VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[VegasHockey 1280]

19 minutes ago, flip12 said:

Totally agree. I don’t know anyone with Bauer or CCM customs, but from reading on here I’ve come across some complaints reminiscent of those against True customs.

I had one player who went from CCM custom skates, to TRUE custom skates, and finally ended in a Bauer retail Vapor 2X Pro skate which he said fit him best. 

I think that's the main problem with custom skates is the manufacturer has an opinion of what really is defined and how the skate should fit, but the customer, for better or worse, has their own opinion. A scan can only tell you the foot shape, it doesn't account for how the player prefers the skate to fit and such. 

It's all very tricky.

Not to mention without having direct interaction with the customer there have to be some decisions the manufacturer has to make. Sometimes those decisions turn out good and other times the customer doesn't like those decisions. 

I read too much about people thinking custom skates are the holy grail and for the price the end result should be X and Y. No one is taking into consideration that all of these offerings and the technology behind them are fairly new to the hockey market. I consider all of this an alpha or beta phase. 

 

[jvincig01 13]

7 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

I had one player who went from CCM custom skates, to TRUE custom skates, and finally ended in a Bauer retail Vapor 2X Pro skate which he said fit him best. 

I think that's the main problem with custom skates is the manufacturer has an opinion of what really is defined and how the skate should fit, but the customer, for better or worse, has their own opinion. A scan can only tell you the foot shape, it doesn't account for how the player prefers the skate to fit and such. 

It's all very tricky.

Not to mention without having direct interaction with the customer there have to be some decisions the manufacturer has to make. Sometimes those decisions turn out good and other times the customer doesn't like those decisions. 

I read too much about people thinking custom skates are the holy grail and for the price the end result should be X and Y. No one is taking into consideration that all of these offerings and the technology behind them are fairly new to the hockey market. I consider all of this an alpha or beta phase. 

 

I had True's for exactly 12 months and bought Vapor 2x Pro's last night. The first pair the liner separated from the inside so True made me a new pair. The new pair has had a hell of a time keeping rivets. A friend of mine is an equipment manager for a minor league team and he said they have to replace rivets all the time because the bedding of the True doesn't allow the rivets to bite into the material. We put copper in a few spots to help with the problem.

However, I switched to stock/off the shelf Bauer Vapor 2x Pro for a completely different reason. Basically, my ankle bone has additional bone growth on it from taking two slapshots on it over the years. First problem with True, and I know this is specific to me, is the padding isn't soft enough. The inside forms nicely to my foot but it irritates my inside ankle bone. Second reason, the eyelet pattern is very close to the ankle bone in my case. My ankle almost sits on the eyelet. 

Soooo.... I went to Bauer because the asymmetrical design allows my weird ankle bone to sit right in a bed of memory foam. And to be honest, they fit pretty damn good for not being custom. 

I will always recommend True, they are great skates. However, I believe most of us on here might be overbuying when it comes to skates... me included. 

Total side note, but I notice a lot of people on here and in product reviews always say they play advanced level, grew up on the east coast, play 5x a week and are on the ice 5 hours a day. Nobody ever admits they play mid-level beer league once a week. We are all all-stars I guess.

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, jvincig01 said:

I had True's for exactly 12 months and bought Vapor 2x Pro's last night. The first pair the liner separated from the inside so True made me a new pair. The new pair has had a hell of a time keeping rivets. A friend of mine is an equipment manager for a minor league team and he said they have to replace rivets all the time because the bedding of the True doesn't allow the rivets to bite into the material. We put copper in a few spots to help with the problem.

However, I switched to stock/off the shelf Bauer Vapor 2x Pro for a completely different reason. Basically, my ankle bone has additional bone growth on it from taking two slapshots on it over the years. First problem with True, and I know this is specific to me, is the padding isn't soft enough. The inside forms nicely to my foot but it irritates my inside ankle bone. Second reason, the eyelet pattern is very close to the ankle bone in my case. My ankle almost sits on the eyelet. 

Soooo.... I went to Bauer because the asymmetrical design allows my weird ankle bone to sit right in a bed of memory foam. And to be honest, they fit pretty damn good for not being custom. 

I will always recommend True, they are great skates. However, I believe most of us on here might be overbuying when it comes to skates... me included. 

Total side note, but I notice a lot of people on here and in product reviews always say they play advanced level, grew up on the east coast, play 5x a week and are on the ice 5 hours a day. Nobody ever admits they play mid-level beer league once a week. We are all all-stars I guess.

Woah woah woah. I don't know about you but I was drafted first overall in my fantasy league. 🤪

 

[z1ggy 81]

8 hours ago, jvincig01 said:

I had True's for exactly 12 months and bought Vapor 2x Pro's last night. The first pair the liner separated from the inside so True made me a new pair. The new pair has had a hell of a time keeping rivets. A friend of mine is an equipment manager for a minor league team and he said they have to replace rivets all the time because the bedding of the True doesn't allow the rivets to bite into the material. We put copper in a few spots to help with the problem.

However, I switched to stock/off the shelf Bauer Vapor 2x Pro for a completely different reason. Basically, my ankle bone has additional bone growth on it from taking two slapshots on it over the years. First problem with True, and I know this is specific to me, is the padding isn't soft enough. The inside forms nicely to my foot but it irritates my inside ankle bone. Second reason, the eyelet pattern is very close to the ankle bone in my case. My ankle almost sits on the eyelet. 

Soooo.... I went to Bauer because the asymmetrical design allows my weird ankle bone to sit right in a bed of memory foam. And to be honest, they fit pretty damn good for not being custom. 

I will always recommend True, they are great skates. However, I believe most of us on here might be overbuying when it comes to skates... me included. 

Total side note, but I notice a lot of people on here and in product reviews always say they play advanced level, grew up on the east coast, play 5x a week and are on the ice 5 hours a day. Nobody ever admits they play mid-level beer league once a week. We are all all-stars I guess.

I think most ppl here recommend going retail if they fit really well. For me... I've tried every skate that's come out and the only thing that came close was Jetspeed. Even then, My FT2 aren't perfect but were the best of all retail so I got them, plus I ordered True's because I still want a better fit. I was sized up and my right foot was like an 8.75 and my left was like 8.6. In almost all skates I either have to have crushing foot pain, or a sloppy toe/heel area. Chose 9's because I didn't want crushing foot pain.

 

Has almost nothing to do with my skill level and how much I play, too. I want to play to the fullest of whatever skill I have, regardless if I'm on the ice with guys who played D1 puck or some random joe who can't even skate. I feel like skates are really the only thing I'd spend big bucks on. Padding, sticks... all that isn't making any difference for me really if I'm not skating.

[jvincig01 13]

34 minutes ago, z1ggy said:

I think most ppl here recommend going retail if they fit really well. For me... I've tried every skate that's come out and the only thing that came close was Jetspeed. Even then, My FT2 aren't perfect but were the best of all retail so I got them, plus I ordered True's because I still want a better fit. I was sized up and my right foot was like an 8.75 and my left was like 8.6. In almost all skates I either have to have crushing foot pain, or a sloppy toe/heel area. Chose 9's because I didn't want crushing foot pain.

 

Has almost nothing to do with my skill level and how much I play, too. I want to play to the fullest of whatever skill I have, regardless if I'm on the ice with guys who played D1 puck or some random joe who can't even skate. I feel like skates are really the only thing I'd spend big bucks on. Padding, sticks... all that isn't making any difference for me really if I'm not skating.

Do you think that players somewhat new to the sport have unrealistic expectations when it comes to skate comfort? You know, like people freaking out over quarter size differences and going custom when that's pretty normal and nothing a foam insert wouldn't solve?  Or a little bit of foot pain when trying new skates out of the box? When I tired on the 2x Pro I had to think back to what it felt like getting new skates and most importantly, would they break in. The answer was yes, heat em and skate a few times, they should adjust just fine. 

I get there are people with weird feet. I consider myself that kind of person as I had to wear Graf's for a long time. However, all skate manufacturers have come a long way. 

Ok, now if you will excuse me, I need to get back to making my highlight reel to send to other local beer leagues.

[Hills 712]

1 hour ago, jvincig01 said:

Do you think that players somewhat new to the sport have unrealistic expectations when it comes to skate comfort? You know, like people freaking out over quarter size differences and going custom when that's pretty normal and nothing a foam insert wouldn't solve?  Or a little bit of foot pain when trying new skates out of the box? When I tired on the 2x Pro I had to think back to what it felt like getting new skates and most importantly, would they break in. The answer was yes, heat em and skate a few times, they should adjust just fine. 

I get there are people with weird feet. I consider myself that kind of person as I had to wear Graf's for a long time. However, all skate manufacturers have come a long way. 

Ok, now if you will excuse me, I need to get back to making my highlight reel to send to other local beer leagues.

Some people definitely have unrealistic expectations, but I always tell them if your feet are numb when while you skate or you can't stand on them for a bit after you skate something is wrong.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

My story is really simple. I tried just about every model skate (in my price range) that was available at the time spending easily $1500+ and making back only a fraction of that selling them used. I finally said screw it and bought OG Makos and bam... no more pain. 

Then when I switched to goalie I started with Bauer Reactor goalie skates and had the same pre-Mako pain again. Since there was no goalie Mako I decided I wasn’t going through the process all over again and went straight to VH. Still the best hockey equipment decision I’ve ever made.

[boo10 323]

2 hours ago, jvincig01 said:

Do you think that players somewhat new to the sport have unrealistic expectations when it comes to skate comfort? You know, like people freaking out over quarter size differences and going custom when that's pretty normal and nothing a foam insert wouldn't solve?  Or a little bit of foot pain when trying new skates out of the box? When I tired on the 2x Pro I had to think back to what it felt like getting new skates and most importantly, would they break in. The answer was yes, heat em and skate a few times, they should adjust just fine. 

I get there are people with weird feet. I consider myself that kind of person as I had to wear Graf's for a long time. However, all skate manufacturers have come a long way. 

Ok, now if you will excuse me, I need to get back to making my highlight reel to send to other local beer leagues.

I can't speak for new players, but as someone who's been playing hockey for 43 years, I find modern skates don't fit me well.  I have tried just about everything except for Nexus because they are huge.  Compare that with the fact that up until the mid-2000's I skated in many different models of skate and never had a single fit issue.  The last skates that fit me well were my Micron Mega 10-90's, which I wore for 15 years before they started to fall apart.

[jvincig01 13]

Today I went out with my brand new Bauer's. Note that I usually play with a 3 degree pitch as I like to be on my toes. I wanted to try what a stock skate blade would feel like so I left them in.... turns out it was horrible for me as I am too far on my heels.

Fortunately, I had extra steel with me that has forward pitch so I swapped in at the rink. I felt pretty good until i got a bit too confident even though I wasn't quite used to the boot and ended up eating $hit. Now mind you I am like every player on here who has played 25+ years, an absolute beast on skates, and am in the international beer league hall of fame. However, I was humbled by new skates. Guess I am not Crosby after all. I will go back to icing my elbow now. Damn it hurts.

[jvincig01 13]

Can someone tell me which laces come with True skates? I absolutely love them.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

49 minutes ago, jvincig01 said:

Can someone tell me which laces come with True skates? I absolutely love them.

I'd say they are most similar to the XL2000 molded tip. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

9 hours ago, z1ggy said:

I think most ppl here recommend going retail if they fit really well. For me... I've tried every skate that's come out and the only thing that came close was Jetspeed. Even then, My FT2 aren't perfect but were the best of all retail so I got them, plus I ordered True's because I still want a better fit. I was sized up and my right foot was like an 8.75 and my left was like 8.6. In almost all skates I either have to have crushing foot pain, or a sloppy toe/heel area. Chose 9's because I didn't want crushing foot pain.

 

Has almost nothing to do with my skill level and how much I play, too. I want to play to the fullest of whatever skill I have, regardless if I'm on the ice with guys who played D1 puck or some random joe who can't even skate. I feel like skates are really the only thing I'd spend big bucks on. Padding, sticks... all that isn't making any difference for me really if I'm not skating.

This is actually a problem that CCM and Bauer are specifically trying to fix. Players getting skates that are too stiff for them and their skating ability because they either have the money to spend or think that buying a more expensive skate will either last longer or provide better performance. The most expensive skate is never going to be the best option for most people. Modern skates are way too stiff for a lot of players and unless you are a very big guy or you skate 7+ hours a week its likely that choosing the most expensive skate is actually hampering your abilities. 

CCM is now publishing the flex rating of their skates and has a ton of education for retailers attempting to educate them to not always push the top tier skate. Bauer is also doing the same this with Bauer University. 

I don't lump TRUE into this specifically because their skates aren't designed in the same manner as Bauer and CCM. I have never had a player tell me their TRUE skates don't allow them enough forward flexion and such. The only complaint I heard more than a few times was the skates are heavier than the players current skate. My reply to them has been "don't skip leg day" because there are plenty of players in high level hockey that have no problem with the weight of the TRUE skates. While they may be heavier than retail skates, take any Bauer or CCM with a pro specification and you will see the weight difference is negligible at best. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

I'd say they are most similar to the XL2000 molded tip. 

Agreed, like these:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/888/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=XL+2000+Laces

[mojo122 535]

1 hour ago, Nicholas G said:

 CCM is now publishing the flex rating of their skates and has a ton of education for retailers attempting to educate them to not always push the top tier skate. Bauer is also doing the same this with Bauer University. 

The goal of most retailers is not to fit you to level of one's play and what is best, but rather to put you or your child in the most expensive skate you willing to pay for.

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, mojo122 said:

The goal of most retailers is not to fit you to level of one's play and what is best, but rather to put you or your child in the most expensive skate you willing to pay for.

I understand that, I own stores, but my stores don't do this. In fact, we spend a majority of our time talking people out of buying top-level skates as it's a huge waste of money for a majority of players. 

[z1ggy 81]

16 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

This is actually a problem that CCM and Bauer are specifically trying to fix. Players getting skates that are too stiff for them and their skating ability because they either have the money to spend or think that buying a more expensive skate will either last longer or provide better performance. The most expensive skate is never going to be the best option for most people. Modern skates are way too stiff for a lot of players and unless you are a very big guy or you skate 7+ hours a week its likely that choosing the most expensive skate is actually hampering your abilities. 

CCM is now publishing the flex rating of their skates and has a ton of education for retailers attempting to educate them to not always push the top tier skate. Bauer is also doing the same this with Bauer University. 

I don't lump TRUE into this specifically because their skates aren't designed in the same manner as Bauer and CCM. I have never had a player tell me their TRUE skates don't allow them enough forward flexion and such. The only complaint I heard more than a few times was the skates are heavier than the players current skate. My reply to them has been "don't skip leg day" because there are plenty of players in high level hockey that have no problem with the weight of the TRUE skates. While they may be heavier than retail skates, take any Bauer or CCM with a pro specification and you will see the weight difference is negligible at best. 

True that. I don't even lace the top eyelet of my FT2's. But... I'm about 195lb and I skate pretty hard in mine. I like the overall stiffness of the boot, although I would never go stiffer than this.

[Leif 161]

18 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

This is actually a problem that CCM and Bauer are specifically trying to fix. Players getting skates that are too stiff for them and their skating ability because they either have the money to spend or think that buying a more expensive skate will either last longer or provide better performance. The most expensive skate is never going to be the best option for most people. Modern skates are way too stiff for a lot of players and unless you are a very big guy or you skate 7+ hours a week its likely that choosing the most expensive skate is actually hampering your abilities. 

CCM is now publishing the flex rating of their skates and has a ton of education for retailers attempting to educate them to not always push the top tier skate. Bauer is also doing the same this with Bauer University. 

I don't lump TRUE into this specifically because their skates aren't designed in the same manner as Bauer and CCM. I have never had a player tell me their TRUE skates don't allow them enough forward flexion and such. The only complaint I heard more than a few times was the skates are heavier than the players current skate. My reply to them has been "don't skip leg day" because there are plenty of players in high level hockey that have no problem with the weight of the TRUE skates. While they may be heavier than retail skates, take any Bauer or CCM with a pro specification and you will see the weight difference is negligible at best. 

I’m 155 lb and 5’11” so fairly light. I changed up from mid range skates to Bauer Custom 2s Pro and love them. I can skate for three hours with no pain. I’ve never had lace bite. And I feel the ice better. I’ve been learning to skate for three years, and skate 6+ hours a week including 3-4 hours hockey. I guess I should try not using the top eyelets and see what happens. 

My LHS told me that they make less profit on high end skates, and they don’t keep them in stock because they will lose money when the next model is introduced. I thnk that is why they like customs. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

9 hours ago, Leif said:

I’m 155 lb and 5’11” so fairly light. I changed up from mid range skates to Bauer Custom 2s Pro and love them. I can skate for three hours with no pain. I’ve never had lace bite. And I feel the ice better. I’ve been learning to skate for three years, and skate 6+ hours a week including 3-4 hours hockey. I guess I should try not using the top eyelets and see what happens. 

My LHS told me that they make less profit on high end skates, and they don’t keep them in stock because they will lose money when the next model is introduced. I thnk that is why they like customs. 

There is still decent margin in top end skates but it seems silly to stock a $900 retail skate when you can go full custom for $200 more. Ya know? 

[asgoodasdead 74]

On 8/29/2019 at 12:38 AM, jvincig01 said:

I had True's for exactly 12 months and bought Vapor 2x Pro's last night. The first pair the liner separated from the inside so True made me a new pair. The new pair has had a hell of a time keeping rivets. A friend of mine is an equipment manager for a minor league team and he said they have to replace rivets all the time because the bedding of the True doesn't allow the rivets to bite into the material. We put copper in a few spots to help with the problem.

However, I switched to stock/off the shelf Bauer Vapor 2x Pro for a completely different reason. Basically, my ankle bone has additional bone growth on it from taking two slapshots on it over the years. First problem with True, and I know this is specific to me, is the padding isn't soft enough. The inside forms nicely to my foot but it irritates my inside ankle bone. Second reason, the eyelet pattern is very close to the ankle bone in my case. My ankle almost sits on the eyelet. 

Soooo.... I went to Bauer because the asymmetrical design allows my weird ankle bone to sit right in a bed of memory foam. And to be honest, they fit pretty damn good for not being custom. 

I will always recommend True, they are great skates. However, I believe most of us on here might be overbuying when it comes to skates... me included. 

Total side note, but I notice a lot of people on here and in product reviews always say they play advanced level, grew up on the east coast, play 5x a week and are on the ice 5 hours a day. Nobody ever admits they play mid-level beer league once a week. We are all all-stars I guess.

hey, i play beer league TWICE a week 😁 but i wear $700 off the shelf skates i picked up for $300. can't justify spending a grand on skates for beer league

[IPv6Freely 2093]

1 hour ago, asgoodasdead said:

hey, i play beer league TWICE a week 😁 but i wear $700 off the shelf skates i picked up for $300. can't justify spending a grand on skates for beer league

I wouldn’t expect everyone to be able to. But I can. 

[BenBreeg 493]

5 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I wouldn’t expect everyone to be able to. But I can. 

Rationalization is a beautiful thing.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

3 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

Rationalization is a beautiful thing.

Sorry, what?

[Leif 161]

24 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I wouldn’t expect everyone to be able to. But I can. 

Me too. Not suffering foot pain is worth the money. 

[jvincig01 13]

15 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

There is still decent margin in top end skates but it seems silly to stock a $900 retail skate when you can go full custom for $200 more. Ya know? 

True... but what about going from $600  (Bauer 2x) to $1100? That’s quite a jump. Let’s not forget $200 is still a good amount of money going from 2x Pro to Custom. My problem with Custom is I was sort of hoping the skate fit well when it arrived. However, on my True’s I ended up adding padding on the toe and tweaking them anyway. Going with stock you know exactly what you’re buying and I would argue  that the consistency in build quality is exactly the same. 

The sore feet I have with breaking in skates is nothing like it was 20 years ago... not even close. I would always recommend buying something off the shelf that is comfortable. Save yourself the money and put it toward skating lessons. 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

12 minutes ago, jvincig01 said:

True... but what about going from $600  (Bauer 2x) to $1100? That’s quite a jump. Let’s not forget $200 is still a good amount of money going from 2x Pro to Custom. My problem with Custom is I was sort of hoping the skate fit well when it arrived. However, on my True’s I ended up adding padding on the toe and tweaking them anyway. Going with stock you know exactly what you’re buying and I would argue  that the consistency in build quality is exactly the same. 

The sore feet I have with breaking in skates is nothing like it was 20 years ago... not even close. I would always recommend buying something off the shelf that is comfortable. Save yourself the money and put it toward skating lessons. 

I would recommend that too unless that won’t work for you.