More CCM Eyelet woe

[colins 246]

 

Me again and another case of eyelets problems. Three month old CCM Jetspeed Control (Source for Sports SMU based off FT380 with upgrades - $500 CDN skate). Eyelet popped out. Took it to a repair shop, they replaced the missing eyelet plus two others that were damaged and about to give out. Unfortunately, the repair hasn't held up, the hole is stretched and the replacement eyelet is about to pop.

The skates were baked once and to the recommended temperature for the recommended duration. Laces were pulled away from the skate not straight up when tightening after baking. Not our first rodeo - zero percent chance the damage was due to improper heating.

You can see other eyelets are flaking (paint coming off and corroding) after just 3 months. Skates are always hung up to dry after every use.

CCM - please change your eyelets. CCM skates are great, my son tried to go Vapors X900s (previously had first gen Jetspeeds that also had eyelet issues) but the fit just doesn't work for him. The Jetspeeds fit perfect, if only the eyelets didn't fail so quick! The brass eyelets at the top and bottom hold up great, even after a full season of use on his original Jetspeeds - the CCM stamped/painted eyelets are weak and do not hold up.

My son's feet sweat a lot. But I'm sure he's not the only one - the CCM eyelets simply can't hold up to normal use on his feet.

I've filed a warranty claim. Unfortunately, until the eyelet material changes I feel this is going to just reoccur.

The failed repair:

 

colins

Edited September 19, 2018 by colins
Corrected typo

[VegasHockey 1280]

It's likely they will replace the skates, though they might insinuate the issue is due to improper baking. In my experience anytime they see an eyelet like this that is the first response I see from CCM or Bauer. Its actually a pretty easy fix to sew more material there to strengthen it or to use an oversized eyelet. 

[colins 246]

1 hour ago, Nicholas G said:

It's likely they will replace the skates, though they might insinuate the issue is due to improper baking. In my experience anytime they see an eyelet like this that is the first response I see from CCM or Bauer. Its actually a pretty easy fix to sew more material there to strengthen it or to use an oversized eyelet. 

 

Yes, that's what we did with his Jetspeeds (add extra material). You can see how his sweat eats away the stamped/painted eyelets, while the stronger brass eyelets hold up fine:

 

colins

Edited September 20, 2018 by colins
brass not bronze

[colins 246]

 

Warranty claim has been denied. Skates were ordered online May 13th, received around May 20th. Eyelet popped out just a week or two after the 90 day warranty period (late August). We tried a repair on our own dime (from Doiron Sports Excellence - Saint John NB) but that failed too so  I submitted a warranty claim to see if CCM could help out. Skates are less than 4 months old.

 

 

CCM has a problem with these eyelets for anyone that has sweaty feet. My son's feet (hyperhydrosis - extremely sweaty) caused them to fail in 3 months. Average person would no doubt get more use from them, I guess depending on how acidic your sweat is and how much volume of sweat your feet produce. We haven't found a maintenance strategy to deal with the problem, his skates are dried / hung up after every session, never left in the bag wet.

Boot and runner and steel are all still in practically brand new shape after 15 weeks use - but if you can't lace them you can't use them.

 

@BelangerJS - I don't know what your failure rate is at the factory, maybe cases like mine are rare and not worth pursuing from a business perspective.

However, if the failure rate is a concern and CCM is trying to address it, I have here a candidate for testing any trial fixes that you can suggest, and provide you some great real world use case. Hyperhydrosis affects an estimated 2-3% of the population, and I imagine the vast majority of players produce ample amounts of sweat per hour to strain these particular eyelets towards failure, it's just a matter of how long before they fail once exposed to sweat.

Off to buy more skates... <sigh>

 

colins

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by colins

[colins 246]

 

My next move is to probably get him a new pair so I can take these somewhere else for more repairs (he skates every day with his team so can't have any downtime), and I'm considering drilling out all the CCM stamped/painted eyelets and replacing with Blademaster #65 brass eyelets. Is that crazy? Probably still cheaper than going for another skate that fits him as good as the Jetspeeds do.

Anyone ever do a complete eyelet swap on new skates? Is brass the way to go, or overkill? Any downside?

 

colins

Edited September 20, 2018 by colins

[JR Boucicaut 3799]

Done a complete eyelet swap, just haven't ever had it requested on a new set.  It may be costly, but sounds like it's the way to go.

I do have a question, though.  Typically, whenever I would see a CCM eyelet fail, it would get corroded then start chunking off.  However, here's my question - how is it getting to the point that it's stretching the eyerow?  Does he like an extra-tight skate?  Is it a situation that the eyelet condition isn't paid attention to and he continues to use them after they've broken?

Perhaps try lacing outside-in?  Different laces?  It just seems that it is stressing the boot quite a bit.

[colins 246]

26 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Done a complete eyelet swap, just haven't ever had it requested on a new set.  It may be costly, but sounds like it's the way to go.

I do have a question, though.  Typically, whenever I would see a CCM eyelet fail, it would get corroded then start chunking off.  However, here's my question - how is it getting to the point that it's stretching the eyerow?  Does he like an extra-tight skate?  Is it a situation that the eyelet condition isn't paid attention to and he continues to use them after they've broken?

Perhaps try lacing outside-in?  Different laces?  It just seems that it is stressing the boot quite a bit.

 

I didn't get to see this one myself as he's away playing Jr A now and not at home but he does tie them tight. And as soon as corrosion and contact starts deforming the stamped/painted eyelets they break up and pull out. 

The significant stretching looks to me like it came after the eyelet was repaired, and the new eyelet didn't grab enough material (smaller diameter than the CCM eyelet maybe?) and now the replacement eyelet has stretched the hole a lot.

The first two images above are dark but they show the eyelet hole after the original eyelet popped out and before the repair was made - maybe a little bit of stretch there from using them for a practice or two before he realized the eyelet was giving way.

Certainly he doesn't check each individual eyelet before lacing up, that's for sure... and once the failure starts it just takes one tightening/skate on them to begin to mess things up. On his first gen Jetspeeds, just a section of the eyelet cracked off (about 1/4 of the circumference), and after that he tied them up tight and ripped the lace through the boot mid-practice once things started flexing. I wasn't expecting this to happen just over 3 months in on a $500 skate.

Here's a closeup, the missing eyelet on bottom, you can see the two above it are missing paint (corrosion) and the one above the missing one is deformed and on it's way towards failing like the missing one did. This is after just a little more than 12 weeks use. The brass eyelets do not suffer this same issue at all, they retain their shape and are good as new (both on his old first gen Jetspeeds and these new ones).

 

colins

 

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by colins

[JR Boucicaut 3799]

That was my next question; he's playing Junior A at this point.

Perhaps at this point since his feet are not growing, go with custom skates with a reinforced eyerow and ask for the brass eyelets all the way up.  The ones that come from the custom program don't include the stamped eyelets.

Not sure how CCM handles it, but with Bauer, you could choose where you wanted the reinforcement.  I never recommended the entire eyerow done because it makes it harder to wrap, but if he's busting between the top 5, just get that done.

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, colins said:

 

I didn't get to see this one myself as he's away playing Jr A now and not at home but he does tie them tight. And as soon as corrosion and contact starts deforming the stamped/painted eyelets they break up and pull out. 

The significant stretching looks to me like it came after the eyelet was repaired, and the new eyelet didn't grab enough material (smaller diameter than the CCM eyelet maybe?) and now the replacement eyelet has stretched the hole a lot.

The first two images above are dark but they show the eyelet hole after the original eyelet popped out and before the repair was made - maybe a little bit of stretch there from using them for a practice or two before he realized the eyelet was giving way.

Certainly he doesn't check each individual eyelet before lacing up, that's for sure... and once the failure starts it just takes one tightening/skate on them to begin to mess things up. On his first gen Jetspeeds, just a section of the eyelet cracked off (about 1/4 of the circumference), and after that he tied them up tight and ripped the lace through the boot mid-practice once things started flexing. I wasn't expecting this to happen just over 3 months in on a $500 skate.

Here's a closeup, the missing eyelet on bottom, you can see the two above it are missing paint (corrosion) and the one above the missing one is deformed and on it's way towards failing like the missing one did. This is after just a little more than 12 weeks use. The brass eyelets do not suffer this same issue at all, they retain their shape and are good as new (both on his old first gen Jetspeeds and these new ones).

 

colins

 

 

How big of a player is he? It might just be that the boot cannot support him or his skating style. If he is playing high-level Junior A I would imagine him going through a pair of very high end skates each season. 

[colins 246]

2 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

How big of a player is he? It might just be that the boot cannot support him or his skating style. If he is playing high-level Junior A I would imagine him going through a pair of very high end skates each season. 

 

About 5'11 190.

One pair a season I could live with. He only got 3 months out of these.

I'm buying a second pair now, and planning to get more intensive repairs on these so he'll have a spare. I'm going to get my local repair shop to drill out all the stamped eyelets and replace with brass. Should last the season then. Also going to get them to fill in the stretched eyelet hole with some extra reinforcements.

 

colins

[Vet88 674]

The problem started back with Rbk skates and when the CCM name reentered the game they kept using the same shitty eyelets, all to save a fraction of a cent. Even if you don't sweat a lot they will still break down over time, I seriously believe it is planned obsolescence... I am like your son, I sweat a lot and have eaten through a lot of rbk / ccm eyelets. I replaced every stamped eyelet on my Jetspeeds, it's worth the peace of mind and prevention of expensive repairs down the track. And it's simple to rationalise, it's not if they will go but when so why not get it dealt with asap and make the problem go away long term. CCM aren't the only manufacturer with this problem but I believe they are the worst.

[Paddy 11]

I have a dented eyelet on my supertacks. It was apparently a factory defect, i noticed it when i got home with my new skates, before ever hitting the ice.  It's held up though... 

[colins 246]

 

Ok, desperate times call for desperate measures. 

As stated, these 4 month old Jetspeed Control skates were denied a warranty claim. I was about 2-3 weeks outside the 90 day warranty period. So... to salvage a $500 pair of 4 month old skates I'l going for a complete eyelet replacement.

I'll be the first to admit I don't know what I'm doing. But, the plan is to get the garbage CCM stamped aluminium eyelets out, and bring the skates to a reputable repair shop for a complete eyelet replacement, preferably with large brass eyelets as the brass eyelets (top 2 and bottom 1) on these skates hold up exceptionally well compared to the crap CCM stamped ones.

Here's the state of the eyelets after 4 months (a couple of replacements were already done, one repair failed, hence my desperation at this point). Note the misshaped, stretched and dented eyelets - that's phase 1 before they start to move and eventually pop completely out:

Drilling them out (looks sloppy as I'm holding the camera in one hand while drilling.. I was more patient and deliberate on the others):

 

Then some snips to remove the heads and simple push the remaining eyelet out through the inside of the skate:

 

All done and ready for repairs/replacements:

 

I'll report back when I get the new eyelets installed.

Hopefully CCM is ditching these junk eyelets in their next gen skates! Otherwise I need to seriously consider custom orders, eyelets simply should not fail this regularly after 3-4 months use.

 

colins

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

Blademaster makes really good replacement brass eyelets. You might want to order those and then have a shoe repair or hockey repair shop put them in. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Nicholas G

[colins 246]

4 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Blademaster makes really good replacement brass eyelets. You might want to order those and then have a shoe repair or hockey repair shop put them in. 

 

Any idea on sizing? They have sizes #60 through #66 in the brass ones. Not sure what die sizes my repair shop has to be able to properly set these and not sure if I should just go with the largest size or something smaller.

https://blademaster.com/web/en/2606-eyelets

colins

 

[colins 246]

 

Update - a.k.a Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

I bought a cheap $70 grommet press off amazon and ordered some brass eyelets and washers from Blademaster. The only videos I could find on Youtube showed placing a washer on the bottom die in the press, and inserting the eyelet from the top of the eyelet hole. This would result in a poor quality roll of the eyelet barrel, with sharp edges on the inside of the skate. I watched some other videos of this particular machine in use for setting grommets, and it was done in reverse order - barrel and washer inserted from the bottom, and just the washer then placed on the top. The top die of this press is able to roll the small end of the barrel smoothly. Once I figured that out I was really pleased with the results.

I'll have to see how they hold up now to real world abuse. Can't be worse than the CCM stamped aluminum eyelets - and now I can monitor and replace these as needed before any major damage is incurred.

Pic of the machine which I mounted on some 4x4 posts to give me the clearance I needed to place the boot on it:

 

The eyelets and washers from blademaster. Size 265 which are quite long:

Eyelet and washer inserted in the eyelet holes. Another washer goes on top before pressing:

 

Finished eyelets after pressing:

 

And the inside:

 

 

colins

[flip12 714]

Looks amazing. It's a shame you have to do this to new skates, but glad for your sake that you have the chance to keep your son's skates going if the eyelets give him more trouble in the future. Hope they hold up for you though, they look sturdy.

[Cavs019 708]

Looks awesome- nice “bling” as well. 😃

Edited October 20, 2018 by Cavs019

[VegasHockey 1280]

Those are some excellent looking eyelets! @BelangerJS

[gosinger 122]

Very much looking forward to seeing how this holds up, might be worth buying for some repairs as-well 🙂

[colins 246]

 

Followup - only about 10 hours use so far, but the new eyelets are looking good. Real test will come in January when my son resumes his season after a broken ankle suffered in October.

Here's what the eyelets look like after about 10 hours use in the past couple weeks:

 

colins

[flip12 714]

Not just good workmanship, I like the look of the gold with the JetSpeed theme. They should do that standard. Also for durability's sake, but the look is very nice.

[stick9 890]

I saw some 70k's on sideline done up the same exact way. You may want to hit him up for royalties. 

[JGraz15 53]

Piggybacking here: I’ve always used Bauer skates but have been very interested in the RibCor line...how prevalent is this problem? I have heard of this before and is definitely concerning as I’ve never had this issue with any of my Bauer’s. 

[boo10 323]

5 hours ago, JGraz15 said:

Piggybacking here: I’ve always used Bauer skates but have been very interested in the RibCor line...how prevalent is this problem? I have heard of this before and is definitely concerning as I’ve never had this issue with any of my Bauer’s. 

I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. I believe @Colins had indicated that his son has hyperhidrosis, so the eyelets are subjected to excessive sweat.  Bauer skates are not immune to eyelet problems either.  My last two pairs of Vapors had eyelets tear out and laces rip through the boot.  The last pair were X70's that had less than 30 hours of icetime on them.