VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[Larry54 243]

2 hours ago, Superjet said:

So far I’ve tried the stock footbeds with one red footbed underneath, and also blue superfeet with a red footbed underneath.  Both felt about the same.  I think it’s not so much the shape of the heel in the back of the skate, its the lack of pressure applied by the tongue/laces to hold my foot back into the boot.  Pics for ref.  I'm wondering if i could have someone add "cutback" eyelets to these?

 

 

There seems to be a lot of space between the pencil and your foot. However, to me those pictures don't look like a properly baked VH skate. The eyelet walls should be wrapping over the top of your foot instead of jutting straight up. On my skates, I can almost squeeze my pinky finger beneath the pencil at its closest point to the foot, but the eyelet walls curve over my foot and ankle. I suggest you rebake them and press down on the eyelet rows with your hands while the hot boot is on your foot. Or use a heat gun to soften the top of the skate while it's on your foot, and press down the area with your hands while taking up the slack in your laces that this will result in.

[BureKovy 20]

2 hours ago, Superjet said:

So far I’ve tried the stock footbeds with one red footbed underneath, and also blue superfeet with a red footbed underneath.  Both felt about the same.  I think it’s not so much the shape of the heel in the back of the skate, its the lack of pressure applied by the tongue/laces to hold my foot back into the boot.  Pics for ref.  I'm wondering if i could have someone add "cutback" eyelets to these?

 

I would try rebaking them, there should be way more wrap around your foot.  The eyelets shouldn't be straight out like that. I can't even put my foot straight in because the eyelets are too close together, I have to turn my foot. Try the tensor technique.

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by BureKovy

[Vet88 674]

The problem with adding layers under the foot is it starts to push the heel out of the heel socket. 

I'd be pissed too, something somewhere has gone horribly amiss. Unless you have asked for a strange custom fit, either the shop has screwed up with the scan / measurements or True have got something wrong with the fit. Any fitter worth his salt would look at this and wonder why.

On thinking back to the True skates I was looking at last month, the eyelets had significant wrap on them. I had to turn my foot sideways to get into the boot. Comparing those to yours and the straight sidewalls you have, it's almost as if True didn't finish the fit and wrap the eyelets over the top of your foot. Maybe that is what they will suggest, whatever it is those photos tell a sad story and hopefully True will be able to put it right.

Edit - Ha, just seen the 2 previous posts and we all seem to be on the same page re the wrap.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Vet88

[Superjet 6]

On 7/25/2018 at 9:48 PM, Vet88 said:

The problem with adding layers under the foot is it starts to push the heel out of the heel socket. 

I'd be pissed too, something somewhere has gone horribly amiss. Unless you have asked for a strange custom fit, either the shop has screwed up with the scan / measurements or True have got something wrong with the fit. Any fitter worth his salt would look at this and wonder why.

On thinking back to the True skates I was looking at last month, the eyelets had significant wrap on them. I had to turn my foot sideways to get into the boot. Comparing those to yours and the straight sidewalls you have, it's almost as if True didn't finish the fit and wrap the eyelets over the top of your foot. Maybe that is what they will suggest, whatever it is those photos tell a sad story and hopefully True will be able to put it right.

Edit - Ha, just seen the 2 previous posts and we all seem to be on the same page re the wrap.

I totally agree with the part about adding insoles. I’m going to try a rebake per everyone’s suggestions  and wrapping them. I wish someone had one of the old Tacks machines around here that I could use. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Superjet

[navy21 4]

On 7/25/2018 at 3:19 PM, Superjet said:

So far I’ve tried the stock footbeds with one red footbed underneath, and also blue superfeet with a red footbed underneath.  Both felt about the same.  I think it’s not so much the shape of the heel in the back of the skate, its the lack of pressure applied by the tongue/laces to hold my foot back into the boot.  Pics for ref.  I'm wondering if i could have someone add "cutback" eyelets to these?

 

 

http://www.tognar.com/the-eliminator-custom-tongue-shims/

 

Maybe give these a try.  I have similar issues ---skinny ankle with a low volume (but mine are wide too) foot.  Luckily, it's less of an issue in my skates.  Ive used the product above for ski boots and they work really well, but they are fairly thick, especially over the forefoot.  You could always trim that though....

[Superjet 6]

9 hours ago, navy21 said:

http://www.tognar.com/the-eliminator-custom-tongue-shims/

 

Maybe give these a try.  I have similar issues ---skinny ankle with a low volume (but mine are wide too) foot.  Luckily, it's less of an issue in my skates.  Ive used the product above for ski boots and they work really well, but they are fairly thick, especially over the forefoot.  You could always trim that though....

Sounds a lot like my feet. Narrow ankles and a wider than avg forefoot. That foot shape pushed me into customs.  I was in Bauer Supremes for 15+ years before I started this adventure. 

[mojo122 535]

The above product looks like it would help take up some of the high volume that boot has.  My concern with trying to have it wrap more over the top of your foot is that there would be too much wrap which can inhibit the boots' ability to flex forward properly and also lead to the boot breaking down prematurely.  Just somewhat disconcerting to have to drop another $30 dollars on top of what you paid for customs.  Maybe True has a thicker tongue they can send you instead.

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 7/25/2018 at 5:54 PM, Superjet said:

I haven’t contacted them about the second pair. I was so disappointed in the whole experience, so I tried a few things on my own, like the insoles and lacing patterns.  I even asked the shop to measure for the second pair manually in addition to a new scan, but they said that was unnecessary. I feel like that would have pointed out the issue as well. I added another red layer to try tonight, but I’ll try emailing true directly instead of going through the shop I purchased them from.  I’m pretty sure the shop is tired of me anyways. 

We do a lot of True skates and I haven't seen a pair fit this strangely ever. There is definitely too much depth in that boot, almost like fitting someone who needs a FT1 in a Ribcor... Have you shared these pics with True directly or only the shop?

[flip12 714]

On 7/19/2018 at 10:57 PM, Larry54 said:

Funny you should mention that. Before getting my first pair of VH skates almost 5 years ago, I skipped the top eyelet on Bauer Flexlites. When I got the VH skates, I had all the forward flex I needed even laced to the top. Those skates were lighter and more flexible than my current pair of VH skates that I've had for about a year and a half. I've been struggling a bit with limited knee flex with the new, much stiffer VH skates. I tried different lacing patterns with different types of laces (regular, waxed, and oval). For the last month or so, I've been omitting the top eyelet, partly inspired by posts by Vet88 and Amazinmets73. After having gone through a short adjustment period, I'm finally feeling the same agility and mobility that my old VH skates provided. It's as if the boot is so secure to my foot below the second eyelet that I don't need the additional stability that the upper eyelet provides.

I keep thinking about ways to remedy the restrictiveness I see at the top of True's boots. Funny the early VH were less stiff though. I don't know how the MLX->earlyVH->laterVH->True stiffness compares. Still, I think the boots seem to be too restrictive/overdetermined.

On 7/26/2018 at 12:19 AM, Superjet said:

So far I’ve tried the stock footbeds with one red footbed underneath, and also blue superfeet with a red footbed underneath.  Both felt about the same.  I think it’s not so much the shape of the heel in the back of the skate, its the lack of pressure applied by the tongue/laces to hold my foot back into the boot.  Pics for ref.  I'm wondering if i could have someone add "cutback" eyelets to these?

Seeing your pictures after making the recommendation about adding another insole, I definitely agree with those that say the wrap on your skates doesn't look like it should. That's certainly a contributing factor.

[flip12 714]

On 7/26/2018 at 3:48 AM, Vet88 said:

The problem with adding layers under the foot is it starts to push the heel out of the heel socket. 

I'd be pissed too, something somewhere has gone horribly amiss. Unless you have asked for a strange custom fit, either the shop has screwed up with the scan / measurements or True have got something wrong with the fit. Any fitter worth his salt would look at this and wonder why.

On thinking back to the True skates I was looking at last month, the eyelets had significant wrap on them. I had to turn my foot sideways to get into the boot. Comparing those to yours and the straight sidewalls you have, it's almost as if True didn't finish the fit and wrap the eyelets over the top of your foot. Maybe that is what they will suggest, whatever it is those photos tell a sad story and hopefully True will be able to put it right.

Edit - Ha, just seen the 2 previous posts and we all seem to be on the same page re the wrap.

I agree with the first sentence of your post. Only, its applicability is clearly limited to cases where there's a good match between the volume of the skater's heel and the skate's heel pocket. If the skate's heel pocket has too much volume, which would be detected by heel slipping and is the case presented by the poster in question, it could help to boost the skater's heel up to better align with the skate's heel pocket. This was the case for me in my MLX. I had extreme comfort and connection to my edges, but really bad heel slippage. I first tried to reduce excessive volume by trading out for thicker tongues, then by adding extra padding under the thicker tongue. For me, the skates just had too much volume throughout. I could get decent midfoot fit, but the toes and heels were way too deep for me. Adding the extra insole fixed that. For custom skates, this is an unacceptable hack. But it's a hack that could demonstrate the need for a rebuild to address the misfit between foot and boot. If it helps, it says a lot. If not, no harm done. Just some simple caveman debugging.

[Superjet 6]

6 hours ago, mojo122 said:

The above product looks like it would help take up some of the high volume that boot has.  My concern with trying to have it wrap more over the top of your foot is that there would be too much wrap which can inhibit the boots' ability to flex forward properly and also lead to the boot breaking down prematurely.  Just somewhat disconcerting to have to drop another $30 dollars on top of what you paid for customs.  Maybe True has a thicker tongue they can send you instead.

I agree, I'm concerned if these "wrap" tight enough that I won't have any forward flex.  The boots are already extremely stiff.

5 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

We do a lot of True skates and I haven't seen a pair fit this strangely ever. There is definitely too much depth in that boot, almost like fitting someone who needs a FT1 in a Ribcor... Have you shared these pics with True directly or only the shop?

I haven't shared these pics with anyone other than you guys so far.  I've been thinking I'm crazy over the past few months since the second pair fit the same way after they re-measured me.  I'll be emailing these to True directly after this post.

 

Here are a few more pics to show how "roomy" they are.  To those of you that have a good pair, do you have this much room on the sides of your feet too?

Edited July 27, 2018 by Superjet
Added Pics

[start_today 770]

  Apologies for being a negative Nelly, If those were pics of a retail boot, I think the general consensus would be that you need an entirely different model. 

 What did they change between the first pair and the second pair you had made?  Did either True or of the shop ask to see your feet in the boots before they remade them?  To me, seems like the onus should be on the "experts" (them)  to help diagnose the problem, before remaking custom skates. But, being that they have already made a second pair of boots, I wonder if they would do a third pair to address this? 

[Superjet 6]

18 minutes ago, start_today said:

  Apologies for being a negative Nelly, If those were pics of a retail boot, I think the general consensus would be that you need an entirely different model. 

 What did they change between the first pair and the second pair you had made?  Did either True or of the shop ask to see your feet in the boots before they remade them?  To me, seems like the onus should be on the "experts" (them)  to help diagnose the problem, before remaking custom skates. But, being that they have already made a second pair of boots, I wonder if they would do a third pair to address this? 

They took a few pics of my feet in the old boots, and that was about it.  I was told that they would reduce the instep depth.  Wish I would have taken measurements of the old pair to compare.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

6 hours ago, Superjet said:

They took a few pics of my feet in the old boots, and that was about it.  I was told that they would reduce the instep depth.  Wish I would have taken measurements of the old pair to compare.

Are these pictures of the boot only with no holder on? 

 

Have they been heated yet?

[Superjet 6]

6 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Are these pictures of the boot only with no holder on? 

 

Have they been heated yet?

No, I have LS2 holders on these and have been skating on them for about 3 months.  They were heated at the shop when I picked them up. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

1 hour ago, Superjet said:

No, I have LS2 holders on these and have been skating on them for about 3 months.  They were heated at the shop when I picked them up. 

Sorry I mean in this picture there is no holder on the boot.  Have these been taken prior to heating and blade installation? Do you have an updated picture now with tongue in and so on? Also do you not wear any socks?

Edited July 28, 2018 by oldtrainerguy28

[Superjet 6]

24 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Sorry I mean in this picture there is no holder on the boot.  Have these been taken prior to heating and blade installation? Do you have an updated picture now with tongue in and so on? Also do you not wear any socks?

 

The holders are on the boots in all of the pics. I took the pictures last night.

 

I don’t wear socks, I tried a pair of stable 26’s with these and they didn’t make a difference.  I like to feel connected to the boot. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Superjet

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

11 minutes ago, Superjet said:

 

The holders are on the boots in all of the pics. I took the pictures last night.

 

I don’t wear socks, I tried a pair of stable 26’s with these and they didn’t make a difference.  I like to feel connected to the boot. 

I have done a few pairs of Ture/VH skates and I have yet to have a pair not close in tighter than that? What temp and length in the oven did they do?

Edited July 28, 2018 by oldtrainerguy28

[Superjet 6]

24 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

I have done a few pairs of Ture/VH skates and I have yet to have a pair not close in tighter than that? What temp and length in the oven did they do?

No idea on temp (graf oven), but they were in for a good 10 mins. I got them from Westside, so I’d assume they knew what they were doing.  

Edited July 28, 2018 by Superjet

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

8 minutes ago, Superjet said:

No idea on temp (graf oven), but they were in for a good 10 mins. I got them from Westside, so I’d assume they knew what they were doing.  

Yes, they sure do. I am sure if you speak with them and have Rob from True give his thoughts it will be sorted. He has always fixed any issues I have had.

[navy21 4]

20 hours ago, Superjet said:

I agree, I'm concerned if these "wrap" tight enough that I won't have any forward flex.  The boots are already extremely stiff.

I haven't shared these pics with anyone other than you guys so far.  I've been thinking I'm crazy over the past few months since the second pair fit the same way after they re-measured me.  I'll be emailing these to True directly after this post.

 

Here are a few more pics to show how "roomy" they are.  To those of you that have a good pair, do you have this much room on the sides of your feet too?

I'm sure mine would fit that way if I hadn't heat molded them....I agree with the rest of the thread, it looks like the upper 2/3 of the boot was never formed around your foot/ankle.   The area just above where you have your finger actually "wrapped" so well around my ankle/midfoot junction that I could not get my foot back into them when I got home, even with a shoehorn.  I had to use the heat gun to open them up.   

I have had more issues than I would have expected with my skates, but have recently found a happy medium between comfort-performance.  

Don't be afraid to re-bake the skates.  I confirmed with True that they can be re-baked up to 8 times with no structural compromise.  One thing that helped me as well was the suggestion on here to just worry about one boot at a time.  Also, I did the re-bake in my own oven 2 more times after the initial one from the shop....no issues.  

[BureKovy 20]

I would rebake, then go from there about forward flexion.  This will solve your volume issues, if you want you could go right to the tensor method.  Then you can work at opening the eyelets up with a heat gun.  This is what I did.

If you can get your foot in and out without twisting, then it's probably not baked right.

I know guys that have baked trues 10 times.  Ive done them twice and going to do them again after changing the tongue and insole.

Edited July 28, 2018 by BureKovy

[Superjet 6]

18 hours ago, navy21 said:

 

I have had more issues than I would have expected with my skates, but have recently found a happy medium between comfort-performance.  

This is the oart that really pisses me off about these things, and I’m reading it in this thread from more people than just you.  For $800+ and a custom boot, nobody should have to constantly tinker like this.  I’m left thinking that these skates are not as custom as they are marketed. 

 

I’ll let you guys know how the rebake goes. 

[flip12 714]

2 hours ago, Superjet said:

This is the oart that really pisses me off about these things, and I’m reading it in this thread from more people than just you.  For $800+ and a custom boot, nobody should have to constantly tinker like this.  I’m left thinking that these skates are not as custom as they are marketed. 

 

I’ll let you guys know how the rebake goes. 

It’s a tradeoff: highly moldable skates means you can set minor details in stone. It’s a more responsive skate so it does more literally what you tell it to. The problem is learning the skates’ language so you know how to communicate with your own pair and thereby get it to do what you want.

[VegasHockey 1280]

If Westside did the scan and fitting I dont think they would "mess up" on baking them. They do enough True skates that they know what they are doing, especially if the first pair was not built quite right. However, we are mostly all human and there is always a margin for error 😉 

Full disclosure, my first pair of True skates did not fit as I expected. Now, it's debatable if they fit right or wrong, as that could be considered objective, but for MY needs and how I prefer MY skates to fit they had too much volume. The first pair of skates I tried using the red insoles to take up the extra volume, toe inserts to make them snugger in the toe box, and switched to thicker tongues. Despite the changes, they still felt "sloppy" even though they were very comfortable. 

This led to True making me a second pair.

The second pair were closer in proper fit, but still not exactly perfect. I personally had to make adjustments to the facing of the skates and add some foams to get them to fit the way I wanted. As mentioned, I did this myself, it obviously helps that I own a shop and also have experience customizing skates, but the work I did is far more involved than the typical consumer would put into a pair of skates. I am sure many would have considered the first or second pair to be a good fit, but for my personal preferences they didn't fit right and felt sloppy. 

Our shop does a lot of fitting for players requesting True skates. To be completely honest, there are times that the fit is not exactly spot on, but usually its pretty close. The most difficult players to fit are the ones coming from a skate like the Mako which has zero negative space and fit incredibly close to the foot. Those players usually complain about the fit, weight, or that the skates feel bulky. Usually, we make modifications to the skates for the customer if its easy enough to adjust. Cutting back the facing is relatively easy on the True skates compared to modifying other one-piece skates like the AS1. 

Have you talked to Westside? Baking them and using ratchet clamps will surely help the fit, and adding red insoles will take up the volume. You can even use a custom insole if you want, we have some players that prefer to do such as they prefer the CCM footbeds, Bauer Speed Plate or Super Feet. Usually, these players have a very high arch that needs more support than the skate can provide.