I'm not feeling it. I see other Graf users that went to True and money aside say the Graf were more comfortable. This scares me. Love to hear what solves it for you I'm about giving up.

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Maybe it’s time to merge this with the VH thread. After all, do we really need two separate threads saying the same thing.

People might think were sponsored by VH or something.

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19 hours ago, IniNew said:

I commented on the gist of your post. Suggesting people go out and buy customs without being properly fitted for retail skates is not right, IMO. It's even more of the emotional marketing you claimed to be against. You're overselling a solution that *most* people don't need. 

I think that it's actually the exact opposite. Most people do need customs. I look at this like I would a running or tennis shoe, to an extent. If you're a runner or tennis player, you want the best possible fitting shoe you can get. If that is customs, you go customs because you are on your feet the entire time of play (just like hockey). If I had the option of buying off the shelf, top end skates or getting custom True's for the same price or even ~100 more, I'm going to get customs because they'll be more fit to my foot than retail. Retail skates can only accomplish so much because they're built for the masses. Can you be somewhat satisfied with them, sure. I'm pretty satisfied with my Bauer X90's, but I also had to spend another $150 for custom insoles because the foot beds are garbage and my feet hurt if I don't have them in there. I may or may not need those with custom skates, we'll see.

I guess my point is, why are people saying it's more expensive to buy Custom than retail, when in fact they're about the same price as the top of the line retail, mass marketed skates? If you're not looking in that price range, then yes, it's a bit of a jump to go there. However, feet are so extremely different from person to person that it doesn't make sense that people aren't getting more custom skates done. We all know that the pro's skates aren't retail. If retail was that good, then pro's would be wearing them and they're not.

I don't have a dog in the fight, other than I've decided that I'm going custom with my next purchase. If that's True or CCM's when they bring out their scanning stuff, who knows, but I'm not buying an off the shelf boot again.

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Does every skate fit every unique foot perfectly? No. 

That doesn't mean custom skates are needed for everyone. It's a classic take on marginal utility.

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28 minutes ago, darkhors said:

I think that it's actually the exact opposite. Most people do need customs. I look at this like I would a running or tennis shoe, to an extent. If you're a runner or tennis player, you want the best possible fitting shoe you can get. If that is customs, you go customs because you are on your feet the entire time of play (just like hockey). If I had the option of buying off the shelf, top end skates or getting custom True's for the same price or even ~100 more, I'm going to get customs because they'll be more fit to my foot than retail. Retail skates can only accomplish so much because they're built for the masses. Can you be somewhat satisfied with them, sure. I'm pretty satisfied with my Bauer X90's, but I also had to spend another $150 for custom insoles because the foot beds are garbage and my feet hurt if I don't have them in there. I may or may not need those with custom skates, we'll see.

I guess my point is, why are people saying it's more expensive to buy Custom than retail, when in fact they're about the same price as the top of the line retail, mass marketed skates? If you're not looking in that price range, then yes, it's a bit of a jump to go there. However, feet are so extremely different from person to person that it doesn't make sense that people aren't getting more custom skates done. We all know that the pro's skates aren't retail. If retail was that good, then pro's would be wearing them and they're not.

I don't have a dog in the fight, other than I've decided that I'm going custom with my next purchase. If that's True or CCM's when they bring out their scanning stuff, who knows, but I'm not buying an off the shelf boot again.

I'd argue that statement alone means you do have a dog in this fight (horrible expression BTW).

The running analogy is not a very good one. Serious runners only use their shoes for X amount of miles. Basketball would have been a better analogy. I know some hardcore runners and hikers, I don't believe they buy custom shoes. They do however get fit for shoes by people who know what the hell they are doing.

The reality here is, your common beer leaguer (see 99% of those here) don't actually need a custom skate. What they need is a proper fitting by someone who knows what they are doing. 

If I created a thread raving about my 1X's, pimping them to everyone who asked about skates, I would be called a "fanboy" or "honk" and be laughed off the site. 

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15 minutes ago, stick9 said:

I'd argue that statement alone means you do have a dog in this fight (horrible expression BTW).

The running analogy is not a very good one. Serious runners only use their shoes for X amount of miles. Basketball would have been a better analogy. I know some hardcore runners and hikers, I don't believe they buy custom shoes. They do however get fit for shoes by people who know what the hell they are doing.

The reality here is, your common beer leaguer (see 99% of those here) don't actually need a custom skate. What they need is a proper fitting by someone who knows what they are doing. 

If I created a thread raving about my 1X's, pimping them to everyone who asked about skates, I would be called a "fanboy" or "honk" and be laughed off the site. 

Actually, I don't have a dog in the fight. I didn't say I was only buying True/VH, I said that I'm not buying off the shelf. I'm not saying one brand is better than the other either. I'm just saying I've made the decision (based on my research and experiences) that I'm not going to waste my money on standard fitting skates.

The runner analogy is just fine. Runners only use their shoes for 6 months because the soles and insoles wear out and need to be replaced. Using them for x amount of miles has nothing to do with fit. I was a runner and I also played tennis at a high level and have been properly fit for both. For running I had to order customs because of my feet, for tennis I was lucky that there was a model that actually accommodated my feet. 

Being properly fit doesn't mean that you'll be perfectly fit into a skate. Rather, it means that you now know the measurements that a skate should be built around. 

Just because most people are beer league players doesn't discount the fact that peoples feet are so extremely different from person to person that a "standard" fit profile isn't optimal for most (see previous post regarding NHL players that you conveniently left out of your response). The one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is how important it is to have your feet supported correctly. This in and of itself can lead to other physical issues in your ankles, knees, hips and pelvis due to poor skates (or shoes for that matter), not to mention other foot problems that could arise.

People are trying to discredit custom options merely based on a cost factor, which is really stupid considering many of the same people go out and spend $300 per stick and buy 2 or 3 or 6, which have a much less of usable life time than skates.

 

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With the moldability and multiple fit profiles out there, the vast majority of beer leaguers should be able to find that excellent fit in the retail world. These are the same guys who buy sticks on clearance or buy below top of the line. But they should all $1,000 on custom skates because you say those $400-650 options just won't work for them.

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The off the shelf retail fit might not be perfect for everyone, but now that the higher end models are so thermoform-able that makes them able to have a customized fit, that I'm sure makes them work for a whole lot more people.

Edited by g3k

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17 hours ago, stick9 said:

Maybe it’s time to merge this with the VH thread. After all, do we really need two separate threads saying the same thing.

People might think were sponsored by VH or something.

I disagree. This thread isn't really as much about True skates as it is about skarers who remember when Graf were on top and now lament the fact that Graf is lagging behind and yet nothing really fills that void. That True comes closest to hitting all the right marks is secondary.

Additionally, monster threads like the one about True skates are unreadable. Topics over a certain number of pages should rather be their own subforum. As it is now, long threads become bloated due to their global scope, covering any and every topic related to the theme, making it all to easy for that, "this thread is so long I couldn't be bothered to find where it's already been discussed 5X how do i black out the heels on my skates," etc. It's less informative, plain and simple.

If anything this topic could just be renamed to put the ode to Graf's good old days in focus.

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2 hours ago, chippa13 said:

95% of hockey players don't need top of the line skates so why would they pay over those prices for a custom skate that is overbuilt for them?

Fit, comfort.

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2 hours ago, chippa13 said:

95% of hockey players don't need top of the line skates so why would they pay over those prices for a custom skate that is overbuilt for them?

......but 100% of players do need skates that fit them properly. 

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11 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Fit, comfort.

Fit, comfort, performance and better materials increase the skate longevity. Pay more up front for something that lasts longer. 

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3 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Fit, comfort, performance and better materials increase the skate longevity. Pay more up front for something that lasts longer. 

I’m not good enough to worry about performance and not hard enough on my skates to worry about longevity. HOWEVER I definitely do like not skating in pain. 

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