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VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

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3 minutes ago, Miller55 said:

If you're just trying to make a point, then point taken. The thing is, True did used to allow you to purchase boots only and True had pretty much made their reputation in skates based on customization, so I do think it has given people a different expectation for what True will do to help a customer customize their skates above what Bauer out CCM would do. That said, they obviously have other calculations to make, so I understand making you buy the holders even if you don't want them mounted. 

If you're sincerely asking, my guess is that they might do it for pros but I doubt they would do it for the avg. Joe. I used to get undrilled Mission ice boots years ago. They came through a teammate, but I definitely wasn't the only one. I would imagine that most people who played roller remember undrilled Mission flyweights or amp 2 carbons with eframes

Not trying to make any point at all all. I have not ordered CCM or Bauer for 10 years so I do not know. As for True selling Boot only well not installed yes I do know that. I have sold a few pairs. 

But yes I was simply asking if Bauer and CCM did it.

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36 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Not trying to make any point at all all. I have not ordered CCM or Bauer for 10 years so I do not know. As for True selling Boot only well not installed yes I do know that. I have sold a few pairs. 

But yes I was simply asking if Bauer and CCM did it.

Yeah it's hard to tell on the internet. I have never seen such a thing. There was a shop on the island that would mount roller chassis to an ice boot and they would keep the holders and runner in exchange for the labor. In essence, to didn't pay a fee for the mount, just the ice skates and chassis. Nowadays it's not a great deal, but 17-18 years ago when reselling a holder was a lot harder, it was more worth it

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5 minutes ago, Miller55 said:

Yeah it's hard to tell on the internet. I have never seen such a thing. There was a shop on the island that would mount roller chassis to an ice boot and they would keep the holders and runner in exchange for the labor. In essence, to didn't pay a fee for the mount, just the ice skates and chassis. Nowadays it's not a great deal, but 17-18 years ago when reselling a holder was a lot harder, it was more worth it

100% I still do that sometimes depending on what it is. 

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20 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Can't really compare true to CCM or Bauer.  The fit and feel is completely diff.  I think most people will agree you either love true or you don't. I haven't met someone who was just meh about them. 

Their claim to fame was the custom aspect and most people bought them because they had a hard time finding retail skates that fit well. Does that mean that the retail version is for the 90% that generally don't have a problem fitting into retail skates? I ask because I'm in the market for new skates and I've always had a problem finding skates that fit well.

I guess another way to put it is would a previous custom skate person be able to get a good fit with the retail version?

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1 hour ago, calixguy18 said:

Their claim to fame was the custom aspect and most people bought them because they had a hard time finding retail skates that fit well. Does that mean that the retail version is for the 90% that generally don't have a problem fitting into retail skates? I ask because I'm in the market for new skates and I've always had a problem finding skates that fit well.

I guess another way to put it is would a previous custom skate person be able to get a good fit with the retail version?

I have TRUE custom skates but was also able to fit in a TF9 retail skate as well. They are very thermoformable and adapt well to foot shape. 

Note: I dont have any specific foot issues and can fit into most retail Bauer and CCM skates. 

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2 hours ago, calixguy18 said:

Their claim to fame was the custom aspect and most people bought them because they had a hard time finding retail skates that fit well. Does that mean that the retail version is for the 90% that generally don't have a problem fitting into retail skates? I ask because I'm in the market for new skates and I've always had a problem finding skates that fit well.

I guess another way to put it is would a previous custom skate person be able to get a good fit with the retail version?

Maybe. Some will and some won't, and it remains to be seen just what percentage are able to fit the retails. They based the last for the True retail skates on the data collected from all of the custom scans. That means that there is definitely some percentage of previous custom wearers that will fit retail. Additionally, they will mold to your feet, so that increases the amount of people that will do ok with retail. The question is whether you are one of the folks who will fit retail Trues despite usually having a hard time fitting retail skates. The only way to answer is to try them on and see if they can work for you. But there is definitely a possibility that you will be fine with the retails

Edited by Miller55

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I would assume they would fit at LEAST the same amount of people that fit into retail Bauer or ccm and then some, since they are way more thermoformable than CCM and Bauer. 

If you don't have issues fitting in retail skates it'll be pretty much the "feel" that will get you to say yes or no. True boots are extremely stiff, however, they still allow good forward flexion.  and of course they are so comfy!

Imo Bauer and CCM the stiffness of the boot is the same throughout the quarter package which for me feels like you still need to break them in even after baking. True skates require no break in time. Yes, you need to get used to how they feel in general vs CCM and Bauer but there is definitely no breaking in/ hot spot/ painful periods

 

Edited by Sniper9

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I feel like they will be quite similar to the Mako where the crazy level of thermoformability will make them fit a lot of different foot shapes. Still not for everyone, but still a pretty wide variety of people.

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Howdy,

8 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

I would assume they would fit at LEAST the same amount of people that fit into retail Bauer or ccm and then some, since they are way more thermoformable than CCM and Bauer. 

If you don't have issues fitting in retail skates it'll be pretty much the "feel" that will get you to say yes or no. True boots are extremely stiff, however, they still allow good forward flexion.  and of course they are so comfy!

Imo Bauer and CCM the stiffness of the boot is the same throughout the quarter package which for me feels like you still need to break them in even after baking. True skates require no break in time. Yes, you need to get used to how they feel in general vs CCM and Bauer but there is definitely no breaking in/ hot spot/ painful periods

 


Retail Bauer and CCM have 3 or so completely different footshapes though.

I said this in the retail thread (I can't figure out how to quote you and reply there), but it would be really great if the True scanner would tell you how good a fit the retail version would be to your footshape.

Hopefully you can at least bake the retail skates once to check the actual fit without rendering them unreturnable.

Mark

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9 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

I would assume they would fit at LEAST the same amount of people that fit into retail Bauer or ccm and then some, since they are way more thermoformable than CCM and Bauer. 

If you don't have issues fitting in retail skates it'll be pretty much the "feel" that will get you to say yes or no. True boots are extremely stiff, however, they still allow good forward flexion.  and of course they are so comfy!

Imo Bauer and CCM the stiffness of the boot is the same throughout the quarter package which for me feels like you still need to break them in even after baking. True skates require no break in time. Yes, you need to get used to how they feel in general vs CCM and Bauer but there is definitely no breaking in/ hot spot/ painful periods

 

Yeah I would definitely assume they will fit even more people than typical retail skates. The question is more for those players who wore True custom. How many of them will be able to hop into the TF9 or 7 and be fine. I imagine there's going to be a good chunk. 

 

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50 minutes ago, Miller55 said:

Yeah I would definitely assume they will fit even more people than typical retail skates. The question is more for those players who wore True custom. How many of them will be able to hop into the TF9 or 7 and be fine. I imagine there's going to be a good chunk. 

 

Part of the reason why TRUE decided to release a retail skate was them noticing many players didnt even need a custom skate. Therefore releasing a retail model with the same high end specification as the custom will help decrease the labor overhead for making custom skate. This was especially true for younger players who have not developed any major foot issues or injuries. 

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Absolutely. It has to be worth it for them, otherwise they're competing with their own more expensive product, which makes no sense. But once you factor in handmade vs factory made skates, it's a no brainer. Saves a lot of time and money for True and saves for the customer as well. I'm hoping some of the quality issues will also go away with the retails. 

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1 hour ago, Miller55 said:

Yeah I would definitely assume they will fit even more people than typical retail skates. The question is more for those players who wore True custom. How many of them will be able to hop into the TF9 or 7 and be fine. I imagine there's going to be a good chunk. 

 

Yep, if I continue hockey I’m definitely going to be trying a retail model. 

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I'm curious about how people will go about trying these on in store.  The True customs that were made for me would not even let me put my foot in them without baking.  You also have to be very careful not to rip the liner.  If the TF9 and TF7 have similar characteristics to the Pro Custom, I could definitely see some skates being damaged by people just trying them on.

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24 minutes ago, boo10 said:

I'm curious about how people will go about trying these on in store.  The True customs that were made for me would not even let me put my foot in them without baking.  You also have to be very careful not to rip the liner.  If the TF9 and TF7 have similar characteristics to the Pro Custom, I could definitely see some skates being damaged by people just trying them on.

Probably the same as the Mako, they'll have to bake them. 

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29 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Probably the same as the Mako, they'll have to bake them. 

I never tried on Makos, did they have the same issue with liner tears if you didn't use a shoehorn?

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3 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

Part of the reason why TRUE decided to release a retail skate was them noticing many players didnt even need a custom skate. Therefore releasing a retail model with the same high end specification as the custom will help decrease the labor overhead for making custom skate. This was especially true for younger players who have not developed any major foot issues or injuries. 

I get what you're saying but it seems to me most people who turned to True custom skates in the first place were because they couldn't fit into retail skates of any brand. I can't imagine a regular joe who fits Bauer retails fine deciding to try True customs just for the heck of it.

It seems to me they just want to have a skate(s) in the retail segment (which is fine). Is it safe to say it's just a competitor to CCM and Bauer and is not better or worse, just different? Being more thermoformable can only go so far and can't compensate for having 3 different boot shapes in the case of Bauer, could it?

 

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1 hour ago, boo10 said:

I never tried on Makos, did they have the same issue with liner tears if you didn't use a shoehorn?

Nope. 

14 minutes ago, calixguy18 said:

Being more thermoformable can only go so far and can't compensate for having 3 different boot shapes in the case of Bauer, could it?

Actually, yes. Or, at least that was definitely the case for me. Maybe my foot was just the right shape for the Mako, but those things were so comfortable. If True retail skates are as thermoformable as the Mako was, I won't need to go custom (speaking as somebody who wears custom VH right now).

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I tried on all of the Bauer and CCM skate lines and even demoed some at Modsquad events. None of them fit my feet as well as Makos. Makos in D were still too narrow for my forefoot even after baking, but EE's are great. I definitely hope the True retail skates fit similar to Mako.

If the TF7 is as responsive to heat as Makos none of the CCM and Bauer skates can really compare for value at it's price level. The next cheapest one piece boot in stores would be the CCM FT490 and that's almost twice the price of the TF7 and I don't think those are as responsive to heat as True's or Makos (although I haven't had those baked on my feet). The TF9 is also much cheaper than the top CCM and Bauer retail skates; so the value proposition seems really good. 

When my Mako II stockpile gets low, I'll try on all the latest models of all brands, but the True's definitely seem the most Mako-like. Before the retail models were released I was resigned to the fact that I might have to shell out for customs, but if the retail True's work then I'll be happy to save the coin. 

Edited by althoma1
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I also want to point out that there has been a lot of mentioning of the Mako, especially by me. But, for good reason. Some of us are hoping the TF7/TF9 can fill the gap that was opened up when the Mako was discontinued. Some of us had finally found a skate we loved.

I don't WANT to buy custom skates. I truly envy those that don't need to. The Mako is still to this day the only retail skate I've ever worn that didn't hurt. 

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35 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Nope. 

Actually, yes. Or, at least that was definitely the case for me. Maybe my foot was just the right shape for the Mako, but those things were so comfortable. If True retail skates are as thermoformable as the Mako was, I won't need to go custom (speaking as somebody who wears custom VH right now).

Do you have normal volume feet? 

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1 hour ago, calixguy18 said:

I get what you're saying but it seems to me most people who turned to True custom skates in the first place were because they couldn't fit into retail skates of any brand. I can't imagine a regular joe who fits Bauer retails fine deciding to try True customs just for the heck of it.

It seems to me they just want to have a skate(s) in the retail segment (which is fine). Is it safe to say it's just a competitor to CCM and Bauer and is not better or worse, just different? Being more thermoformable can only go so far and can't compensate for having 3 different boot shapes in the case of Bauer, could it?

 

I don't agree that most people go to True because they can't fit retail. I looked into it before covid but just never got around to scheduling a scan. I fit retail Supremes very well. No pain, no pressure, no issues with durability, minimal negative space. I'm happy with them, but they could definitely be more comfortable. I heard Trues were very comfortable and I was interested. 

Obviously it is officially competing with Bauer and CCM, but in reality they are offering something very different. A skate that molds to wrap your foot like True (assuming it's like the mako or better) is not something that either Bauer out CCM offer. Also, offering a premium skate at 600$ is not something they do at all. 

Practically speaking, Bauer bought Easton, so if they see that the True retail sell, in theory they can always remake a mako type skate to complete with true retail since they own the tech.

Lot of good points made. I think a lot of us are going on the assumption that these retails will be as thermoformable as the customs and the Makos. I have very little doubt that that will be the case, but it is still an assumption.

I just wonder how stiff the TF7s will get after baking and if it will be comparable to a carbon boot. What are other fiberglass boots? Trying to recall if I ever used a pair

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51 minutes ago, calixguy18 said:

Do you have normal volume feet? 

Yep, nothing weird about my feet at all. 

17 minutes ago, Miller55 said:

I don't agree that most people go to True because they can't fit retail. 

Lot of good points made. I think a lot of us are going on the assumption that these retails will be as thermoformable as the customs and the Makos. I have very little doubt that that will be the case, but it is still an assumption.

It's definitely why I did. Why do you not agree?

And yes, it's an assumption. Actually, it's not even an assumption. It's just a hope. 

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