VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

Haha it's all good. You are bring information to the table. Not everyone is going to agree, but bring substance at least. Based on what I saw, I think you were doing that.

[Fletch 219]

3 hours ago, JunkyardAthletic said:

Personally, I think the KOR skate looked more "finished" if you will, than the TRUE skate.

Also, I'm very curious, with Scott's involvement at one time with KOR, how the TRUE skate differs from it.

This is what was planned for 2009, although, with a black tendon guard.  

Had no idea that SVH was involved with KOR. Very cool!  I guess that's why they looked similar to me :)

Edited August 9, 2017 by Fletch

[Zac911 317]

3 hours ago, JunkyardAthletic said:

Personally, I think the KOR skate looked more "finished" if you will, than the TRUE skate.

Also, I'm very curious, with Scott's involvement at one time with KOR, how the TRUE skate differs from it.

This is what was planned for 2009, although, with a black tendon guard.  

Marce-  The biggest difference is that each skate made is not a one size fits all on the Carbon heel or even the first pic where it runs through the arch.  Scott is building a full custom carbon fiber sled for the bottom half of the players foot-  This " sled " is made to fit the ball,  arch,  heel width and depth of the individual per the 3D scan.  The VH skate does not have a toe cap like we have all come to know about how skates have been traditionally made for years.   

This is more of the Tesla Model vs Selling Size runs into the dealer.  It's a just a different way of making and selling skates.

That Pitch Holder while it had great steel- Talk about a holder that was difficult to get on the ball of your feet with... Yikes.  It was heavy as well,  but that's because,  it had alot more steel than the LS2.

[Zac911 317]

17 minutes ago, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

Haha it's all good. You are bring information to the table. Not everyone is going to agree, but bring substance at least. Based on what I saw, I think you were doing that.

I appreciate that.  THANK YOU!

When I first saw the VH Skates at Sharks Ice about 5 or so years ago his comments were my first thought as well... I had much to learn about what Scott and Garth were doing.

This is a Performance Fit first model.  Professional Players are having fit issues-  When you make your living on your feet and your skates are causing your feet problems... You can't solve those problems by using the same line of thinking that created those problems in the first place.

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

Absolutely. They've realized that cosmetics come second when performance address EVERY need.

[Stewie 721]

13 hours ago, Fletch said:

I saw the skate in person today at Monkey.  I have to say, I am impressed (and not because I am a True fanboy ;)

The look of the heel reminds me of the KOR skate from back in the day, a skate that I really liked.  

honestly I thought it looked worse in person than in photos somehow. How they look will play very little into my decision of which skates ill buy next, but if its a tie breaker, I'm going for the ones that catch my eye. I am interested to see what the options are for bauers 3D, True, and just getting some custom CCM skates, when I go to make that decision in a year or so. 

[adam14 182]

1 hour ago, Stewie said:

honestly I thought it looked worse in person than in photos somehow. How they look will play very little into my decision of which skates ill buy next, but if its a tie breaker, I'm going for the ones that catch my eye. I am interested to see what the options are for bauers 3D, True, and just getting some custom CCM skates, when I go to make that decision in a year or so. 

The options for bauers 3D are nexus vapor supreme D or EE width. That's all the scanner is going to do for you unless you're looking into going full customs. 

 

Vh is is offering a full digital scan of your feet and those are sent directly to VH to build a custom last. 

 

Ccm customs remain main pretty unchanged, less tinkering is available in terms of volume because of the one piece boot compared to previous years but still relatively standard. 

[Stewie 721]

12 minutes ago, adam14 said:

The options for bauers 3D are nexus vapor supreme D or EE width. That's all the scanner is going to do for you unless you're looking into going full customs. 

 

Vh is is offering a full digital scan of your feet and those are sent directly to VH to build a custom last. 

 

Ccm customs remain main pretty unchanged, less tinkering is available in terms of volume because of the one piece boot compared to previous years but still relatively standard. 

I understand what the options are, and when the time comes I will work with someone knowledgeable to get what I think is the right performance/fit/price ratio. if theres any sort of tie, ill only then go with aesthetics. 

[Kgbeast 195]

5 hours ago, Zac911 said:

You have established that you don't like it.  That is fine,  but when you only retort to selected comments of mine and avoid others all together... That is where the evolving the conversation stops.

Sorry that it came out like that, but I have "ignored" the points that were not brought up in my original post. For example the part where you were expanding on how VH skates are built not as per generic last, but molded for each player individually. That had nothing to do with my original post so I did not respond to it. Neither I claimed that VH made the same as Mako, I just said that cheese-cloth texture of the heel reminds me Mako skates. I am familiar with the fact that the each skate is molded for each customer individually. I do agree that it is the only real method to get skater in the skates that fit perfectly, especially if skater has some abnormalities and I appreciate that aspect of the True skates. My original post was purely aesthetics related and all my replies to your follow-ups were (not inappropriately) limited to just that. Aesthetics are subjective topic and as such not a good subject to evolve a conversation around. I did, later, add something about that use of player holder for goalie holder is a miss, but perhaps that was a train gone at that time. That is something that I would like to hear more about. Thanks,

[qmechanic 17]

5 hours ago, Zac911 said:

The holder is 2mm taller in the heel from the toe.  Very few of the players Scott has worked with have noticed.  The steel is a 9ft radius.  For players that don't feel like they are balanced I would also remind people to look at the steel they were skating on prior-  Is it still perfectly radiused or are the heel and toe ground down?  Anybody transitioning to new steel will have an adjustment period.

Wow, that's weird.  So apparently, the steel is negative pitch and the holder is positive pitch -- And they cancel each other out?  Is it confusing for a pro shop to sharpen negatively pitched steel?  I was interested in getting the True holder to replace my LS2 holder, but now I'm not so sure.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

22 minutes ago, qmechanic said:

Wow, that's weird.  So apparently, the steel is negative pitch and the holder is positive pitch -- And they cancel each other out?  Is it confusing for a pro shop to sharpen negatively pitched steel?  I was interested in getting the True holder to replace my LS2 holder, but now I'm not so sure.

Where are you getting that the steel is negative pitch?

And no, profile has no impact on how the skates are sharpened.

[Kgbeast 195]

19 hours ago, Jason said:

All I can say was that he said they have a difficult time clamping them in to sharpen and that compared to Bauer or CCM versions of the Step Steel, the Step made for the VH holder is taller in the front of the blade creating a reverse pitch.

Are you sure these were not goalie VH? Goalie VH are pretty low and non-uniform and might be hard to camp, but players VH are pretty normal. I see Cobras or CXN steel be profiled to as much as -3 to offset the extra positive pitch of the holder, but VH holder is fairly neutral to do this to.

[Fletch 219]

On 8/8/2017 at 1:11 PM, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

 

[Fletch 219]

Not sure if this has been posted or not but here is a good look at the fitting process:

 

[Fletch 219]

Also some fitting tutorial videos on True's YT channel, I assume for shop employees to view:

 

[Jason 65]

11 hours ago, Zac911 said:

The holder is 2mm taller in the heel from the toe.  Very few of the players Scott has worked with have noticed.  The steel is a 9ft radius.  For players that don't feel like they are balanced I would also remind people to look at the steel they were skating on prior-  Is it still perfectly radiused or are the heel and toe ground down?  Anybody transitioning to new steel will have an adjustment period.

In any case when it comes to balance and rocker-  Nothing that a quality Radius Job can't do.  I hear Pro Sharp up in Van is doing very well with their Quad Radius.

A stock radius on any new steel is fairly meh for the masses,  but perfect for nobody.  It's time we look at Steel Prep like Race Car Drivers do with their Tires.  Time to evolve the conversation.

I generally prefer to drop the steel from the holder when sharpening,  but completely understand that for time constraints it's not always possible ( I have done this even with my tuuks ).

I have not seen or heard many complaints regarding clamping with the holder-  Can you elaborate on this?  Are you saying the clamp is hanging up on the holder somewhere?  Can you provide pics?

 

 

I'm only going by what he told me. He said it was hard to clamp. I believe he was referring to the holder plastic somehow contacting the clamp or gettting in the way somehow. Kind of like it used to with those carbon fiber easton holders back in the day.

 I used to sharpen and profile with him at the shop and I am very well educated on things like pitch, radius, hollow, etc. I have also heard good things about Max Performance Sport's Pro Sharp Quad radius. I haven't actually tried it myself. I profile my own steel and I still skate on a standard 12' radius that I pitch forward slightly. In my experience with Step Steel in most holders, the pitch is quite consistent and usually comes so that the amount of steel that protrudes from the holder would be slightly taller (say 1/32") in the back of the working radius than it is in the front. You can measure it outside of the holder and find roughly the same result. This is not the case with some steel. LS4 steel would often come taller in the front with a very bulbous toe shape. What my friend was saying about the Step Steel for the VH holder was that it was taller in the front, thus creating a reverse pitch effect. Of course this can be corrected with some reshaping of the blade and all holders are pitched forward, so yes it does counteract that effect. I just feel like steel should always come neutral or forward pitched slightly because the majority of skaters like it that way. I don't personally know anyone that likes to skate on a reverse pitched blade. It seems a bit strange that the steel would be different in the VH holder than the other Step steel made for other holders. 

I don't have any pictures. I will talk to my friend again and get a more detailed explanation.

By the way, I totally agree with your racecar analogy. That's the approach I take with my own skates.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Jason

[Zac911 317]

All good reading here.  I have to check out for a while and get back on the road with the Fit Center Training.  I have been so busy even eating has been a bit of a challenge.  The first leg of my tour I lost 15lbs.  I know many have questions via the board or DM.  I am not ignoring you,  but I have to get back out and work.  I will do my best to check in when I can.  Hope you understand.  :)

[Fletch 219]

Got my fitting done today, got white felt tongues and embroidered numbers on those.  Now comes the hard part, the wait 

[Bizz22 6]

15 hours ago, Fletch said:

Got my fitting done today, got white felt tongues and embroidered numbers on those.  Now comes the hard part, the wait 

Whats the wait time like?

[Bizz22 6]

Does anyone know if the Step holder and edge holder have a  similar rivet pattern?

[Fletch 219]

1 hour ago, Bizz22 said:

Whats the wait time like?

They said 15 days at the shop but I also heard 3-4 weeks from another person... either way, it's gonna suck to have to wait!  Haha.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

19 minutes ago, Fletch said:

They said 15 days at the shop but I also heard 3-4 weeks from another person... either way, it's gonna suck to have to wait!  Haha.

But soooooo worth it! 

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

19 minutes ago, Fletch said:

They said 15 days at the shop but I also heard 3-4 weeks from another person... either way, it's gonna suck to have to wait!  Haha.

I remember the TRUE hockey rep telling a group of us at SummerJam 9 that right now he is putting in the pro orders so the retail orders will be delayed.

[malcb33 97]

1 hour ago, Bizz22 said:

Does anyone know if the Step holder and edge holder have a  similar rivet pattern?

It's similar but not the same. I was told you would likely need to enlarge a couple of holes to go from Edge to Step holders. 

[calby8 10]

1 hour ago, Fletch said:

They said 15 days at the shop but I also heard 3-4 weeks from another person... either way, it's gonna suck to have to wait!  Haha.

Which Monkey Sports did you go to? I went to the one in Irvine, they said 3-4 weeks. Most likely 4.